Game of Thrones

[ill]

Of course he wouldn't help Arya. That wouldn't be his game. Sansa is his creepy fetishistic stand-in for Cat. He wants to control Sansa again, and once again seriously underestimates her. He's just driving a wedge between the sisters, or trying to.

Could be wrong, but my bet is that it's actually SANSA who convinces Arya about Baelish's intent. Sansa after all got front row seats as to how manipulative and duplicitous Petyr is. Just like she had front row seats to the bastard of Bolton.

She's been playing LF for a long time now. Including getting him to bring to Knights of the Vale to the battle of the bastards.

I just have a hard time thinking Baelish, a veteran in this game, would be overtaken by Arya and Sansa so easily when they aren't seemingly working together. It feels like he is making an impression on Sansa despite her attempts to push him away. She is a little too gullible and naive in that sense. Both girls became stronger, but they are still just kids.

 

[chf]

Both girls became stronger, but they are still just kids.

After being married to Bolton, I don't think you could call anyone who survived a kid.

This ain't the smile of a kid.

 

[Orlando Eagles]

I just have a hard time thinking Baelish, a veteran in this game, would be overtaken by Arya and Sansa so easily when they aren't seemingly working together. It feels like he is making an impression on Sansa despite her attempts to push him away. She is a little too gullible and naive in that sense. Both girls became stronger, but they are still just kids.

LF is not at his best here as it has to do with Sansa. I honestly think the girls have talked and planned this. What's the point of such heated and,seemingly, personal spats? Because LF could have an eye anywhere at anytime.

Either that or Sansa is planning this out so far and I would expect a Godswood meeting with both girls and Bran where Sansa (and Bran) convince Arya make a plan.

It's just everything I saw last week from Sansa in interaction with LF that leads me thinking this way.

It's time for him to go....even these show runners have to see that. They just want to tease us a bit first before giving fan service. This is not the story of Ned or Robb (GRRM). This is the story of dispatching Ramsey with his dogs (showrunners writing).

 

[chf]

This is the story of dispatching Ramsey with his dogs (showrunners writing).

Did you read somewhere that GRRM's end for Ramsay is different?

 

[Orlando Eagles]

Did you read somewhere that GRRM's end for Ramsay is different?

Sigh....no, he is not yet dead in the books as I understand it. My point was that when it was going off the books it was almost anti fan service at points. But with the showrunners creating originally it is cheesy ass fan service at every turn.

I would imagine Ramsey's book death might be somewhere in GRRMs cheese burger encrusted brain.....but who knows anything on that end at this point.

 

[chf]

Sigh....no, he is not yet dead in the books as I understand it. My point was that when it was going off the books it was almost anti fan service at points. But with the showrunners creating originally it is cheesy ass fan service at every turn.

I would imagine Ramsey's book death might be somewhere in GRRMs cheese burger encrusted brain.....but who knows anything on that end at this point.

Just asking you a question, no sigh necessary. It wasn't an editorial comment.

I keep hearing more about 'fan service.' What exactly does everyone mean by that?

 

[CreepCreep2014]

So let me toss this out there. If Arya and Sansa are playing LF, then why was their last convo not in public? You would think they would want to make sure he is around to see it at least. I don't remember, but when Arya left Sansa in the room, was LF outside the door?? I don't think he was. SO that convo would not make sense if they are "setting" him up.

IDK....I agree something is going on, but I think it's Arya playing all of them and she needs Sansa to relay on LF for her plan to work...

 

[juliansteed]

So let me toss this out there. If Arya and Sansa are playing LF, then why was their last convo not in public? You would think they would want to make sure he is around to see it at least. I don't remember, but when Arya left Sansa in the room, was LF outside the door?? I don't think he was. SO that convo would not make sense if they are "setting" him up.

IDK....I agree something is going on, but I think it's Arya playing all of them and she needs Sansa to relay on LF for her plan to work...

