Build a better team from any era of non ring players that beats this current non ring team

[tlance]

Only won 50%...= doesn't fit well

And i said a team with 4 stars...Not 2

lol

They had 3 stars.

And no. LeBron and Wade did not fit that well.

They would have won 4 if they had.

 

[SJ76]

They only get 1 rating you giant fag!

Oooh now I know you are about to crack. Giant fag I love it.

You were the dumbass that said... “in fact (lol) his offensive rating was better than his defensive rating”. Don’t backpedal like a bitch.

Kawhi is a top 3 defensive player in the league maybe the best. He’s not in the same league as Lebron, Giannis, Curry, Harden, Durant, or Westbrook on offense. He’s a shutdown defender and a dam good offensive player but he’s not top 5.

 

[SJ76]

It is common sense.

Ball dominant nonshooters aren’t going to fit as well as a pass first PG, a shooter, a slashing wing a 2 skilled bigs.

And those guys didn’t ever win because they had this guy named Michael Jordan in their way.

Maybe you have heard of him?

Never gets old

 

[lebron23james]

They had 3 stars.

And no. LeBron and Wade did not fit that well.

They would have won 4 if they had.

I said 4 tho, u slow?

Lebron and Wade fit fine...More of the problem was Wade was declining after the 2nd year together

And i would say more like 2 1/2

 

[lebron23james]

Oooh now I know you are about to crack. Giant fag I love it.

You were the dumbass that said... “in fact (lol) his offensive rating was better than his defensive rating”. Don’t backpedal like a bitch.

Kawhi is a top 3 defensive player in the league maybe the best. He’s not in the same league as Lebron, Giannis, Curry, Harden, Durant, or Westbrook on offense. He’s a shutdown defender and a dam good offensive player but he’s not top 5.

That was too add a nice touch at the end lol

I was talking about his real offensive rating...It's better, learn life boy!

 

[SJ76]

That was too add a nice touch at the end lol

I was talking about his real offensive rating...It's better, learn life boy!

Shut up stupid

 

[lebron23james]

Shut up stupid

You want me to come over there?

 

[lebron23james]

Never gets old


View attachment 213605

He stepped over the line when he takes off...

 

[tlance]

I said 4 tho, u slow?

Lebron and Wade fit fine...More of the problem was Wade was declining after the 2nd year together

And i would say more like 2 1/2

are you?

How many times in the history of the NBA has a team had 4 stars?

Besides,

That proves nothing.

Because both of these hypothetical teams have noting but stars.

And what kind of idiot thinks fit doesn’t matter in basketball?

 

[SJ76]

And what kind of idiot thinks fit doesn’t matter in basketball?

A person who has never played at any competitive level and loves franchise mode on NBA2k

 

[Bart]

He stepped over the line when he takes off...

Jordan was always a cheat.

 

[trojanfan12]

Ball dominant pg's are often more skilled and better than pass first pg's. Many pass first pg's are pass first because that is their only option.

Westbrook is the only non-shooter on my list and he makes it up with his all around game. How many of those players averaged triple doubles?

Maybe some of the ball dominant pg's didn't win because of a guy name Lebron James?

Maybe you heard of him?

Not really. I can only think of 3 pass first point guards who couldn't/can't shoot...Rondo, Lonzo and Simmons.

Most pass first point guards can shoot or learn to shoot. Also, Lebron being in the way doesn't explain the inability of guys like Westbrook and Harden to get to the finals (and often, not even past the 2nd round) since they didn't have to go through him.

As for Westbrook averaging a triple double. I was as impressed with that first one as anyone. But end of the day, all his averaging triple doubles ended up doing was devaluing the triple double, because he accomplished it largely by stat stuffing and he hasn't been able to get past the 2nd round.

Additionally, most NBA players prefer to play with a pass first point guard because they know they're going to get their "touches".

 

[tlance]

Not really. I can only think of 3 pass first point guards who couldn't/can't shoot...Rondo, Lonzo and Simmons.

Most pass first point guards can shoot or learn to shoot. Also, Lebron being in the way doesn't explain the inability of guys like Westbrook and Harden to get to the finals (and often, not even past the 2nd round) since they didn't have to go through him.

As for Westbrook averaging a triple double. I was as impressed with that first one as anyone. But end of the day, all his averaging triple doubles ended up doing was devaluing the triple double, because he accomplished it largely by stat stuffing and he hasn't been able to get past the 2nd round.

Additionally, most NBA players prefer to play with a pass first point guard because they know they're going to get their "touches".

Right.

I am not saying I would not want Harden or Russ on my team. They are both very good players.

But, having ball dominant guards like them reduces opportunity for other players around them.

So if I have an all star caliber roster, I am taking the Stockton type over the Westbrook type all day long.

Now if I have a roster of scrubs? I would take Russ.

