Qb Mariota

[Stymietee]

The elite QBs are obviously great and the stinkers are terrible. However, for most QBs, their success is largely based on their surroundings and the situation they are placed in. Mariota, if he can stay healthy, can have success in the NFL as a starter. I think it would be a good move by the WFT

Visualizations of sucess on this board over the years have been pointed at being competitive or making the playoffs. There are no indications that this team under its present owner have anything more at heart either. Both being competitive and making the playoffs are laudable goals, but championship teams are always singularly focused on one ultimate goal.. to have other teams aiming to be competitive with them because they are built to be SB champions. A QB who "can have success in the NFL as a starter" means many things depending on what that team defines as "success." Having one who can win SB's is an entirely different thing.

 

[Breed]

By him not sucking, you guys win.

You’d win the division again if he is your starter. Easily imo. No additional salary needed. No spending of draft capital. Just going with what you’ve got.

I agree with what you've posted after your first sentence, If AS was the Skins starter for the 2021 season. I think chances are good that he'd lead them to a division title. I believe he's the only QB in the Snyder era with a career winning W/L record which in and of itself is damn impressive. The man apparently is Snyder-proof and I think that's a necessity for any QB if they're to be successful for the Skins.

Here are the issues with AS as starter though. He has sucked. I don't know what it is, but the man has an uncanny ability to do just enough it seems for the Skins to get over the hump in games, but make no mistake, its been ugly. Like U G L Y you ain't got no alibi ugly.

In the 6 games he started this year the Skins are 5-1 and some of his stats read like this 1220 total passing yards or 203 passing yards per game. (He had a game against Det where he passed for almost a 1/3 of that, 390 yards. Interestingly enough that was also the only loss of his 6 starts) A whopping ypa of 5.65 yards and 6 TDs with 5 INTs over those 6 games. I personally can live with ugly long as the Skins are winning.

The bigger issue I'm afraid though is injury. Alex is 10-5 as the Skins starting QB which ain't bad. But its taken 3 seasons worth of play for him to get in those 15 games which ain't good. His latest injury was a calf issue on the leg he broke in 2018. It forced him to leave a game at halftime which he had started, miss the 2 following games and came back and started and played a game 3 weeks later where he clearly couldn't run because of the calf. He then missed the following week's game in the playoffs.

At this point I'm not sure and I'm certainly not confident that Alex can play a full 16 game season. It seems like 90% of the Skins faithful hope he retires and just goes away. As the Skins aren't going to make a push to acquire Deshaun Watson I'm not one of those 90%. I want his to do all he can to get healthy and stay healthy and I'll be pullin like hell for him to emerge as the Skins starter in 2021. But there has to be a back up plan in place as well. They can't stand pat with what they have. They don't have to spend draft capital in a trade or try to get someone via FA with a big contract offer. But they can't go into 2021 with Kyle Allen, Taylor Heinicke and Alex. At least I don't think so. We'll see soon enough I guess.

 

[Stymietee]

I agree with what you've posted after your first sentence, If AS was the Skins starter for the 2021 season. I think chances are good that he'd lead them to a division title. I believe he's the only QB in the Snyder era with a career winning W/L record which in and of itself is damn impressive. The man apparently is Snyder-proof and I think that's a necessity for any QB if they're to be successful for the Skins.

Here are the issues with AS as starter though. He has sucked. I don't know what it is, but the man has an uncanny ability to do just enough it seems for the Skins to get over the hump in games, but make no mistake, its been ugly. Like U G L Y you ain't got no alibi ugly.

In the 6 games he started this year the Skins are 5-1 and some of his stats read like this 1220 total passing yards or 203 passing yards per game. (He had a game against Det where he passed for almost a 1/3 of that, 390 yards. Interestingly enough that was also the only loss of his 6 starts) A whopping ypa of 5.65 yards and 6 TDs with 5 INTs over those 6 games. I personally can live with ugly long as the Skins are winning.

