What would YOU do with Alex Smith?

[j_y19]

Most likely right. He may try it but I can remember many that have had that injury and played worth a damn if at all. My nephew had it to just one bone in his lower leg and that was the end of his college football career.

I had the same injury when I was 16. It took me over a year before I was ever close to 100% at that age. At 35, I don't see him coming back.

 

[gkekoa]

Here we go again with Mack. First let me say Mack is a very good football player. Let me also say over the last three years Kerrigan has three more sacks, over four years give Mack a slight edge and over 5 years it is 60-53 for Kerrigan. You are going to have to join Sty's ARK club.

It was simply a stud football player. Wouldn’t we like to sign a young Ryan Kerrigan if he were to come available? Is that better?

 

[Sportster 72]

It was simply a stud football player. Wouldn’t we like to sign a young Ryan Kerrigan if he were to come available? Is that better?

Sure, it was mostly in gest and to have a little fun with Sty also. For a high enough draft pick I would consider it. He is probably only here two more years at most anyhow.

Secondly and this is purely selfish, what do we have other than to root for our better players. I'd like to think this will get turned around but it isn't going to happen. This organization has been rotten from the head down for 20 years. They finally found a pretty damned good QB and Bruce got in a pissing match with him, then made a bad trade and gave him a worse contract extension.

It took the Caps forever to win that Stanley Cup. But at least they were headed in the right direction. It is great and I guess in some ways gives us hope when we play GM but really, do you think any of those things are going to happen.

All I have left is rooting for guys I like on the team.

 

[Stymietee]

I cut ties with Smith now, the cap hit is tremendous but why prolong the inevitable into 2020? While it's possible that Smith can mount a successful return, the timeline for that points to 2020 and his first live snaps (Oops) at 36 years of age.

I'm with @gkekoa on this one, if the plan is for this organization to take that one painful hit, then all of the rest must also happen. I also think that there's some wiggle room with respects to trading TW and RK. I'm not ready to accept a 4th or 5th for either however, if there's a mid to late 2nd, or very, very, early 3rd for TW I'd take that and a late 2nd late 3rd for Kerrigan then tap the gavel...sold!

What this team needs is building capital such as draft picks and an improved cap position. We don't get either by holding onto aging veterans who have reached peak usefulness and/or just beginning their downslide. One year ago I suggested we trade Kerrigan, because IMO I believed that we would have gotten a nice 1st, extremely early 2nd for him, Williams I posted the same thing 2 years ago for the same reasons. I even posted a chart showing his diminishing playing time over the last few seasons.

2013 …16 games played
2014...15 games played
2015...14 games played
2016...12 games played
2017...10 games played
2018...13 games played
​

His value, as is Kerrigan's, to this team could very well be in playing elsewhere. Speaking of Kerrigan to type or begin to type that sacks are the sole metric upon which a player is measured is laughable. That said, I would take one K. Mack over 3 Kerrigan's and not lose any sleep concerning myself over it.

 

[gkekoa]

Sure, it was mostly in gest and to have a little fun with Sty also. For a high enough draft pick I would consider it. He is probably only here two more years at most anyhow.

Secondly and this is purely selfish, what do we have other than to root for our better players. I'd like to think this will get turned around but it isn't going to happen. This organization has been rotten from the head down for 20 years. They finally found a pretty damned good QB and Bruce got in a pissing match with him, then made a bad trade and gave him a worse contract extension.

It took the Caps forever to win that Stanley Cup. But at least they were headed in the right direction. It is great and I guess in some ways gives us hope when we play GM but really, do you think any of those things are going to happen.

All I have left is rooting for guys I like on the team.

It has been rotten for 20 years because it does what you want, rather than the hard thing and that is build with youth.

 

[Sportster 72]

It has been rotten for 20 years because it does what you want, rather than the hard thing and that is build with youth.

I disagree. Frequent trips into FA world which you were advocating and I already detailed. Trading away draft picks, which you advocated getting …. under Gibbs for Griffin etc and trading still productive football players or letting them walk via FA. You swung for the fences and got a swinging bunt.

