Please Just Go Back to a 4-3 Carroll...

[Sharkonabicycle]

Admit your diversity hire failed... and please just go back to what worked... knock it off wit this 3-4 bullshit. If we go in with this stupid 2-4-5 bullshit or a 3-4-4 bullshit we're going to break the record in the NFL for most points/yards allowed.

 

[Wolvie]

If anything the league is a 4-2-5 these days. Speed wins

 

[Screamin12th]

If anything the league is a 4-2-5 these days. Speed wins

When the Hawks were as 4-3 team they played a ton of 5-2 concepts, bear front stuff.

 

[Warden]

Right now we only have 3 DTs on the team. Jones, Reed, and Mone

 

[Wolvie]

If we could find one of those DT/CB tweener types, I feel like we'd be unstoppable

 

[Screamin12th]

If we could find one of those DT/CB tweener types, I feel like we'd be unstoppable

LOL 6 foot 4 270 pound CB running a 4.45 40 and a 39 inch vert with 38 on the bench press LMAO!

 

[Wolvie]

LOL 6 foot 4 270 pound CB running a 4.45 40 and a 39 inch vert with 38 on the bench press LMAO!

Exactly, any of those guys left?!?

 

[Screamin12th]

Exactly, any of those guys left?!?

If there was i would have him play RB, TE, LB, DE, Rush DT and SS LMAO!

 

[flyerhawk]

Your obsession with calling Clint Hurtt a diversity hire is just freaking weird.

Derrick Hall would suggest they aren't planning on going back to a 4-3.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Your obsession with calling Clint Hurtt a diversity hire is just freaking weird.

Derrick Hall would suggest they aren't planning on going back to a 4-3.

Yeah I don't think the Seahawks are returning to the 4-3 this year. That was mostly based on Sherman making a comment that was vague at best.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yeah I don't think the Seahawks are returning to the 4-3 this year. That was mostly based on Sherman making a comment that was vague at best.

I also think that the difference between 3-4 and 4-3 isn't that big these days. Is Taylor a DE or a LB? Does it matter what you call him?

 

[Warden]

Need to draft a true nose tackle in this draft

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I also think that the difference between 3-4 and 4-3 isn't that big these days. Is Taylor a DE or a LB? Does it matter what you call him?

It's pretty big... you're running one less down lineman (even in Carroll's hybrid/elephant defense it was still a guy at the line just standing up) and require two very solid EDGE rushers who are asked to COVER as well along with two competent ILBs who can defend the rush/blitz/cover... you're asking WAY more of your guys than a traditional 4-3 or elephant style defense.

Seeing how Seattle went to that stupid 2-4-5 bullshit last year which is the first I've ever seen them do that, it was truly baffling and offenses riddled with injuries and backups, laughed at us.

Taylor/Mafe are technically very much Hybrid 4-3 DEs... sure it can translate to a 3-4, but they're not coverage 3-4 OLBs which was clearly evident last year. Mafe would be FAR better suited as a 4-3 DE, so would Hall.. And the traditional SLB/WLB is not the same as a 3-4 OLB... the tasks of a 4-3 OLB (coverage/run gaps) is not the same as a 3-4 OLB (coverage/run gaps - albeit not at the same level and blitz, because your pressure has to come from their position or the ILB).

The advantages to a 3-4 is it's confusing for QBs and offenses to deal with. Any one of the linebackers can come. It's a chess game. And teams that execute it well frustrate the hell out of QBs that can't deal with it. The disadvantage is you're asking an OLB to be effectively a jack of all trades... they are generally going to be average/slightly above in all areas (rush/pass defense and pass pressure) as opposed to a 4-3 OLB who will be VERY solid and well above average or elite (if lucky to get the guy) in 2 of those areas.

To your other post: Yah the diversity hire is a running joke that I've worn out (mostly in reference to the stupid ass extra 3rd round pick you get for signing a black guy lol). I need to let it go.

