Series Thread: 2023 NBA Finals: Heat vs. Nuggets

[Shane_O_Mac812]

Holy shit bro lol

*backs away slowly*

like I said, I know I'm biased, but unless you understand my childhood, you won't get it and it would just sound crazy as it obviously did. Sorry to freak ya out.

 

[trojanfan12]

I'm aware I'm biased, I was 5 when MJ entered the league. Watched every game riveted. Literally cried when he retired. The man changed my life and possibly saved it as well. This man will forever be the greatest athlete I've ever watched in any sport due to the influence he had on me growing up and setting my own life straight as I got older. How some people say a certain musician wrote a song that saved or changed their life, MJ was that for me. He literally can walk on water in my eyes. I know it's childish and crazy, but you will never hear me utter a bad word about him.

That's not childish or crazy, imo. Folks find inspiration all kinds of places.

But, someone can not be the GOAT and still inspire people and change their lives.

No one considers Kobe the GOAT, but before he passed, he was doing a lot to promote the women's game and I've heard a few great female players talk about how he inspired them.

Most still consider MJ the GOAT, but Lebron has definitely entered the discussion and Kareem has been getting some run in the discussion as well.

 

[shopson67]

like I said, I know I'm biased, but unless you understand my childhood, you won't get it and it would just sound crazy as it obviously did. Sorry to freak ya out.

No need. Everyone has their heroes. Magic was mine (for the NBA), but didn't impact me to that level.

 

[shopson67]

That's not childish or crazy, imo. Folks find inspiration all kinds of places.

But, someone can not be the GOAT and still inspire people and change their lives.

No one considers Kobe the GOAT, but before he passed, he was doing a lot to promote the women's game and I've heard a few great female players talk about how he inspired them.

Most still consider MJ the GOAT, but Lebron has definitely entered the discussion and Kareem has been getting some run in the discussion as well.

NO WAY! It's all about WEMBY now!

 

[Shane_O_Mac812]

That's not childish or crazy, imo. Folks find inspiration all kinds of places.

But, someone can not be the GOAT and still inspire people and change their lives.

No one considers Kobe the GOAT, but before he passed, he was doing a lot to promote the women's game and I've heard a few great female players talk about how he inspired them.

Most still consider MJ the GOAT, but Lebron has definitely entered the discussion and Kareem has been getting some run in the discussion as well.

Don't get me wrong, I hate Lebron with a passion, but I have him #4 all time. MJ, Magic, Kareem are my top 3. I acknowledge his greatness at the game for sure though. His personality is what kills it for me supporting him. I just read an article today on CBS Sports about how he and Kyrie are hijacking the attention to the finals to themselves and that was exactly what their intention was.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

Stating MJ isn't the undisputed GOAT is showing even less value. He is and will always be the GOAT. Let's say a rookie gets drafted this year and has a 15 year career avg. 40/20/15 for his career and wins 15 titles, one for every year he plays, that guy still doesn't pass MJ. He is literally unpassable. No one will ever have the impact or change the world of sports like he did. All this GOAT debate only uses his stats and titles for the debate when he is so much more than the sport itself.

Completely natural.

 

[dtgold88]

If you're treating the Last Dance as purely factual, then we're going to have issues. Pippen was likely going. Krause berated Phil endlessly, taking shots at him whenever he could. Did he try to reverse field at the very end? Maybe, but who goes back to a relationship like that?

Odd you'd make that first comment when it's exactly what you are doing....as long as it supports your narrative. I'd say the shots between Phillip and Krause were going both ways. I doubt Phillip cared much about what Krause thought, especially since he knew he had the backing of MJ (and likely the other players).

I also happen to agree Pippen was gone...so as I said it was going to be harder, and he walked. Not really debatable. Only went back into coaching to coach arguably the 2 best in the sport.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

We're a better team than Miami. Not a debate.

As long as we play our game (we didn't in Game 2), we're going to win this in five. See Spurs in 2014...

 

[shopson67]

I just read an article today on CBS Sports about how he and Kyrie are hijacking the attention to the finals to themselves and that was exactly what their intention was.

That's all subjective though. I've read other things that say it was either Kyrie or the Mavs starting the rumor out of anger over the Lakers rumors (which Kyrie probably started lol).

One thing is for sure; Malone is seething either way.

 

[shopson67]

Odd you'd make that first comment when it's exactly what you are doing....as long as it supports your narrative. I'd say the shots between Phillip and Krause were going both ways. I doubt Phillip cared much about what Krause thought, especially since he knew he had the backing of MJ (and likely the other players).

I also happen to agree Pippen was gone...so as I said it was going to be harder, and he walked. Not really debatable. Only went back into coaching to coach arguably the 2 best in the sport.