The bigger issue I'm afraid though is injury. Alex is 10-5 as the Skins starting QB which ain't bad. But its taken 3 seasons worth of play for him to get in those 15 games which ain't good. His latest injury was a calf issue on the leg he broke in 2018. It forced him to leave a game at halftime which he had started, miss the 2 following games and came back and started and played a game 3 weeks later where he clearly couldn't run because of the calf. He then missed the following week's game in the playoffs.

At this point I'm not sure and I'm certainly not confident that Alex can play a full 16 game season. It seems like 90% of the Skins faithful hope he retires and just goes away. As the Skins aren't going to make a push to acquire Deshaun Watson I'm not one of those 90%. I want his to do all he can to get healthy and stay healthy and I'll be pullin like hell for him to emerge as the Skins starter in 2021. But there has to be a back up plan in place as well. They can't stand pat with what they have. They don't have to spend draft capital in a trade or try to get someone via FA with a big contract offer. But they can't go into 2021 with Kyle Allen, Taylor Heinicke and Alex. At least I don't think so. We'll see soon enough I guess.

Well done @Breed, I believe that this has to be the most indepth and accurate look at Alex Smith and reasons why the current QB situation cannot stand.

 

[Breed]

Well done @Breed, I believe that this has to be the most indepth and accurate look at Alex Smith and reasons why the current QB situation cannot stand.

Yeah, at this point the Skins simply can't put all their eggs in the Alex, Allen, Heinicke basket. Alex's health n the unknown factors of Heiney n Allen are simply too great.

 

[Stymietee]

Yeah, at this point the Skins simply can't put all their eggs in the Alex, Allen, Heinicke basket. Alex's health n the unknown factors of Heiney n Allen are simply too great.

Hopefully, sooner than later this team will settle their long running QB vacancy. I completely agree that the disability claims agents Smith, Allen, and Heinicke are too problematic.

 

[j_y19]

Yeah, at this point the Skins simply can't put all their eggs in the Alex, Allen, Heinicke basket. Alex's health n the unknown factors of Heiney n Allen are simply too great.

So what do they do? It doesn't appear Watson is a real alternative. Does Mariotta make our situation any better? I'm not so sure. I really don't see a viable alternative this year at this point in time that is worth the cost.

Alex is done. He just can't physically do it anymore. We need to do him a favor and tell him so. I think we need to be aggressive in FA and draft to fill our gaping holes. Make the team around Allen/Heinicke/??? as good a we can so that they don't have to do too much. Keep all our draft capital and current stars and build everything else.

 

[Stymietee]

So what do they do? It doesn't appear Watson is a real alternative. Does Mariotta make our situation any better? I'm not so sure. I really don't see a viable alternative this year at this point in time that is worth the cost.

Alex is done. He just can't physically do it anymore. We need to do him a favor and tell him so. I think we need to be aggressive in FA and draft to fill our gaping holes. Make the team around Allen/Heinicke/??? as good a we can so that they don't have to do too much. Keep all our draft capital and current stars and build everything else.

Therein lies the constant conumdrum and a continued repetition of this same pattern year after year, after year. What does it ever get this organization beyond primarily selecting somewhere in the middle of the draft order? Here is the record that Dan Snyder's teams have posted since he took over ownership.



139-180-1: The team record since Snyder took over the team in 1999. Washington never had more than 10 regular-season wins during that span. 2: The number of playoff wins the Redskins have had over the past 20 years. Washington’s last postseason victory was a 17-10 win over the Buccaneers on Jan. 7, 2006.


...And the draft selection slots since during the same time frame.

 

[Stymietee]

Four 1st round QB's taken since 1999 and none of them worked out! There seems to be a pattern there and one that doesn't seem close to changing in the near future. Isn't it time to break that constant failure with a new effort that arises from an entirely different way to get your long term QB?