 

[flyerhawk]

It's pretty big... you're running one less down lineman (even in Carroll's hybrid/elephant defense it was still a guy at the line just standing up) and require two very solid EDGE rushers who are asked to COVER as well along with two competent ILBs who can defend the rush/blitz/cover... you're asking WAY more of your guys than a traditional 4-3 or elephant style defense.

Seeing how Seattle went to that stupid 2-4-5 bullshit last year which is the first I've ever seen them do that, it was truly baffling and offenses riddled with injuries and backups, laughed at us.

Taylor/Mafe are technically very much Hybrid 4-3 DEs... sure it can translate to a 3-4, but they're not coverage 3-4 OLBs which was clearly evident last year. Mafe would be FAR better suited as a 4-3 DE, so would Hall.. And the traditional SLB/WLB is not the same as a 3-4 OLB... the tasks of a 4-3 OLB (coverage/run gaps) is not the same as a 3-4 OLB (coverage/run gaps - albeit not at the same level and blitz, because your pressure has to come from their position or the ILB).

The advantages to a 3-4 is it's confusing for QBs and offenses to deal with. Any one of the linebackers can come. It's a chess game. And teams that execute it well frustrate the hell out of QBs that can't deal with it. The disadvantage is you're asking an OLB to be effectively a jack of all trades... they are generally going to be average/slightly above in all areas (rush/pass defense and pass pressure) as opposed to a 4-3 OLB who will be VERY solid and well above average or elite (if lucky to get the guy) in 2 of those areas.

To your other post: Yah the diversity hire is a running joke that I've worn out (mostly in reference to the stupid ass extra 3rd round pick you get for signing a black guy lol). I need to let it go.

But ultimately the difference between 4-3 and 3-4 is your personnel. If you have Taylor/Mafe as a 4-3 DE or a 3-4 LB and the other players remain the same, their responsibilities are STILL the same if they are a down lineman or upright.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

But ultimately the difference between 4-3 and 3-4 is your personnel. If you have Taylor/Mafe as a 4-3 DE or a 3-4 LB and the other players remain the same, their responsibilities are STILL the same if they are a down lineman or upright.

I would disagree. Your responsibilities as a 4-3 DL is to stop the run and rush the passer and identify either of those. Your responsibility as a 3-4 OLB is to blitz, cover, or defend the run based on the scheme your defense is running which can be audibled by the defensive captain.

Saying to Mafe: "Hey you're a 4-3 end, your goal is to stop the run or pass, it's up to you to identify that, but that's it." Is VERY different from saying, "Hey, based on what our defense calls you are going to be asked to drop in coverage, maybe blitz, or maybe stop the run. Stay tuned."

One is very different from the other.

 

[flyerhawk]

I would disagree. Your responsibilities as a 4-3 DL is to stop the run and rush the passer and identify either of those. Your responsibility as a 3-4 OLB is to blitz, cover, or defend the run based on the scheme your defense is running which can be audibled by the defensive captain.

Saying to Mafe: "Hey you're a 4-3 end, your goal is to stop the run or pass, it's up to you to identify that, but that's it." Is VERY different from saying, "Hey, based on what our defense calls you are going to be asked to drop in coverage, maybe blitz, or maybe stop the run. Stay tuned."

One is very different from the other.

3-4 defenses create more complexity which requires the linebackers to do more reads than a traditional DE might do. But they still need to defend the run and the pass and drop back into coverage sometimes.

The biggest challenge with running a 3-4 is that you tend to need to have bigger linemen and bigger interior linebackers. Tough for a guy like Brooks to play as an interior LB in a 3-4.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

3-4 defenses create more complexity which requires the linebackers to do more reads than a traditional DE might do. But they still need to defend the run and the pass and drop back into coverage sometimes.

The biggest challenge with running a 3-4 is that you tend to need to have bigger linemen and bigger interior linebackers. Tough for a guy like Brooks to play as an interior LB in a 3-4.

Traditional 4-3 DEs are not dropping into coverage. When I saw Al Woods dropping into coverage in 2021 I nearly had a brain aneurysm (yes I know he was a DT).