 

[trojanfan12]

Only won 50%...= doesn't fit well

Actually, that's true. Not fitting well is why they lost to the Mavs in their first year and why, if not for a miracle rebound tip and shot by Ray Allen, the Heat may very well have been 1-3 in those 4 trips.

Remember, when they first got together, it wasn't just Lebron talking about the Heat winning a bunch of titles in a row.

In fact, when considering what the expectations were, you could actually make a case for that Heat team being something of a failure.

 

[trojanfan12]

Right.

I am not saying I would not want Harden or Russ on my team. They are both very good players.

But, having ball dominant guards like them reduces opportunity for other players around them.

So if I have an all star caliber roster, I am taking the Stockton type over the Westbrook type all day long.

Now if I have a roster of scrubs? I would take Russ.

Exactly. That's why I've always said "I love watching Westbrook play for someone else".

I love his athleticism and how hard he plays on both ends of the floor. There probably isn't a more exciting player to watch in the league.

But he's also incredibly frustrating to watch because it's like someone took all of the worst attributes that Kobe has been criticized for and put a turbo charger on them with Westbrook. lol

 

[lebron23james]

Not really. I can only think of 3 pass first point guards who couldn't/can't shoot...Rondo, Lonzo and Simmons.

Most pass first point guards can shoot or learn to shoot. Also, Lebron being in the way doesn't explain the inability of guys like Westbrook and Harden to get to the finals (and often, not even past the 2nd round) since they didn't have to go through him.

As for Westbrook averaging a triple double. I was as impressed with that first one as anyone. But end of the day, all his averaging triple doubles ended up doing was devaluing the triple double, because he accomplished it largely by stat stuffing and he hasn't been able to get past the 2nd round.

Additionally, most NBA players prefer to play with a pass first point guard because they know they're going to get their "touches".

You have to remember everyone of those lists don't have rings, because of something they are flawed with in their game. That is the entire point of a non chip list. The narrative is funny because the team split up. Had Wesbrook, Harden and Durant stayed together they likely would have won a few rings. Harden single handily almost took out GS when GS had Durant on the team...Knocking him for certain things is not really fair imho

Pg's on bad teams don't average triple doubles. Stockton was losing with the rest of them, but also wasn't getting triple doubles

I think the current NBA prefers shoot first pg's...Kyrie, Curry, Lillard etc...Ball dominant pg's are okay as long as they can score. The real weakneeses are the ones who can't do either

 

[tlance]

You have to remember everyone of those lists don't have rings, because of something they are flawed with their game. That is the entire point of a non chip list. The narrative is funny because the team split up. Had Wesbrook, Harden and Durant stayed together they likely would have won a few rings. Harden single handily almost took out GS when GS had Durant on the team...Knocking him for certain things is not really fair imho

Pg's on bad teams don't average triple doubles. Stockton was losing with the rest of them, but also wasn't getting triple doubles

Cmon man.

All those players aren’t lacking rings because of “flaws”.

Stockton and Malone, for example, are only lacking rings because they couldn’t beat the Bulls.

Their teams were not good enough to win, but that does not make them flawed players.

Now Russ and Harden?

IMO, they are flawed players because they are difficult to fit in a true team construct.

 

[lebron23james]

Actually, that's true. Not fitting well is why they lost to the Mavs in their first year and why, if not for a miracle rebound tip and shot by Ray Allen, the Heat may very well have been 1-3 in those 4 trips.

Remember, when they first got together, it wasn't just Lebron talking about the Heat winning a bunch of titles in a row.

In fact, when considering what the expectations were, you could actually make a case for that Heat team being something of a failure.

They lost to the Mavs because Lebron shit the bed. He played scared.

The Heat did get lucky, but a lot of championship teams get some type of luck. Considering the 4 teams they played, they really weren't any better than the Cavs. I would have taken those 4 teams they played over the GS warriors 4 years in a row lol

 

[Black Adam]

Jordan was always a cheat.

lol and Harden ain't...?

well, I won't go as far as "cheat" I guess, but pushes the envelope like a mothufucka...

 

[lebron23james]

Cmon man.

All those players aren’t lacking rings because of “flaws”.

Stockton and Malone, for example, are only lacking rings because they couldn’t beat the Bulls.

Their teams were not good enough to win, but that does not make them flawed players.

Now Russ and Harden?

IMO, they are flawed players because they are difficult to fit in a true team construct.

You are only saying that because OKC split up

Say they stuck it out and won, you would have an entire different narrative. Stockton and Malone didn't split up. They were just never capable of winning. OKC was but they totally missmanaged that team. Big difference!

In fact if they all stayed together and didn't win, you would probably say Durant wasn't capable of winning. Durant hasn't proved anymore to me than Harden. I don't think Durant would have carried Houston to a title either