Series Thread: 2023 NBA Finals: Heat vs. Nuggets

[tlance]

Exaggerated.

Not saying it wasn't true and that Jordan didn't mistreat his teammates at times, but much of it is exaggerated by today's media to make LeBron look better.

No, it really isn’t.

It was drastically under reported during MJ’s era.

He was an asshole and a guy who didn’t play well with others until Phil got him to see that he needed to get more out of his teammates in order to win.

 

[msgkings322]

Exaggerated.

Not saying it wasn't true and that Jordan didn't mistreat his teammates at times, but much of it is exaggerated by today's media to make LeBron look better.

It's pretty well documented in lots of books and shows, including ones that predated LeBron like "The Jordan Rules"

 

[msgkings322]

Yeah, Phil’s talent is extremely underrated.

Phil would have won titles with KD, Kyrie and Harden.

And MJ and Kobe were not easy to play with. They never won titles with any other coach.

Don’t sleep on PJ. He was truly great. And the best part about Phil (at least early on) was that he was humble enough to know what he wasn’t great at and delegate to assistants.

He's part of my Mt Rushmore 4, for these reasons

 

[dtgold88]

Exaggerated.

Not saying it wasn't true and that Jordan didn't mistreat his teammates at times, but much of it is exaggerated by today's media to make LeBron look better.

By today's media? It's in the book The Jordan Rules. Guessing it's in the divorce decree he cheated on his wife.

 

[dtgold88]

teammates yes, I respect that he valued winning and wasn't going to put up with half assing it in practice. The wife, not so much.

It wasn't so much half assing it as guys just were not as good as he was or they made mistakes (which I'm sure he did as well, but what player is going to call him out for it?).

 

[dtgold88]

Krause pays the bills. If he wants him out, he's gone. Trying to save face at the 11th hour isn't a real effort.

He asked him to say....they were losing Pippen....things would be harder.....he bolted. He didn't take another position until he could coach arguably the top 2 players in the league.

Those are the only facts.....well, I guess you could call Bryant/O'Neal being top 2 players opinion.

 

[dtgold88]

Yeah, Phil’s talent is extremely underrated.

Phil would have won titles with KD, Kyrie and Harden.

And MJ and Kobe were not easy to play with. They never won titles with any other coach.

Don’t sleep on PJ. He was truly great. And the best part about Phil (at least early on) was that he was humble enough to know what he wasn’t great at and delegate to assistants.

all good points, but when it was going to get hard he walked away and never took a truly challenging position where it would not be so easy to at least contend. True he deserves props for going as far as he did as often as he did.

 

[dtgold88]

It's pretty well documented in lots of books and shows, including ones that predated LeBron like "The Jordan Rules"

ninja'd

 

[bksballer89]

 

[dtgold88]

That's true, but I would not classify that first example as a "wide open" 3. Bottom one a better example.

 

[msgkings322]

ninja'd

Not to mention, Jordan doesn't exactly push back on those stories. He's pretty proud of his rep as that guy.

 

[trojanfan12]

He asked him to say....they were losing Pippen....things would be harder.....he bolted. He didn't take another position until he could coach arguably the top 2 players in the league.

Those are the only facts.....well, I guess you could call Bryant/O'Neal being top 2 players opinion.

It's facts without context.

Yes, he asked him to stay after basically treating him poorly the whole time he was there and saying he wouldn't be bringing him back no matter what they did. If memory serves, the entire team knew going into that final season that was going to be it.

What Krause did would be like a wife telling her husband to move out of the house, then asking him to stay when she realizes she can't afford the mortgage without him.

Can't really blame Phil for saying No to that.

Also, your assertion that he "didn't take another position until he could coach arguably the top 2 players in the league" lacks context.

His last year with the Bulls was 1998 and he became the Lakers coach in 1999. So, it's not like he sat around for 3-4 years turning down jobs until the Lakers called. If they weren't first to contact him, they were among them.

 

[dtgold88]

It's facts without context.

Yes, he asked him to stay after basically treating him poorly the whole time he was there and saying he wouldn't be bringing him back no matter what they did. If memory serves, the entire team knew going into that final season that was going to be it.

What Krause did would be like a wife telling her husband to move out of the house, then asking him to stay when she realizes she can't afford the mortgage without him.

Can't really blame Phil for saying No to that.

Also, your assertion that he "didn't take another position until he could coach arguably the top 2 players in the league" lacks context.

His last year with the Bulls was 1998 and he became the Lakers coach in 1999. So, it's not like he sat around for 3-4 years turning down jobs until the Lakers called. If they weren't first to contact him, they were among them.

some good points, but not buying the wife analogy. In addition, few in the organization really liked Krause so hard to believe his opinion meant so much to Phiilip. Not very Zen-ish if it did. You think if he knew they were running it back with everyone Phillip still goes?

Extremely hard to believe no one called him and offered him a job the year he sat out.

 

[tlance]

all good points, but when it was going to get hard he walked away and never took a truly challenging position where it would not be so easy to at least contend. True he deserves props for going as far as he did as often as he did.

Eh.

So what?

What to coach intentionally puts themselves in bad situations?

Coaches tend to take the best job available to them. One where they think they can succeed.

Because if they don’t succeed they get fired. Whether it was their fault or not.

 

[tlance]

some good points, but not buying the wife analogy. In addition, few in the organization really liked Krause so hard to believe his opinion meant so much to Phiilip. Not very Zen-ish if it did. You think if he knew they were running it back with everyone Phillip still goes?

Extremely hard to believe no one called him and offered him a job the year he sat out.

You know who listened to Krause?

Reinsdorf.

It was a different era back then. Players didn’t run the league.

Why would Phil stay in a job where his direct boss didn’t want him there?

Most people wouldn’t want to work in that environment.

And so what if he took a year off?

You are dinging him for really petty stuff while assuming that MJ, Kobe, Shaq and Pippen would have still achieved similar success with another coach because they were that great.

I don’t assume that.

Coaching talent with huge egos is very hard.

 

[trojanfan12]

some good points, but not buying the wife analogy. In addition, few in the organization really liked Krause so hard to believe his opinion meant so much to Phiilip. Not very Zen-ish if it did. You think if he knew they were running it back with everyone Phillip still goes?

Extremely hard to believe no one called him and offered him a job the year he sat out.

Krause asked him back for 1 year to coach a stripped down team while working with someone (Krause) who had treated him like crap and whom he didn't like. No one with options is sticking around for that.

Also, as any coach would do, he waited for the best possible situation. Nothing wrong with that.

You're criticizing him for doing what any coach with options would do.

 

[trojanfight]

 

[bksballer89]

Jokic shot 8-18 with Bam as primary defender in game 2

 

[bksballer89]

SAS continuing to act like Bam is some role player is hilarious

 

[Picklerick 2.0]

Plus they’re facing an 8 seed. Who has less talent than them.

It’s as good as it gets

Miami is an 8 seed because of injuries and they actually play horribly against bad teams but light it up against the top tier. It's funny because you can almost make a living by betting on them to lose to teams with a worse record but beat better record teams this year. They are a bizzare anomaly.