 

[Sportster 72]

I cut ties with Smith now, the cap hit is tremendous but why prolong the inevitable into 2020? While it's possible that Smith can mount a successful return, the timeline for that points to 2020 and his first live snaps (Oops) at 36 years of age.

I'm with @gkekoa on this one, if the plan is for this organization to take that one painful hit, then all of the rest must also happen. I also think that there's some wiggle room with respects to trading TW and RK. I'm not ready to accept a 4th or 5th for either however, if there's a mid to late 2nd, or very, very, early 3rd for TW I'd take that and a late 2nd late 3rd for Kerrigan then tap the gavel...sold!

What this team needs is building capital such as draft picks and an improved cap position. We don't get either by holding onto aging veterans who have reached peak usefulness and/or just beginning their downslide. One year ago I suggested we trade Kerrigan, because IMO I believed that we would have gotten a nice 1st, extremely early 2nd for him, Williams I posted the same thing 2 years ago for the same reasons. I even posted a chart showing his diminishing playing time over the last few seasons.

2013 …16 games played
2014...15 games played
2015...14 games played
2016...12 games played
2017...10 games played
2018...13 games played
​

His value, as is Kerrigan's, to this team could very well be in playing elsewhere. Speaking of Kerrigan to type or begin to type that sacks are the sole metric upon which a player is measured is laughable. That said, I would take one K. Mack over 3 Kerrigan's and not lose any sleep concerning myself over it.

Yes I know, Kerrigan leads in most of those also or is on about the same pace. C'mon Sty, you think I am that easy. Sorry my friend, just as I copied from that article several days ago the Redskin fan base and many others under value vanilla players like Kerrigan and Cousin's. FF - Kerrigan 25; Mack -15 …. Passed defensed - Kerrigan 23; Mack 15 … TFL - Kerrigan -108; Mack 78 … do we bring up the Cousin's argument now, "HEY! those are just stats."

 

[gkekoa]

I disagree. Frequent trips into FA world which you were advocating and I already detailed. Trading away draft picks, which you advocated getting …. under Gibbs for Griffin etc and trading still productive football players or letting them walk via FA. You swung for the fences and got a swinging bunt.

I am not advocating living through FA. I am advocating for going after an actual stud player if they hit the market.

We would not be letting go of good football players because they are not “sexy” enough, such as Antonio Pierce and Ryan Clark. We would be getting rid of two great players projecting the team is unable to compete until they are 33 years old and assuming they will decline over that period. We were put in that position because we couldn’t do the “tough thing” and overpay for an aging, one good season, 34 year old QB.

 

[skinsdad62]

I am not advocating living through FA. I am advocating for going after an actual stud player if they hit the market.

We would not be letting go of good football players because they are not “sexy” enough, such as Antonio Pierce and Ryan Clark. We would be getting rid of two great players projecting the team is unable to compete until they are 33 years old and assuming they will decline over that period. We were put in that position because we couldn’t do the “tough thing” and overpay for an aging, one good season, 34 year old QB.

And if stud player doesn’t come here ? Or isn’t available ? How do you convince Gruden to tank for the next coach ?

 

[skinsdad62]

And who he is giving up high picks for declining players ? Smart teams dont do that either

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I am not advocating living through FA. I am advocating for going after an actual stud player if they hit the market.

We would not be letting go of good football players because they are not “sexy” enough, such as Antonio Pierce and Ryan Clark. We would be getting rid of two great players projecting the team is unable to compete until they are 33 years old and assuming they will decline over that period. We were put in that position because we couldn’t do the “tough thing” and overpay for an aging, one good season, 34 year old QB.

Again - I hope that the implication is not that the Redskins screw up by constantly letting their talent go to other teams. That happens on occasion, but by far that is not their biggest issue. Their main issue is finding good talent in the first place - primarily via the draft but also via smart free agency..

Building primarily via the draft is a great way to operate, but you have to pick wisely. Stroll through say the last 5-6 drafts:

Washington Redskins All-Time Draft History | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Last years draft obviously had Payne & the rest is TBD & will be really good if Guice contributes. The previous year? Meh. Allen & Rouilier are solid, but the rest either no longer contribute, don't play well or are inconsistent. I still scratch my head @ Perine. Does Gruden just hate the guy? I understand that AP was your primary guy, but why didn't Perine at least get some carries - confusing.

