politics thread

[Sharkinva]

Those ladies were paid off for personal reasons and with his own money. Not campaign money

But thats the real problem isnt it. He didnt pay the money. Cohen and AMI did. They did it to bury the stories to prevent them from affecting the election. That makes them campaign donations that were not reported. Even if he did pay them back. Now the problem comes in because he knew about them ahead of time.

 

[gkekoa]

Wow, you guys never quit, It is illegal to cover-up or hide by paying hush money to those who might expose a candidate's dirty laundry. There is NO way to do that legally. BTW: Even if he did this through another method, AMI or a shell company, there's audio tape of he and Trump discussing the method in which such payments are to be made.

Factually, if this was anyone doing that, other than someone holding this office, they would already be indicted. I'm not a lawyer but I have read the constitution, not surprising, there's NOTHING in it that prevents a president from being indicted. There is only a memo written by a former Attorney General advising against it. I have a feeling that the next big story is one where our fellow countrymen and women are debating whether or not a president can be indicted. Any thoughts on this?

Can you show me where it says it is illegal to pay hush money? Congress has a fund for exactly that. I think you are mistaken. The issue is whether or not it was with campaign finances. The audio tape you are referring to explicitly shows Trump not trying to do anything illegal.

As for Constitutionality of prosecution, it is questionable because it would impede the executive branch from doing its job. The obvious answer is it doesn’t matter. If there was out and out evidence of the POTUS committing a crime, the legislative branch would immediately impeach the POTUS which allows him to be prosecuted.

As for comparisons with Bill, Bill was much worse. He blatantly lied to Congress, under oath, about an affair which is illegal under the UCMJ. Whether or not the POTUS is subject to the UCMJ is questionable at best, but I don’t understand why the CIC wouldn’t be if laws are supposed to be applied equally.

Now, what crimes have Trump’s cohorts been indicted for?
Flynn for lying to Congress, which he never actually lied.
Cohen for tax crimes, lying to a bank (seriously WTF), and campaign finance violations.

All of these indictments came through an investigation into the non-crime of collusion with Russia. This is why it is a witch hunt. The reason Mueller is questioned for integrity is how this whole thing has been done. He aligned himself with Clinton cronies, all of them. He has dug up dirt on everybody in the most questionable and flimsy circumstances to apply pressure on a political outsider in Trump. That is why people such as myself have an issue with this entire investigation. I have no delusions on the kind of man Trump is. I hate Trump and think he is a total dick. I also believe he is being treated this way because he is a political outsider and isn’t acting in the manner others believe he should. I believe the crimes the Clintons committed are far worse. I believe Obama committed several offenses that were covered up with the terms, “I plead the fifth.”

All in all, I can’t stand Washington. I truly believe we need a commoner in office, that served in the military and never made it above O-4. When election time rolls back around, if the republicans put forth a decent candidate, I will be voting against Trump, just like I did in the last primary. If Trump is the candidate selected by Republicans, I will be voting for Trump because I differ fundamentally by far to great a distance on economics, sovereignty, and individualism to vote for the dems.

 

[gkekoa]

But thats the real problem isnt it. He didnt pay the money. Cohen and AMI did. They did it to bury the stories to prevent them from affecting the election. That makes them campaign donations that were not reported. Even if he did pay them back. Now the problem comes in because he knew about them ahead of time.

Nah...this is what Trump always did. He did not try to commit a crime and like Comey said, “there was no intent.” Or does that only work with Hillary?

 

[Sharkinva]

Nah...this is what Trump always did. He did not try to commit a crime and like Comey said, “there was no intent.” Or does that only work with Hillary?

Ignorantia juris non excusat or ignorantia legis neminem excusat (Latin for "ignorance of the lawexcuses not" and "ignorance of law excuses no one" respectively) is a legal principle holding that a person who is unaware of a law may not escape liability for violating that law merely because one was unaware


NOw i bring this up for two reasons.

1. Because people are saying Trump may not have been aware that having Cohen pay these women off and paying him back would violate campaign finance law.

2. Because he is on tape planning these payments and saying, it wont matter in two weeks (IE after the election), it both shows intent to hide this information because of the election. And you have Cohen and worse AMI saying exactly that they were working with the Trump team to hide these stories in order to prevent them from effecting the election.


So the tape shows intent, and the fact that he might claim to not know it was illegal in the way he went about it, does not excuse him breaking the law. Or does this only apply to Democrats??

 

[gkekoa]

Ignorantia juris non excusat or ignorantia legis neminem excusat (Latin for "ignorance of the lawexcuses not" and "ignorance of law excuses no one" respectively) is a legal principle holding that a person who is unaware of a law may not escape liability for violating that law merely because one was unaware


NOw i bring this up for two reasons.