 

[Breed]

@j_y19

I heard somewhere that 1st rd draft choices only work out 52% of the time. I can't say yay or nay on that percentage as I don't know what the benchmark is for working out. But if its true that Alex simply can't handle the physical demands of being an NFL QB anymore. I really can't say what the Skins should do. Personally I'm all in on going after Watson, but that looks less n less likely every day. So..........with that said. I guess my hopes are with Taylor Heinicke being the real deal, but even with that. He was hurt on his TD run against Tampa Bay and given the way he seems to play and his size or in this instance, lack thereof, at 6'1" 210 pounds. I'm not sure he makes it through a season.

Far as MM goes. I don't know all I can say is I'm not impressed by him, but I do realize he's never really been in a real stable situation, worked with a lotta talent or had a system tailored to his strengths. He to though seems to be suspect when it comes to injury and getting hurt.

I really don't see the purpose either is trading for another QB that's pretty much a lateral move like a Darnold for instance. I know people say that would be just a bridge move, but my response to that would be a bridge to what? I don't believe the Skins are a QB away from contending for Super Bowl titles, but they'd be a helleva lot closer with a legit NFL QB. And I think other positions would be easier to fill via the draft and FA than QB would.

 

[skinsdad62]

Of course that's an option, the article mentions that, but you also don't want to lock yourself into a bad situation in which you're overpaying a backup starter monies, because you were desperate to get someone to be that starter.

i think MM has been a starter the vast majority of his career . i dont get why he is referred to as a BU strictly

 

[skinsdad62]

Visualizations of sucess on this board over the years have been pointed at being competitive or making the playoffs. There are no indications that this team under its present owner have anything more at heart either. Both being competitive and making the playoffs are laudable goals, but championship teams are always singularly focused on one ultimate goal.. to have other teams aiming to be competitive with them because they are built to be SB champions. A QB who "can have success in the NFL as a starter" means many things depending on what that team defines as "success." Having one who can win SB's is an entirely different thing.

how do you realistically call yourself a superbowl type team when you are a 7 win loser ? we arent , but a borderline 500 team at best . the team needs to take the next step and that is actually being a winning team

 

[skinsdad62]

Four 1st round QB's taken since 1999 and none of them worked out! There seems to be a pattern there and one that doesn't seem close to changing in the near future. Isn't it time to break that constant failure with a new effort that arises from an entirely different way to get your long term QB?

didnt RR draft cam ? didnt cam get them to a superbowl ? wasnt Cam a decent qb before injuries started piling up affecting his arm ?

we had brad johnson who took the vikings to a superbowl . we had KC but these guys werent sexy enough . we had rich gannon who was in the same superbowl as johnson , we had trent green but again not sexy enough

we have had 4 non elite guys at qb take us to 5 superbowls

the issue is we have an owner who wants sexy over performance and we have a fan base that is just as bad .

we havent had a complete team since 91

yes try for a qb but if it doesnt happen this year then go to the next

 

[Sportster 72]

@j_y19

I heard somewhere that 1st rd draft choices only work out 52% of the time. I can't say yay or nay on that percentage as I don't know what the benchmark is for working out. But if its true that Alex simply can't handle the physical demands of being an NFL QB anymore. I really can't say what the Skins should do. Personally I'm all in on going after Watson, but that looks less n less likely every day. So..........with that said. I guess my hopes are with Taylor Heinicke being the real deal, but even with that. He was hurt on his TD run against Tampa Bay and given the way he seems to play and his size or in this instance, lack thereof, at 6'1" 210 pounds. I'm not sure he makes it through a season.

Far as MM goes. I don't know all I can say is I'm not impressed by him, but I do realize he's never really been in a real stable situation, worked with a lotta talent or had a system tailored to his strengths. He to though seems to be suspect when it comes to injury and getting hurt.

I really don't see the purpose either is trading for another QB that's pretty much a lateral move like a Darnold for instance. I know people say that would be just a bridge move, but my response to that would be a bridge to what? I don't believe the Skins are a QB away from contending for Super Bowl titles, but they'd be a helleva lot closer with a legit NFL QB. And I think other positions would be easier to fill via the draft and FA than QB would.

