What kind of team are we ,really ?

[j_y19]

What are your thoughts on the thinking that Gruden has considered the possibility that there are injuries that can be avoided in camp, and the preseason? This, some are saying, contributes to them being not as prepared as they would have been without this type of caution.

I do think that Gruden's preseason strategy on play time and contact is directly responsible for the slow starts (not solely, there are other issues). The offense, specifically, just has not gelled by the first game. Especially since we were trying to sync 2 new WRs with the offense. Injuries are going to happen. Its really hard to try and play around them.

 

[Sportster 72]

Relative to how you want to define great, probably....but as I relate them to historically great teams....mediocre.

HUH?? 5 Super Bowls in 15 years. I don't even like the Patriots and you have to consider them all time great. Are you comparing them to other eras? You can't really compare eras, it is apples to oranges. However if you asked me who the greatest team I ever saw play it was the 70s Steelers.

Parity has long been a goal for the NFL and most years most of the teams around .500 some completely suck and some are really good but the Pats have been consistently good for 15 years. Now they might have be a couple of oars short but I have said that before only to see Hoodie Bill get them rolling by years end.

 

[gkekoa]

HUH?? 5 Super Bowls in 15 years. I don't even like the Patriots and you have to consider them all time great. Are you comparing them to other eras? You can't really compare eras, it is apples to oranges. However if you asked me who the greatest team I ever saw play it was the 70s Steelers.

Parity has long been a goal for the NFL and most years most of the teams around .500 some completely suck and some are really good but the Pats have been consistently good for 15 years. Now they might have be a couple of oars short but I have said that before only to see Hoodie Bill get them rolling by years end.

Really, if you think about it, BB is far and away the greatest coach of all time. Even this year, he has already had to endure the loss of his #1 WR, manage the injuries of the best TE in football, the loss of his defensive captain and more.

 

[Stymietee]

I do think that Gruden's preseason strategy on play time and contact is directly responsible for the slow starts (not solely, there are other issues). The offense, specifically, just has not gelled by the first game. Especially since we were trying to sync 2 new WRs with the offense. Injuries are going to happen. Its really hard to try and play around them.

Now that I think about it, while we were all waiting for more work in the passing game during the preseason, there really wasn't that much. I seem to remember a thread or two about this at the time and subsequent posts at the end of preseason where some were correctly, stating that it would take more time, possibly half or almost half of the season for Kirk, JDoct and Pryor to completely sync up.

 

[Stymietee]

HUH?? 5 Super Bowls in 15 years. I don't even like the Patriots and you have to consider them all time great. Are you comparing them to other eras? You can't really compare eras, it is apples to oranges. However if you asked me who the greatest team I ever saw play it was the 70s Steelers.

Parity has long been a goal for the NFL and most years most of the teams around .500 some completely suck and some are really good but the Pats have been consistently good for 15 years. Now they might have be a couple of oars short but I have said that before only to see Hoodie Bill get them rolling by years end.

Naw....what I'm comparing are the rule changes that made it so much easier for offenses. Clearly T. Brady is one of the modern beneficiaries of such rule changes as are the N.E. Patriots. More clearly, here's my point using this one example....imagine what J. Rice's records would be playing under such accommodating rules.

 

[skinsdad62]

is gruden doing less contact then what then CBA allows ? if so its on him . in preseason i would agree with joy

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

why does doc only get 1 catch a game

 

[Breed]

One thing that drives me crazy is the lack of preparedness going into game 1 and off the bye. That is a coaching problem and a trend.

Yeah. its almost as if Gruden has conceded game 1 every year that he's been here. I can dig not wanting to get starters hurt in the preseason, but the 1st team needs more than 20 plays or whatever throughout the 4 game preseason to be a cohesive unit in week one.

 

[Breed]

why does doc only get 1 catch a game

Agreed. 9 total targets for the year which is what Doctson has is simply not enough.

 

[gkekoa]

Yeah. its almost as if Gruden has conceded game 1 every year that he's been here. I can dig not wanting to get starters hurt in the preseason, but the 1st team needs more than 20 plays or whatever throughout the 4 game preseason to be a cohesive unit in week one.

I almost think it is a lack of work.

 

[Breed]

Naw....what I'm comparing are the rule changes that made it so much easier for offenses. Clearly T. Brady is one of the modern beneficiaries of such rule changes as are the N.E. Patriots. More clearly, here's my point using this one example....imagine what J. Rice's records would be playing under such accommodating rules.