1. Because people are saying Trump may not have been aware that having Cohen pay these women off and paying him back would violate campaign finance law.

2. Because he is on tape planning these payments and saying, it wont matter in two weeks (IE after the election), it both shows intent to hide this information because of the election. And you have Cohen and worse AMI saying exactly that they were working with the Trump team to hide these stories in order to prevent them from effecting the election.


So the tape shows intent, and the fact that he might claim to not know it was illegal in the way he went about it, does not excuse him breaking the law. Or does this only apply to Democrats??

I would say Cohen was a worker of his because this wasn’t his first time doing this. He did this frequently and was paid for it. I really have no issue with how it was done because Trump and Cohen both had the view it was not a campaign donation. It was simply their relationship.

The tape shows Trump didn’t want it hidden as a finance issue.

I completely agree that ignorance doesn’t excuse. My point is Comey said it does on national TV when he said Hillary committed a crime but didn’t mean to.

 

[Sharkinva]

I would say Cohen was a worker of his because this wasn’t his first time doing this. He did this frequently and was paid for it. I really have no issue with how it was done because Trump and Cohen both had the view it was not a campaign donation. It was simply their relationship.

The tape shows Trump didn’t want it hidden as a finance issue.

I completely agree that ignorance doesn’t excuse. My point is Comey said it does on national TV when he said Hillary committed a crime but didn’t mean to.

So here is the thing, if there was nothing wrong here. And he didnt think it was illegal. And it wasnt a campaign finance thing....

Why go through the trouble of making a fake company, going through a middle man (AMI) and doing all this other stuff to keep it from coming out before the election?? Especially if you really believe it would not have impacted the election any way??

I mean seriously, a billionaire whose wife probably would NEVER see his bank statement to begin with. Needed to create a shell company to hide his hush money payment in a personal matter two weeks before a federal election which the matter would not have effected any way??

Its the timing, and the lengths of extreme that he was willing to go to that points to the illegality of his actions.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Can you show me where it says it is illegal to pay hush money? Congress has a fund for exactly that. I think you are mistaken. The issue is whether or not it was with campaign finances. The audio tape you are referring to explicitly shows Trump not trying to do anything illegal.

As for Constitutionality of prosecution, it is questionable because it would impede the executive branch from doing its job. The obvious answer is it doesn’t matter. If there was out and out evidence of the POTUS committing a crime, the legislative branch would immediately impeach the POTUS which allows him to be prosecuted.

As for comparisons with Bill, Bill was much worse. He blatantly lied to Congress, under oath, about an affair which is illegal under the UCMJ. Whether or not the POTUS is subject to the UCMJ is questionable at best, but I don’t understand why the CIC wouldn’t be if laws are supposed to be applied equally.

Now, what crimes have Trump’s cohorts been indicted for?
Flynn for lying to Congress, which he never actually lied.
Cohen for tax crimes, lying to a bank (seriously WTF), and campaign finance violations.

All of these indictments came through an investigation into the non-crime of collusion with Russia. This is why it is a witch hunt. The reason Mueller is questioned for integrity is how this whole thing has been done. He aligned himself with Clinton cronies, all of them. He has dug up dirt on everybody in the most questionable and flimsy circumstances to apply pressure on a political outsider in Trump. That is why people such as myself have an issue with this entire investigation. I have no delusions on the kind of man Trump is. I hate Trump and think he is a total dick. I also believe he is being treated this way because he is a political outsider and isn’t acting in the manner others believe he should. I believe the crimes the Clintons committed are far worse. I believe Obama committed several offenses that were covered up with the terms, “I plead the fifth.”

All in all, I can’t stand Washington. I truly believe we need a commoner in office, that served in the military and never made it above O-4. When election time rolls back around, if the republicans put forth a decent candidate, I will be voting against Trump, just like I did in the last primary. If Trump is the candidate selected by Republicans, I will be voting for Trump because I differ fundamentally by far to great a distance on economics, sovereignty, and individualism to vote for the dems.

I came here to discuss this because the Politics Board is nothing more than “Shut up Libtard”. I like the takes here and the respect shown others, thanks Dad for keeping it open.

For the record I voted for Bill but also thought he should have been impeached. But let’s be clear, he lied about a blow job. What we are discussing here is much much more serious. We are discussing the possibility of our President or his staff working with a hostile foreign government to influence our most important thing, the Presidential election. Legal or not that is much
More concerning than Bill lying about an affair. Hell trying to get Comey to change his course of the investigation and then firing him when he refused should be considered worse than lying about a blow job. But perjury is perjury so as I said I supported the impeachment

So Mueller, who every GOP member of Congress who spoke about it agreed has impeccable credentials, is simply doing his job. He should be allowed to uncover and explore every single thing he finds without being questioned,
It’s as simple as that.

