Would you be happier?

[bbwvfan]

I get where you are coming from, considering the alternatives you guys did end up in the best possible place. as for the louisville argument who knows. Yes wvu & uconn are the two schools that are 1A & 1B on the ACCs shitlist. but if they had to chose between wvu & uconn I say they chose wvu.

One thing you have to consider now is that syracuse is now in the ACC and they are actually one of the biggest opponents to uconn's ACC membership. They don't want another school infringing on their stranglehold of the northeast. if i had to conduct a wishlist for the acc i would put it as follows
1. maryland
2. wvu
3. louisville
4. uconn

and heres my reasoning for it. louisville is a top 10 BB program however if conference realignment has taught us anything it is that BB matters very little. kansas was one of only 4 b12 schools (the other 3 being isu, ksu, & baylor) that has not been documented to have received and invite from another conference. uconn did not get an invite. and louisville needed to be saved by maryland before they go their invite. and even then they got in more because they had a very solid FB program at the time.

So to judge this move you really have to rely on football & markets.

pros:
Kentucky really has more population
better recruiting grounds
a rivalry with an SEC school

cons:
they are not a landgrant
they are the little brother school
share their state with an sec school
Geography

wvu
pros:
strong historical program (top 15 all time wins)
brings rivalries/historical connection with SU, vtech, pitt, BC, miami
landgrant
only power school in their state
geography

cons:
weaker market
no in state recruiting grounds
certain ACC schools hate them

truth is, it is close. However the b12 thought that wvu> louisville and if the b12 thought that then the ACC most likely will to because even though conferences have different tendencies their tendencies are similar enough in this case where they would both come to they same conclusion that wvu is the 5 star recruit and louisville is a 4 star recruit. I firmly believe that if wvu was available back then, they would of taken wvu with syracuse, FSU, clemson, BC, pitt, vtech as its biggest proponents and duke, uva, unc, wake, nc state as its biggest opponents. But at the end of the day.....
1. the football schools hold most of the power
2. the new schools hold a lot of power as well (contrary to popular belief)

While I know my opinion does not have more validity than yours, there has been a 50 year snub by the ACC involving WVU. Most of the schools that were original members of the ACC, belonged to the Southern Conference… to which WVU was also a member. When the vote for adding WVU to the original cast of schools was made… WVU was left out. Back in 2003, the ACC at first invited Miami, SU and BC… VA politics played a role in VT getting the invite instead of SU. But, no WVU invite! In 2011, both Pitt and SU were given an invite to the ACC… but, not WVU! So, I have a hard time believing an invite was forthcoming. All of the WVU insiders… to include a friend of mine who is friends with Luck… have claimed a UNC and Duke snub of WVU, and that WVU would never get an ACC offer.

There is no logical way one can assume WVU would have been invited to the ACC. WVU is not a traditionally rich basketball school like SU and Pitt. One can add either UofL or UConn to the mix for the ACC… which prides itself on its basketball tradition.

You have to be kidding with your idea that SU would oppose a UConn membership in the ACC. I live in Syracuse, and I know and live with many of the staff… football and basketball coaches… former coaches… assistant athletic directors. One thing I can say with authority… SU would love to still be in the BE playing all of its traditional rivalries… to include WVU and UConn.

Actually, when it came time for the Big 12 to find a 10th team to replace Mizzou, it was FOX who brought the most influence with the remaining Big 12 schools pushing for WVU's invitation. WVU had some of ESPN's highest rated football broadcasts, and the exec's felt WVU was more of a national brand. But, UofL had deep connections with OU's president as Kentucky senator Mitch McConnell was leveraging influence.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/27/sports/ncaafootball/big-12-may-admit-louisville-not-west-virginia.html?_r=0

There were reports of BC balking on a UConn invite to the ACC… with influence from ESPN. So, if you want to claim a school which may be against UConn's inclusion, you could point a finger at BC… but, not SU. But, UConn has more prestige in the areas that matter to the ACC… academics and basketball.

Oh yeah… and, they ain't inbred hillbillies!

Boston College AD: No UConn In ACC; It's A Matter Of "Turf" - Hartford Courant

Boston College AD Confirms ESPN ?Told Them What To Do? Regarding Expansion and His School Blocked Connecticut | The Big Lead

The influence of ESPN in all of this is quite interesting. One of our posters started a thread on Maryland's suit against the ACC. Maryland is ready to disclose some dirty laundry in the suit… if needed. Should be interesting to see how things work out.