Yeah, I guess that theory relies on the fact that they feel like they must always be in character because Littlefinger has eyes and ears everywhere. If this were King's Landing then he very well might, but I'm not so sure about the North. Whether he actually does or doesn't is secondary to what the Stark girls believe. Would they suspect that Littlefinger might know everything? Maybe he does have some very good spies in King's Landing and Bran was able to bring that to their attention off screen?

 

[SU Nittany Tide]

I still love GoT and will watch it to the end, but I have always been that way where when the logic doesn't make sense, I start to get bothered by it. It is sloppy writing and that is all there is to it. They were given a high level overview of what the end game is and it is up to them to get them there in the 2 remaining seasons. At this point, they are scrambling to close holes in the plot and wrap up characters they have no need for.

I am well aware that the world GRRM built is immense and D&D might have gotten too involved with characters they thought were going somewhere only to blow them up in the Sept, but again, it is sloppy writing because they were told "hey, you have 2 seasons to get this shit under control and finish it."

I have to wonder what the ratio of people massively complaining about the show to book readers is. It seems like the book readers have been waiting to pounce now that they are past the books. There are legitimate complaints here and there but the things people are complaining about are absolutely laughable at this point.

 

[juliansteed]

Next episode is called "The wolf and the dragon" (or the other way around maybe). Obviously that mostly refers to Jon and Daenerys. Maybe there will be a literal meaning to that title as well and ghost will actually make an appearance along with the dragons. I'm hoping maybe we'll see a flashback to the Tournament at Harenhall and see Rhaegar and Lyanna as well.

 

[SU Nittany Tide]

This is it in a nutshell with most of the writing issues... A simple little tweak to just make it make some sense.

Like nobody thought, you know, instead of chains, maybe some form of levitation, or (as someone previously suggested) or the Night King dives into the water and after some bubbling he emerges and a few seconds later the dragon with blue eyes' head slowly emerges from the water.... I mean NOBODY among the writers thought, "Where did they get all those industrial strength chains?

Well the Wildings did have chains like those on the giant mammoths.

 

[Taddy Mason]

Yeah, I guess that theory relies on the fact that they feel like they must always be in character because Littlefinger has eyes and ears everywhere. If this were King's Landing then he very well might, but I'm not so sure about the North. Whether he actually does or doesn't is secondary to what the Stark girls believe. Would they suspect that Littlefinger might know everything? Maybe he does have some very good spies in King's Landing and Bran was able to bring that to their attention off screen?

I think the scene where Arya sees him paying off one of the maids or what not would lend credence to the idea he has spies up there.

 

[SU Nittany Tide]

I also have to question if you can organize wights like that to pull a chain. I kind of imagine they can walk and fight...that's about it.

.......why make that assumption?

 

[Guy Incognito]

Well the Wildings did have chains like those on the giant mammoths.

You take that logic and thought right the fuck out of here, good sir.

A TV show involving dragons, 10,000 year old ice men, magic, at least two reanimated corpses that are different from the thousands of other reanimated corpses trying to kill everyone, a GIANT FUCKING WALL MADE OF ICE, and people taking mind control of animals must be more realistic and believable than this.

 

[Taddy Mason]

You take that logic and thought right the fuck out of here, good sir.

A TV show involving dragons, 10,000 year old ice men, magic, at least two reanimated corpses that are different from the thousands of other reanimated corpses trying to kill everyone, a GIANT FUCKING WALL MADE OF ICE, and people taking mind control of animals must be more realistic and believable than this.

Ughh, are we getting back to the fantasy can't have logic trope? I don't want to go there. Fuck, why did I come back to work after lunch. Shit, I'll post a bonus story in the daily thread, I'm so fuck bored and don't want to deal with this again.

 

[Guy Incognito]

Ughh, are we getting back to the fantasy can't have logic trope? I don't want to go there. Fuck, why did I come back to work after lunch. Shit, I'll post a bonus story in the daily thread, I'm so fuck bored and don't want to deal with this again.