And of course what we know today is just the tip of the iceberg, when all is revealed there’s a real good chance what Trump has done will be far worse than lying about sex to Congress. Hell I’m pretty convinced he lied in his written answers to Mueller’s questions.

 

[TemptressToo]

 

[Stymietee]

Can you show me where it says it is illegal to pay hush money? Congress has a fund for exactly that. I think you are mistaken. The issue is whether or not it was with campaign finances. The audio tape you are referring to explicitly shows Trump not trying to do anything illegal.

As for Constitutionality of prosecution, it is questionable because it would impede the executive branch from doing its job. The obvious answer is it doesn’t matter. If there was out and out evidence of the POTUS committing a crime, the legislative branch would immediately impeach the POTUS which allows him to be prosecuted.

As for comparisons with Bill, Bill was much worse. He blatantly lied to Congress, under oath, about an affair which is illegal under the UCMJ. Whether or not the POTUS is subject to the UCMJ is questionable at best, but I don’t understand why the CIC wouldn’t be if laws are supposed to be applied equally.

Now, what crimes have Trump’s cohorts been indicted for?
Flynn for lying to Congress, which he never actually lied.
Cohen for tax crimes, lying to a bank (seriously WTF), and campaign finance violations.

All of these indictments came through an investigation into the non-crime of collusion with Russia. This is why it is a witch hunt. The reason Mueller is questioned for integrity is how this whole thing has been done. He aligned himself with Clinton cronies, all of them. He has dug up dirt on everybody in the most questionable and flimsy circumstances to apply pressure on a political outsider in Trump. That is why people such as myself have an issue with this entire investigation. I have no delusions on the kind of man Trump is. I hate Trump and think he is a total dick. I also believe he is being treated this way because he is a political outsider and isn’t acting in the manner others believe he should. I believe the crimes the Clintons committed are far worse. I believe Obama committed several offenses that were covered up with the terms, “I plead the fifth.”

All in all, I can’t stand Washington. I truly believe we need a commoner in office, that served in the military and never made it above O-4. When election time rolls back around, if the republicans put forth a decent candidate, I will be voting against Trump, just like I did in the last primary. If Trump is the candidate selected by Republicans, I will be voting for Trump because I differ fundamentally by far to great a distance on economics, sovereignty, and individualism to vote for the dems.

Because I am familiar with your methods let's take this one step at a time. You've asked, "Can you show me where it says it is illegal to pay hush money? This is the answer to that question.

Bribery legal definition of bribery - Legal Dictionary
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/bribery
BRIBERY, crim. law. The receiving or offering any undue reward by or to any person whomsoever, whose ordinary profession or business relates to the administration of public justice, in order to influence his behaviour in office, and to incline him to act contrary to his duty and the known rules of honesty and integrity. 3 Inst. 149; 1 Hawk. P. C. 67, s. 2 4 Bl. Com. 139; 1 Russ. Cr. 156.

Bribery Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.
definitions.uslegal.com ›

I'll be back later to continue this.

 

[Rowdy]

Because I am familiar with your methods let's take this one step at a time. You've asked, "Can you show me where it says it is illegal to pay hush money? This is the answer to that question.

Bribery legal definition of bribery - Legal Dictionary
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/bribery
BRIBERY, crim. law. The receiving or offering any undue reward by or to any person whomsoever, whose ordinary profession or business relates to the administration of public justice, in order to influence his behaviour in office, and to incline him to act contrary to his duty and the known rules of honesty and integrity. 3 Inst. 149; 1 Hawk. P. C. 67, s. 2 4 Bl. Com. 139; 1 Russ. Cr. 156.

Bribery Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.
definitions.uslegal.com ›

I'll be back later to continue this.

It was for personal reasons. Not the election. That’s his story and he’s sticking to it

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

 

[Sharkinva]

It was for personal reasons. Not the election. That’s his story and he’s sticking to it

Come on man, you got to admit... when we get to a point where the question is no longer

Did the President break any laws

But

Exactly how many laws did the President break

For most people... this would be a problem.

 

[Rowdy]

Like I said if the FBI would go on a fishing trip against all positions, it would be mind blowing I’m sure, especially the clintons. This is an unlawful investigation

 

[Sharkinva]

Like I said if the FBI would go on a fishing trip against all positions, it would be mind blowing I’m sure, especially the clintons. This is an unlawful investigation

And as i have said many times, Im not a Clinton fan... but after 25 years and various investigations, the most they ever charged on was lying about a blow job.