The ACC is the weakest of the power 5 conferences. As WVU has already been on the receiving end of UofV's band mocking the hillbilly stereotype… twice, and with Tarheel state fans still protesting the behavior of WVU fans at football games, I have no problem with where we landed. The Big 12 is a great conference, the travel issues have been worked out since the first year. The fans from visiting Big 12 teams have raved about their experience in Morgantown… tailgating with the WVU faithful… and visiting the beautiful state of WV.

The same would not be said of the ACC snobs…

Outside of Pitt, VT, FSU and Clemson… I would not be excited about playing any of the ACC. I am much more excited about OU, UT, OSU, BU and KSU than any of the schools mentioned above.

Luck has reached out to VT and Pitt about playing OOC games. That will work for me.

 

[WVUDAD]

John, not calling names, but you really have no clue. The ACC is driven by the basketball schools. The ACC will not and never will accept WVU. They have had a dozen chances and never would.

If the ACC was going to add us they sure as hell would have taken us over sPITT to begin with. What does sPITT have to offer? We share the same TV market, sPITT is little more then a Glorified Community College. They have like 3 fans show up for their home games. You could buy tickets to their game vs UCONN a few years ago for $1. There was like 5,000 WVU fans there that night that were rooting for UCONN. UCONN had more WVU fans there then sPITT had.

UCONN will never get an invite either, they sunk their ship with the lawsuit after first raid.

Mike, the first ACC raid of the BE was about football, Miami, BC, and 'Cuse (their origional targets) then their final targets, VPI, Miami, BC were more football than roundball, the second raid, going after sPitt and 'Cuse was for basketball. Why do you say WVU over sPitt???? Historically sPitt trumps WVU in damn near every category. UConn was no more in on the lawsuit than sPitt, 'Cuse, VPI or WVU. I firmly believe, and I may be wrong, that had UL got the B12 invite, WVU would be in UL's spot going into the ACC for next year, rejoining our rivals, whether the ACC likes WVU or not, we would be the greatest value on the table when UMD bailed to the B11, greed trumps all else, and WVU would have been the school available that would have brought the most to the table. Who else would they have taken????

 

[john01992]

The louisville AD has gone on the record saying the biggest proponents of Louisville in the acc was duke,syracuse, clemson, & FSU with syracuse/duke playing the biggest role.

Louisville Magazine - MAR 2013
^^^^^^
i cant copy/paste from the article. but if you are curious i suggest you read it and somewhere in there there is a quote: "we knew (name of SU AD) & (name of duke AD) were doing the talking for us"

also
Syracuse Pushed For Louisville Over UConn, Says Louisville - Troy Nunes Is An Absolute Magician

uconn is not as well liked by SU as you give us credit for. we have nova, sju & gtown on our ooc but not uconn.

i do get where you are coming from with wvu & their past history with the acc. but the pitt/cuse additions was a major change for the conference and ever since then they conference is less & less tobacco road oriented. the loss of UMD was a major wakeup call for the conference and ever since then they have started to take things more seriously and are making moves that are more about the benefit of the overall conference than 4 NC schools.

 

[WVUDAD]

The louisville AD has gone on the record saying the biggest proponents of Louisville in the acc was duke,syracuse, clemson, & FSU with syracuse/duke playing the biggest role.

Louisville Magazine - MAR 2013
^^^^^^
i cant copy/paste from the article. but if you are curious i suggest you read it and somewhere in there there is a quote: "we knew (name of SU AD) & (name of duke AD) were doing the talking for us"

also
Syracuse Pushed For Louisville Over UConn, Says Louisville - Troy Nunes Is An Absolute Magician

uconn is not as well liked by SU as you give us credit for. we have nova, sju & gtown on our ooc but not uconn.

i do get where you are coming from with wvu & their past history with the acc. but the pitt/cuse additions was a major change for the conference and ever since then they conference is less & less tobacco road oriented. the loss of UMD was a major wakeup call for the conference and ever since then they have started to take things more seriously and are making moves that are more about the benefit of the overall conference than 4 NC schools.

Your right on John, with each and every former BE school added to the ACC, Duke and UNC hold less power. HAD UL been chosen over WVU for the B12 WVU WOULD have been invited to the ACC into the spot UL now sits in. The ACC was ALMOST as desperate as the B12 was..............