More the "I'm willing to suspend disbelief for X, but Y (which is usually less of a stretch than X) is ridiculous!" than the "Fantasy can't have logic" argument.

 

[Taddy Mason]

More the "I'm willing to suspend disbelief for X, but Y (which is usually less of a stretch than X) is ridiculous!" than the "Fantasy can't have logic" argument.

Sounds the same to these ears.

 

[Guy Incognito]

Sounds the same to these ears.

"So, I'm cool with a 10,000 year old ice monster thing, and I'm cool with dragons, but these guys had chains?"

Like, they're planning to attack an ice wall. How were they going to bring it down, by hand?

 

[wildturkey]

as much as I love Arya being a badass, something about it feels very careless to me.

It feels careless because its halfbaked. People can bitch about nonsense like chains but its stuff like this Arya/Sansa plot that's really been hurt by the rushed season. Everyone is confused and trying to come up with theories because they just haven't spent enough time with it. Arya and Sansa had a warm(ish) reunion in the crypt and then it was like 0 to 100 of Arya don't trust nobody, gonna kill everybody. What's frustrating is all the ground work for the plot is there already. If they would have just added in extra scenes and dialogue (we're talking like 1 to 2 minutes an episode), things would become much more clear. You'd still get to whatever surprise awaits us at the end of this, but we'd have a clearer understanding of each character's (Arya, LF, Sansa) perspectives throughout. But as it stands, we're at the end of the run and no one has any clue what any of them are really doing.

This is the prime example of the problems with this season. The time jumps are explainable, the logic behind some of the character's decisions is forgivable, but short changing a big plot point with undercooked writing is not. There's no reason why they couldn't devote more time to it. They just chose not to and its suffered because of it

 

[Innermind]

So let me toss this out there. If Arya and Sansa are playing LF, then why was their last convo not in public? You would think they would want to make sure he is around to see it at least. I don't remember, but when Arya left Sansa in the room, was LF outside the door?? I don't think he was. SO that convo would not make sense if they are "setting" him up.

IDK....I agree something is going on, but I think it's Arya playing all of them and she needs Sansa to relay on LF for her plan to work...

It feels careless because its halfbaked. People can bitch about nonsense like chains but its stuff like this Arya/Sansa plot that's really been hurt by the rushed season. Everyone is confused and trying to come up with theories because they just haven't spent enough time with it. Arya and Sansa had a warm(ish) reunion in the crypt and then it was like 0 to 100 of Arya don't trust nobody, gonna kill everybody. What's frustrating is all the ground work for the plot is there already. If they would have just added in extra scenes and dialogue (we're talking like 1 to 2 minutes an episode), things would become much more clear. You'd still get to whatever surprise awaits us at the end of this, but we'd have a clearer understanding of each character's (Arya, LF, Sansa) perspectives throughout. But as it stands, we're at the end of the run and no one has any clue what any of them are really doing.

This is the prime example of the problems with this season. The time jumps are explainable, the logic behind some of the character's decisions is forgivable, but short changing a big plot point with undercooked writing is not. There's no reason why they couldn't devote more time to it. They just chose not to and its suffered because of it

I have a feeling the Sansa-Littlefinger-Arya plot-line has run its course and will be shut down pronto...perhaps even in the upcoming season finale this week.

How?

I finally think Bran will come forward to Arya and/or Sansa and reveal a bunch of visions he's experienced regarding the treacherous acts Littlefinger has committed over the years...including his conspiracy plot with Lysa Arryn to poison hand-of-the-king Jon Arryn.... and then pushing Jon Arryn's wife Lysa out the Moon Door.... and of course his betrayal of Ned Stark.... and also his conspiracy plot with Olenna Tyrell to poison Joffrey and allowing Sansa & Tyrion take the blame for it.

Methinks Littlefinger is a goner.

I wouldn't be surprised if Lord Royce of the Vale demands Littlefingers head.