That's a valid point, but something else to consider. Jerry Rice played 16 years for the 9ers and did so playing for 2 QBs, in Montana and Young and 3 HCs in Walsh, Seifert and Mooch. Now that could be possible in today's free agency era, but how likely would that be? Its also possible some team offers Rice some outrageous contract that Frisco can't or won't match and suddenly Rice is catching passes from Derek Andersen or Scott Micthell and playing for 3 or 4 HC in 10 years.

 

[Stymietee]

That's a valid point, but something else to consider. Jerry Rice played 16 years for the 9ers and did so playing for 2 QBs, in Montana and Young and 3 HCs in Walsh, Seifert and Mooch. Now that could be possible in today's free agency era, but how likely would that be? Its also possible some team offers Rice some outrageous contract that Frisco can't or won't match and suddenly Rice is catching passes from Derek Andersen or Scott Micthell and playing for 3 or 4 HC in 10 years.

All true, of course I was taking things at face value where Rice actually did play consistently under the circumstances that you've outlined and with the rule changes as I mentioned. BTW: Isn't it also possible that Rice being the player that he was could have remained with SF and become the legend that he is and today still rank among the highest paid in history at the position? (A sort of Jordan in his day)

 

[Breed]

I almost think it is a lack of work.

It make sense to me. Especially when you consider some of what we always seem to see in week 1. A hesitant or at times confused or indecisive looking Kirk. Or OL who look like they were unable to get out of their stance due too being tired perhaps. WRs dropping passes, a defense that looks totally unprepared at times.

 

[Breed]

All true, of course I was taking things at face value where Rice actually did play consistently under the circumstances that you've outlined and with the rule changes as I mentioned. BTW: Isn't it also possible that Rice being the player that he was could have remained with SF and become the legend that he is and today still rank among the highest paid in history at the position? (A sort of Jordan in his day)

Sure that's possible far as Rice goes. But could the 9ers or the Redskins or the Giants, been able to keep their core members back in the day it was those 3 teams taking home Super Bowl trophies?

 

[Sharkinva]

Sure that's possible far as Rice goes. But could the 9ers or the Redskins or the Giants, been able to keep their core members back in the day it was those 3 teams taking home Super Bowl trophies?

The current system is all about Merchandising. The owners agreed to Free Agency because at the end of the day, you get more buzz when all 32 teams can say we have a shot to make it every year. Think about it, during the Rice, Riggins Gibbs era... you had a total of 8-10 teams that were a lock to make the playoffs year in and year out.

Now you have 3-5 new playoffs teams every year.

Its good for business.

 

[Stymietee]

Sure that's possible far as Rice goes. But could the 9ers or the Redskins or the Giants, been able to keep their core members back in the day it was those 3 teams taking home Super Bowl trophies?

That too is at question given those things that I mentioned along with rule changes. I have to be fair and say, I honestly don't know.

What I am sure of is that the record books would certainly look a lot different given the current rule changes applied to that time period.

 

[Breed]

The current system is all about Merchandising. The owners agreed to Free Agency because at the end of the day, you get more buzz when all 32 teams can say we have a shot to make it every year. Think about it, during the Rice, Riggins Gibbs era... you had a total of 8-10 teams that were a lock to make the playoffs year in and year out.

Now you have 3-5 new playoffs teams every year.

Its good for business.

Hey, I'm not near as jaded as some of y'all who apparently think the NFL is rigged.

 

[Sharkinva]

Hey, I'm not near as jaded as some of y'all who apparently think the NFL is rigged.

Oh I dont think its totally rigged. I do how ever think that there are some shady dealings designed to maintain the "competitive" balance as they put it.

 

[Breed]

That too is at question given those things that I mentioned along with rule changes. I have to be fair and say, I honestly don't know.

What I am sure of is that the record books would certainly look a lot different given the current rule changes applied to that time period.

I agree far as if today's rules applied to the 80s and what not. I'm just not sure if Lawrence Taylor or Joe Jacoby play for the same team with the same coach with the same coaching strategy for their entire career. If the FA we have today applied to teams back then.

 

[Breed]

Oh I dont think its totally rigged. I do how ever think that there are some shady dealings designed to maintain the "competitive" balance as they put it.

Is there such a thing as kinda rigged or a little rigged? Rigged is rigged and if it was ever discovered that the NFL was rigging its own product. That would be a disaster I'm not sure the NFL or any sports league would be able to overcome.