Pretty much right on.

Watson or Stafford could have made a difference but at great cost. Stafford is a lot older so pressure to win now would be greater. Watson is still very young with tons of potential. You'd have to give up a shit ton for him but in three years you might be close. Right now he is not Brady, Brees, Rogers etc. but close.

Getting a Carr or Mariotta would be ummm ... interesting. As you said not sure it would be a great upgrade. Just have to wait and see.

We have only seen a little of Allen and Heinicke so way too soon to say they have it or don't. But I think middling QBs at best.

They can't keep the entire DLine together for much more than a year or two. I'd really like to see the WTF improve at LBer. White and Barrett were awesome in the SB. I really like Curl. I would keep Young and Sweat. Any DT is available. Keeping Del Rio would be huge in my book.

 

[Stymietee]

i think MM has been a starter the vast majority of his career . i dont get why he is referred to as a BU strictly

That is what he's been in a what have you done for me lately league.

 

[Stymietee]

how do you realistically call yourself a superbowl type team when you are a 7 win loser ? we arent , but a borderline 500 team at best . the team needs to take the next step and that is actually being a winning team

If you're Washington since 1999, you don't call yourself a SB type team, that's the point. The difference is that winning teams have a purpose in mind beyond simply being a winning team. Did anyone actually believe that Tampa Bay entered the season with the stated goal of being a winning team? How about Kansas City? Nope, the goal from the very beginning was to become SB champions, period!

I don't understand these "steps" that are being promoted since 1991-1992. Think about that sort of mindset as we flash back to the 2011 season. This team finished that season 5-11 and last in the division. The following year with nearly the same team in place and a dynamic newly installed QB at the helm finished 10-6. Without him the following year they once again fell to 3-13 and last in the division. Lesson gained from this experience, there's only one step necessary in becoming long term playoff and SB relevant, and that's to do whatever is necessary to get your QB when you already have very good pieces in place. Why?? because your QB has to be your constant beyond him, according the the NFL Players Association, the average career of an NFL player is 3.3 years. The players left the NFL for a variety of reasons. These include injury, retirement and being cut by their team. With him you're retooling, not rebuilding.

 

[Stymietee]

didnt RR draft cam ? didnt cam get them to a superbowl ? wasnt Cam a decent qb before injuries started piling up affecting his arm ?

we had brad johnson who took the vikings to a superbowl . we had KC but these guys werent sexy enough . we had rich gannon who was in the same superbowl as johnson , we had trent green but again not sexy enough

we have had 4 non elite guys at qb take us to 5 superbowls

the issue is we have an owner who wants sexy over performance and we have a fan base that is just as bad .

we havent had a complete team since 91

yes try for a qb but if it doesnt happen this year then go to the next

Excuse me but where are the multiple SB's that these guys played in? One and done is for losers! Good to get there and all of that but the trick is getting back or at worse close year in and year out.

Of course the owner is a lil' shit, but that doesn't excuse the men who are hired to do a job but won't stand up to the asshole preventing them from doing just that. Think about that for a moment, If he meddles you're going to be fired for losing, if you stand up to him you're going to be fired, it's a lose-lose situation so you might as well do it your way.

It's NOT that these named QB's weren't "sexy enough" but rather the dysfunction here, and its absence elsewhere gave them the opportunity to have that season of a lifetime. Kirk is, and has been a middle of the pack QB. He might still find himself on a SB team and exactly like the others mentioned his appearance will be because of the team around him and not because his agency made the difference. I cannot speak for others and I really don't care how some choose to characterize what I'm looking for at QB but when other teams can find their guy, is it really that foreign to this board that I want Washington to sack up and do the same thing here?