Traditional 3-4 DEs are also not dropping into coverage, they're playing the run or pass.

Brooks is a big ILB... he's around 6'0" and 240 lbs... pound for height he's plenty suitable to play in a 3-4 ILB position... Jerrod Mayo was 6'1 250 lbs.. about the same. Ray Lewis was also about the same... (3% difference). The difference is Lewis/Mayo and many other great 3-4 ILBs didn't suck at coverage, they were pretty decent on it... Brooks just looks lost whenever it's a pass play... I'm sorry, I've watched the games and the guy just mentally can't keep up with how the play is developing.

Brooks was never that great to begin with even when we ran a 4-3 and Wagner was still here. He never lit anything up. He was always a liability in coverage.. it's not the scheme switch that changed him. Now I get he wasn't going to bench a future HOFer in Wagner, but he certainly never looked promising out of the gates.

 

[flyerhawk]

Traditional 4-3 DEs are not dropping into coverage. When I saw Al Woods dropping into coverage in 2021 I nearly had a brain aneurysm (yes I know he was a DT).

Traditional 3-4 DEs are also not dropping into coverage, they're playing the run or pass.

4-3 DEs drop into coverage pretty regularly. Nwosu had the most coverage snaps of any Seahawk edge rusher. About 100. Lorenzo Carter led all edge rushers with about 123.

Those numbers pale compared to traditional linebackers who can drop into coverage 600 or 700 times in a season.

But that's might point. Nwosu is a pass rusher. He was listed as a LB in our defense last year because in a 3-4 the edge rushers are linebackers. But their job is largely the same.

Brooks is a big ILB... he's around 6'0" and 240 lbs... pound for height he's plenty suitable to play in a 3-4 ILB position... Jerrod Mayo was 6'1 250 lbs.. about the same. Ray Lewis was also about the same... (3% difference). The difference is Lewis/Mayo and many other great 3-4 ILBs didn't suck at coverage, they were pretty decent on it... Brooks just looks lost whenever it's a pass play... I'm sorry, I've watched the games and the guy just mentally can't keep up with how the play is developing.

Brooks was never that great to begin with even when we ran a 4-3 and Wagner was still here. He never lit anything up. He was always a liability in coverage.. it's not the scheme switch that changed him. Now I get he wasn't going to bench a future HOFer in Wagner, but he certainly never looked promising out of the gates.

Brooks bulked up to 240 maybe but he's a speed guy. He's not the kind of guy that can taken on a guard. Not that most LBs can but at least a guy like Bobby can sometimes shed them rather than get tossed like a doll.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Admit your diversity hire failed... and please just go back to what worked... knock it off wit this 3-4 bullshit. If we go in with this stupid 2-4-5 bullshit or a 3-4-4 bullshit we're going to break the record in the NFL for most points/yards allowed.

Yeah, 4-3 is better, just use the 3-4 in certain passing downs when you want extra pass coverage…

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

4-3 DEs drop into coverage pretty regularly. Nwosu had the most coverage snaps of any Seahawk edge rusher. About 100. Lorenzo Carter led all edge rushers with about 123.

Those numbers pale compared to traditional linebackers who can drop into coverage 600 or 700 times in a season.

But that's might point. Nwosu is a pass rusher. He was listed as a LB in our defense last year because in a 3-4 the edge rushers are linebackers. But their job is largely the same.



Brooks bulked up to 240 maybe but he's a speed guy. He's not the kind of guy that can taken on a guard. Not that most LBs can but at least a guy like Bobby can sometimes shed them rather than get tossed like a doll.

Nowsu should've dropped into coverage. He was a 3-4 backer in San Angeles which is my whole point... their job is NOT the same as a 4-3 edge rusher, I don't understand what you're on about regarding this. A 4-3 EDGE rusher is not asked to drop into coverage like a 3-4 linebacker. It made 100% sense Nwosu dropped into coverage quite a bit because he was the only fuckin' person in the linebacker crew that understood how the fuck to do it.