25 years is not fishing, thats the quest for the holy grail.

 

[gkekoa]

Because I am familiar with your methods let's take this one step at a time. You've asked, "Can you show me where it says it is illegal to pay hush money? This is the answer to that question.

Bribery legal definition of bribery - Legal Dictionary
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/bribery
BRIBERY, crim. law. The receiving or offering any undue reward by or to any person whomsoever, whose ordinary profession or business relates to the administration of public justice, in order to influence his behaviour in office, and to incline him to act contrary to his duty and the known rules of honesty and integrity. 3 Inst. 149; 1 Hawk. P. C. 67, s. 2 4 Bl. Com. 139; 1 Russ. Cr. 156.

Bribery Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.
definitions.uslegal.com ›

I'll be back later to continue this.

So it isn’t illegal to pay hush money, unless you are a public official, like Congress and their hush fund?

 

[gkekoa]

So here is the thing, if there was nothing wrong here. And he didnt think it was illegal. And it wasnt a campaign finance thing....

Why go through the trouble of making a fake company, going through a middle man (AMI) and doing all this other stuff to keep it from coming out before the election?? Especially if you really believe it would not have impacted the election any way??

I mean seriously, a billionaire whose wife probably would NEVER see his bank statement to begin with. Needed to create a shell company to hide his hush money payment in a personal matter two weeks before a federal election which the matter would not have effected any way??

Its the timing, and the lengths of extreme that he was willing to go to that points to the illegality of his actions.

Except...this may be how he always does it. I wouldn’t know because I am not a billionaire who would need to.

 

[Sharkinva]

Except...this may be how he always does it. I wouldn’t know because I am not a billionaire who would need to.

So let me ask you... if something you always do is not considered illegal for a private citizen, but would be considered illegal for a federal employee or a potential federal employee.... does that matter??

Example.... The Army will cash your ass for popping positive for smoking weed. But Smoking weed recreational is legal in quite a few states. Should a reservist or active duty member get kicked out if they smoke in Denver while on leave?? Or be down checked for entry because they smoked in Denver a month before they took the oath of enlistment??

 

[gkekoa]

I came here to discuss this because the Politics Board is nothing more than “Shut up Libtard”. I like the takes here and the respect shown others, thanks Dad for keeping it open.

For the record I voted for Bill but also thought he should have been impeached. But let’s be clear, he lied about a blow job. What we are discussing here is much much more serious. We are discussing the possibility of our President or his staff working with a hostile foreign government to influence our most important thing, the Presidential election. Legal or not that is much
More concerning than Bill lying about an affair. Hell trying to get Comey to change his course of the investigation and then firing him when he refused should be considered worse than lying about a blow job. But perjury is perjury so as I said I supported the impeachment

So Mueller, who every GOP member of Congress who spoke about it agreed has impeccable credentials, is simply doing his job. He should be allowed to uncover and explore every single thing he finds without being questioned,
It’s as simple as that.

And of course what we know today is just the tip of the iceberg, when all is revealed there’s a real good chance what Trump has done will be far worse than lying about sex to Congress. Hell I’m pretty convinced he lied in his written answers to Mueller’s questions.

Can we agree that Hillary definitely did the same thing by buying a dossier? Do you honestly believe every candidate doesn’t do this exact same thing?

Except he didn’t try to force Comey to change the course. He fired Comey for other reasons. I know you believe it was for the investigation; however, I would have fired Comey for the reasons given.

So, he should be allowed to investigate you if he claims it will help him get to Russia collusion, which is not a crime?

Is a lie about something that has nothing to do with Russia that bad? I just wish he and his entire staff had Loernered it.

 

[gkekoa]

So let me ask you... if something you always do is not considered illegal for a private citizen, but would be considered illegal for a federal employee or a potential federal employee.... does that matter??

Example.... The Army will cash your ass for popping positive for smoking weed. But Smoking weed recreational is legal in quite a few states. Should a reservist or active duty member get kicked out if they smoke in Denver while on leave?? Or be down checked for entry because they smoked in Denver a month before they took the oath of enlistment??

It does matter.

And in your example, they wouldn’t be responsible before their oath.

 

[Sharkinva]

It does matter.

And in your example, they wouldn’t be responsible before their oath.

Bullshit... I know recruiters still currently active. And of the ones I know in that area, the first thing they tell their recruits is... be honest with me. When is the last time you smoked if you smoke at all?? If its been less than three months, we cant even have you take the oath for another three months and you have to have a clean screen. Otherwise you cant even enlist.