The 2016 draft must be considered a failure w/ some bright spots (I-man & perhaps Docston at times) & yes I realize that many will argue that they should have retained Fuller - I get it. The 2014 draft is a disaster (#1 traded for RG3, other players long gong, Moses now so-so due to injuries, etc). The 2013 draft now only comes down to Reed & Thompson - 2 excellent players who get hurt way too often. That draft has to be considered a failure. The 2012 draft? Oh what could have been, but in the end - due to subsequent moves & careers that have gone downhill - it now results in nothing to show for the Skins (& yes partially due to moving players elsewhere).

Bottom line is that regardless of their philosophy they are going to have to draft smarter. Until very recently I thought that they had turned the corner in this area, but I now have my doubts. It all comes down to having the rt people making personnel decisions which as we all know is very, very problematic for this team. Cmon Dean & Coach - please counter this & tell me I am wrong since you both have extremely high opinions of Snyder & Allen.

 

[gkekoa]

And if stud player doesn’t come here ? Or isn’t available ? How do you convince Gruden to tank for the next coach ?

OK...so he doesn’t come here. What is your point?

Who is talking about tanking? I am talking about having players that can win in three years...cultivating a team.

 

[gkekoa]

And who he is giving up high picks for declining players ? Smart teams dont do that either

They haven’t declined yet. They will by 2021, once we have recovered from this Bruce Allen mess.

 

[gkekoa]

Again - I hope that the implication is not that the Redskins screw up by constantly letting their talent go to other teams. That happens on occasion, but by far that is not their biggest issue. Their main issue is finding good talent in the first place - primarily via the draft but also via smart free agency..

Building primarily via the draft is a great way to operate, but you have to pick wisely. Stroll through say the last 5-6 drafts:

Washington Redskins All-Time Draft History | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Last years draft obviously had Payne & the rest is TBD & will be really good if Guice contributes. The previous year? Meh. Allen & Rouilier are solid, but the rest either no longer contribute, don't play well or are inconsistent. I still scratch my head @ Perine. Does Gruden just hate the guy? I understand that AP was your primary guy, but why didn't Perine at least get some carries - confusing.

The 2016 draft must be considered a failure w/ some bright spots (I-man & perhaps Docston at times) & yes I realize that many will argue that they should have retained Fuller - I get it. The 2014 draft is a disaster (#1 traded for RG3, other players long gong, Moses now so-so due to injuries, etc). The 2013 draft now only comes down to Reed & Thompson - 2 excellent players who get hurt way too often. That draft has to be considered a failure. The 2012 draft? Oh what could have been, but in the end - due to subsequent moves & careers that have gone downhill - it now results in nothing to show for the Skins (& yes partially due to moving players elsewhere).

Bottom line is that regardless of their philosophy they are going to have to draft smarter. Until very recently I thought that they had turned the corner in this area, but I now have my doubts. It all comes down to having the rt people making personnel decisions which as we all know is very, very problematic for this team. Cmon Dean & Coach - please counter this & tell me I am wrong since you both have extremely high opinions of Snyder & Allen.

So you are saying we shouldn’t build through the draft...and we can’t afford FAs...and if we could afford them, we would screw that up...so instead, we should just keep our aging players, continually getting nothing for them, while sitting between 2 and 7 wins. Great plan.

 

[skinz2winz]

I cut ties with Smith now, the cap hit is tremendous but why prolong the inevitable into 2020? While it's possible that Smith can mount a successful return, the timeline for that points to 2020 and his first live snaps (Oops) at 36 years of age.

I'm with @gkekoa on this one, if the plan is for this organization to take that one painful hit, then all of the rest must also happen. I also think that there's some wiggle room with respects to trading TW and RK. I'm not ready to accept a 4th or 5th for either however, if there's a mid to late 2nd, or very, very, early 3rd for TW I'd take that and a late 2nd late 3rd for Kerrigan then tap the gavel...sold!