I'm not basing it on the Last Dance. I'm basing it on memory and actual occurrences. He didn't walk over Pippen, he walked due to the relationship (or lack thereof) with Krause, and largely if not all due to Krause's actions. Krause's actions also then led to MJ departing.

 

[dtgold88]

I'd put Phil above Steve but not by a whole lot. Phil did win a couple titles at the end there (09 and 10) without overwhelming talent...Kobe was the only superstar.

That is true.....though Kerr did win one last year with Curry as his only superstar. Not to take away from curry, but I'd put Kobe ahead of him and probably Pau as the better #2. Might be someone else we could put in there as the 4th to at least consider but not coming to mind.

 

[dtgold88]

I think it would depend.

He had some serious back issues that made travel and being on the bench for games more and more difficult. Also, he had already won 11 titles as a coach...so winning as an executive would have been another feather in his cap. I think he'd have been good with that.

Having said that, if he felt the coach wasn't showing he could get the job done, yeah...he likely takes over.

Msg mentioned the health issues, too, and that's a very good point and possible deterrent.

 

[dtgold88]

Don't get me wrong, I hate Lebron with a passion, but I have him #4 all time. MJ, Magic, Kareem are my top 3. I acknowledge his greatness at the game for sure though. His personality is what kills it for me supporting him. I just read an article today on CBS Sports about how he and Kyrie are hijacking the attention to the finals to themselves and that was exactly what their intention was.

I can buy Lebron wants more attention.....but guessing you are OK with how MJ treated some of his teammates and his wife?

Oops...forgot, you even said you cannot say anything bad about the guy. Never mind.

 

[Shane_O_Mac812]

I can buy Lebron wants more attention.....but guessing you are OK with how MJ treated some of his teammates and his wife?

teammates yes, I respect that he valued winning and wasn't going to put up with half assing it in practice. The wife, not so much.

 

[dtgold88]

I'm not basing it on the Last Dance. I'm basing it on memory and actual occurrences. He didn't walk over Pippen, he walked due to the relationship (or lack thereof) with Krause, and largely if not all due to Krause's actions. Krause's actions also then led to MJ departing.

OK, and I'm saying why would he really care all that much about Krause when he knew he had the support of that MJ fellow as well as likely the rest of the team and others in the FO?

Mr. Zen really makes a decision like that based on the opinion of 1 guy? Once again, all we really know is Pippen was leaving, it was going to be harder and he left.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

I can buy Lebron wants more attention.....but guessing you are OK with how MJ treated some of his teammates and his wife?

Oops...forgot, you even said you cannot say anything bad about the guy. Never mind.

Exaggerated.

Not saying it wasn't true and that Jordan didn't mistreat his teammates at times, but much of it is exaggerated by today's media to make LeBron look better.

 

[shopson67]

OK, and I'm saying why would he really care all that much about Krause when he knew he had the support of that MJ fellow as well as likely the rest of the team and others in the FO?

Mr. Zen really makes a decision like that based on the opinion of 1 guy? Once again, all we really know is Pippen was leaving, it was going to be harder and he left.

Krause pays the bills. If he wants him out, he's gone. Trying to save face at the 11th hour isn't a real effort.

 

[shopson67]

Exaggerated.

Not saying it wasn't true and that Jordan didn't mistreat his teammates at times, but much of it is exaggerated by today's media to make LeBron look better.

It's not exaggerated that Jordan punched his teammate.

 

[tlance]

MJ didn't buy into the idea of needing his teammates to win titles until he was coached by Phil.

Shaq and Kobe were alternating getting bounced out of the playoffs by the Jazz and Spurs until Phil took over.

Then he got the Kobe/Pau Lakers to the finals 3 times winning 2 more titles.

With the exception of Shaq, who did it once...none of those stars won a title without him.

I don't think Phil was all that great with X's and O's. In fact, the offense he was famous for wasn't even his offense. It was Tex Winters' offense.

But I don't think anyone in league history has been better at managing enormous ego's than Phil.

Yeah, Phil’s talent is extremely underrated.

Phil would have won titles with KD, Kyrie and Harden.

And MJ and Kobe were not easy to play with. They never won titles with any other coach.

Don’t sleep on PJ. He was truly great. And the best part about Phil (at least early on) was that he was humble enough to know what he wasn’t great at and delegate to assistants.

 

[tlance]

Stating MJ isn't the undisputed GOAT is showing even less value. He is and will always be the GOAT. Let's say a rookie gets drafted this year and has a 15 year career avg. 40/20/15 for his career and wins 15 titles, one for every year he plays, that guy still doesn't pass MJ. He is literally unpassable. No one will ever have the impact or change the world of sports like he did. All this GOAT debate only uses his stats and titles for the debate when he is so much more than the sport itself.

This is post of the year dumb right here.

Congrats.