Finally you wrote the team's tagline "yes try for a QB, but if it doesn't happen this year then go to the next" when exactly does this merry-go-round stop in D.C.? This team, in its quest to get their QB hasn't hit on one because they ultimately settle for stinkweed or middle of the road guys thinking that limited stability is good enough without realizing that the slug they have needs a superior team around him to win. Failing that, the question is...since 1991-1992, how's that worked out for them?

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

Ok let me ask you stymie and others if Washington added tom brady at the begin of this season would we have won the super bowl ?? I would say No because oline is Meh we realy got 1 wr .. what's the diffence between wash and tampa they are loaded with talent top to bottom and they got Brady .. you go for broke when you are loaded if you are not loaded with talent you dont go for broke .. build the roster load up then strike .. getting watson wont matter if you trade away your future picks to get him.. can we just build are roster .. i have said we will pull the trigger on big time qb in the 2022 season can we just get to 500 first.. oh props to unsung heros of washington the strength and condition team

 

[Stymietee]

Ok let me ask you stymie and others if Washington added tom brady at the begin of this season would we have won the super bowl ?? I would say No because oline is Meh we realy got 1 wr .. what's the diffence between wash and tampa they are loaded with talent top to bottom and they got Brady .. you go for broke when you are loaded if you are not loaded with talent you dont go for broke .. build the roster load up then strike .. getting watson wont matter if you trade away your future picks to get him.. can we just build are roster .. i have said we will pull the trigger on big time qb in the 2022 season can we just get to 500 first.. oh props to unsung heros of washington the strength and condition team

I can't say for certain if Tom Brady is the kind of QB that makes this offense dynamic, It is altogether possible that he is the sort that makes others better than they otherwise would be, so who knows? That said, what we do know for certain is that a guy like Taylor Heineke does make this offense dynamic at least for that one game and a player like Watson, possibly Wilson or Dak would have won that game against Tampa Bay. So now the question becomes, how, considering the defensive shortcoming against Tampa? Answer: zero turnovers, increased TOP and scoring drives. Defense would have spent more time on the sidelines because of the better QB over Heinicke. Washington was down 9 points before they scored their first TD. They were down 11 points before they scored 3 points, and later another TD. then Tampa Bay increased their lead to 12 before Washington scored its final TD. Increased TOP and scoring changes all of that. (official TOP for that game 31-29 in favor of TB)

I'll grant you this, Washington still needs pieces, but they aren't as far away as some appear to think they are. Adding, or as you state, "pulling the trigger" for a big time QB as currently constructed, dramatically changes this team and here's the kicker, you don't have to "trade away your future" to get that guy.

You might be correct about getting that guy in 2022 but what you fail to factor in is the loss of at least 33% of this team as currently constructed by then. In effect, your way is doing the same thing a year from today and you're not even certain that the future guy that you want to pull the trigger on will be there. It is interesting to note that you believe that the opportunity to get the 5th ranked QB, and second best in the game today will still be available in 2022.

 

[j_y19]

Four 1st round QB's taken since 1999 and none of them worked out! There seems to be a pattern there and one that doesn't seem close to changing in the near future. Isn't it time to break that constant failure with a new effort that arises from an entirely different way to get your long term QB?

And what is this different way? We've tried drafting them. We have signed them as FAs. We have traded for them. None have worked out. What's next, grow them at home?

 

[Stymietee]

And what is this different way? We've tried drafting them. We have signed them as FAs. We have traded for them. None have worked out. What's next, grow them at home?

If you don't count the Jurgensen for Snead trade in1964, Washington has never traded for a top notch signal caller. Their trademark efforts in this regards have always been about getting second tier or players entering the downside of their careers. Honestly, I cannot think of another trade for a QB in that mold. Perhaps I'm missing one, so, in order to stand correct on this, if you can think of another I'll stipulate to your memory/ research. As I recall, when great or young great players become available, Washington almost always pass. See: Albert Haynesworth for the exception in modern times.

BTW: when was the last time a young, top 5 ranked, 2nd best QB in the game has ever been available or subject to trade? Hint: DW is the first!