What this team needs is building capital such as draft picks and an improved cap position. We don't get either by holding onto aging veterans who have reached peak usefulness and/or just beginning their downslide. One year ago I suggested we trade Kerrigan, because IMO I believed that we would have gotten a nice 1st, extremely early 2nd for him, Williams I posted the same thing 2 years ago for the same reasons. I even posted a chart showing his diminishing playing time over the last few seasons.

2013 …16 games played
2014...15 games played
2015...14 games played
2016...12 games played
2017...10 games played
2018...13 games played
​

His value, as is Kerrigan's, to this team could very well be in playing elsewhere. Speaking of Kerrigan to type or begin to type that sacks are the sole metric upon which a player is measured is laughable. That said, I would take one K. Mack over 3 Kerrigan's and not lose any sleep concerning myself over it.

Mack makes game changing plays often. Generational player and one of the best at his position for sure. Ryan Kerrigan out of Purdue, well, fan favorite type of player who will one day be in the Redskins ring of honor, and quite frankly, a nice story.

 

[skinsdad62]

OK...so he doesn’t come here. What is your point?

Who is talking about tanking? I am talking about having players that can win in three years...cultivating a team.

You are tanking , I just showed the replacements above

 

[skinsdad62]

They haven’t declined yet. They will by 2021, once we have recovered from this Bruce Allen mess.

They are in decline if you give them just 2 years. And again who is giving up prime picks for 2 year rentals

 

[SoCalWizFan]

So you are saying we shouldn’t build through the draft...and we can’t afford FAs...and if we could afford them, we would screw that up...so instead, we should just keep our aging players, continually getting nothing for them, while sitting between 2 and 7 wins. Great plan.

LOL - where did I say that the Redskins should not build via the draft? I said that they need to draft wisely - huge difference. Please read what folks actually say & don't simply make assumptions.

Here is what I stated in my last paragraph:

Bottom line is that regardless of their philosophy they are going to have to draft smarter.

How does that translate into "we shouldn't build through the draft"?

 

[Sportster 72]

I am not advocating living through FA. I am advocating for going after an actual stud player if they hit the market.

We would not be letting go of good football players because they are not “sexy” enough, such as Antonio Pierce and Ryan Clark. We would be getting rid of two great players projecting the team is unable to compete until they are 33 years old and assuming they will decline over that period. We were put in that position because we couldn’t do the “tough thing” and overpay for an aging, one good season, 34 year old QB.

I am not totally disagreeing. I understand what you are saying and if the right circumstance presents itself then make a trade. I am more worried about Trent because of injuries the past few years. I also understand trying to stay in good cap health. As mentioned before both guys are only here two more years. I really don't see us being super competitive in the next two years.

I am not against FA either but we have never been very good at it. Our FO is not very good. I don't see that changing as long as Dan owns the team. Trade, keep, take them out back and shoot them I think we end up with similar results. We have been building a team for 20 years.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I am not totally disagreeing. I understand what you are saying and if the right circumstance presents itself then make a trade. I am more worried about Trent because of injuries the past few years. I also understand trying to stay in good cap health. As mentioned before both guys are only here two more years. I really don't see us being super competitive in the next two years.

I am not against FA either but we have never been very good at it. Our FO is not very good. I don't see that changing as long as Dan owns the team. Trade, keep, take them out back and shoot them I think we end up with similar results. We have been building a team for 20 years.

Yep - sadly what you say is true. We can talk all day long about what WE would do in terms of trades, free agency, coaching, etc. However in the end it doesn't matter because WE are not the ones making these decisions.

At some pt there is going to have to be a change of mindset by Snyder & the powers that be at Ashburn. That almost appeared to be the case when they hired SM. That is what made that move encouraging when it occurred & equally depressing when he was fired. It wasn't so much SM himself but rather the idea that they would let a true football person make football decisions.

In all likelihood this won't change soon & the only real hope will be extreme luck which doesn't appear to be in large supply at Redskins Park. Here is to hoping that we are all completely wrong on this subject. We appear to have these type of discussion every damn year & yet here we are again & really not a lot we can go about it (although for the first time in a while I truly believe that this team is starting to lose a significant amt of their fanbase).