 

[john01992]

Your right on John, with each and every former BE school added to the ACC, Duke and UNC hold less power. HAD UL been chosen over WVU for the B12 WVU WOULD have been invited to the ACC into the spot UL now sits in. The ACC was ALMOST as desperate as the B12 was..............

yeah you are 100% correct

while the influx of BE members played a role. I am sure another big factor was that tobacco road started to realize that being too North carolina centric was hurting those 4 schools a lot more than it was helping them. And this isn't limited to the ACC. In conf. realignment the pac12, & big12 also radically overhauled their conferences for more equal revenue sharing and changing the political dynamic of those conferences to be less texas & california centric. Everyone is starting to realize that the NFL/big 10 blueprint is the most successful. Conferences acting as one solid block will have a much easier time negotiating TV contracts.

 

[Wheat]

poor johnnie, still butt hurt that nobody cares about yer buffs and that they left the BIG 12....and yes, you are a troll, but not a very good one.

 

[GoldRusher]

Mike, the first ACC raid of the BE was about football, Miami, BC, and 'Cuse (their origional targets) then their final targets, VPI, Miami, BC were more football than roundball, the second raid, going after sPitt and 'Cuse was for basketball. Why do you say WVU over sPitt???? Historically sPitt trumps WVU in damn near every category. UConn was no more in on the lawsuit than sPitt, 'Cuse, VPI or WVU. I firmly believe, and I may be wrong, that had UL got the B12 invite, WVU would be in UL's spot going into the ACC for next year, rejoining our rivals, whether the ACC likes WVU or not, we would be the greatest value on the table when UMD bailed to the B11, greed trumps all else, and WVU would have been the school available that would have brought the most to the table. Who else would they have taken????

I tend to agree with you, The ACC move (like the B12 taking WVU) was out of desperation and agree with john the ACC got an attitude adjustment when the BIG took UM AND when the Big12 came calling for FSU and Clemson and they started listening.
WVU STILL did the right thing because at the time as john said, the ACC thought it was better than it actually was and it was never going to take WVU, especially after just getting sPitt only an hour away(same reason imo UConn is now on the outside looking in with BC being close)
, Luck and co. did the right thing, the fan base would have tarred and feathered him had we passed on a B12 invite and rightly so.

 

[john01992]

poor johnnie, still butt hurt that nobody cares about yer buffs and that they left the BIG 12....and yes, you are a troll, but not a very good one.

it looks like you are still butthurt that CU was good enough to get an unconditional invite from the pac12 & OU wasn't

 

[john01992]

I tend to agree with you, The ACC move (like the B12 taking WVU) was out of desperation and agree with john the ACC got an attitude adjustment when the BIG took UM AND when the Big12 came calling for FSU and Clemson and they started listening.
WVU STILL did the right thing because at the time as john said, the ACC thought it was better than it actually was and it was never going to take WVU, especially after just getting sPitt only an hour away(same reason imo UConn is now on the outside looking in with BC being close)
, Luck and co. did the right thing, the fan base would have tarred and feathered him had we passed on a B12 invite and rightly so.

yeah you can't blame luck for not having a magic crystal ball that see's the future. I am sure when louisville joined the acc a lot of wvu admins did a

but like you said wvu made the best possible move considering the options they had on the table at the time.

 

[WVUDAD]

I wonder what the NEXT round is going to bring, I think the B12 will die the next time the PAC and B11 decide to expand, with quite a few ADs and school presidents BEGGING Slive and Swofford for those last two spots in each of those leagues.

 

[john01992]

I wonder what the NEXT round is going to bring, I think the B12 will die the next time the PAC and B11 decide to expand, with quite a few ADs and school presidents BEGGING Slive and Swofford for those last two spots in each of those leagues.

I think things will be quiet for the next couple of years.

the only 3 real possibilities are

1. the b12 expands for a ccg. takes any 2 of the following BYU, csu, new mexico, cincy, usf,ucf

2. Notre dame commits to the ACC. ACC adds uconn, cincy, or wvu as its 16th or tries for KU, ksu + wvu for 18

3. a decade from now the texahoma & pac12 come to the same conclusion that their combining to form a pac18 is the only way they will ever be able to match the combined wealth/attendance/tv ratings of the SEC/b10

i think a b12 breakup is inevitable, but WVU has a huge advantage with having geography on their side. a b12 breakup means a pac16 or sec16 and any way you slice it one of the 2 southern conferences (acc or sec) will be looking to expand to match what the other southern conference is doing.

 

[WVUDAD]

I think things will be quiet for the next couple of years.

the only 3 real possibilities are

1. the b12 expands for a ccg. takes any 2 of the following BYU, csu, new mexico, cincy, usf,ucf

2. Notre dame commits to the ACC. ACC adds uconn, cincy, or wvu as its 16th or tries for KU, ksu + wvu for 18

3. a decade from now the texahoma & pac12 come to the same conclusion that their combining to form a pac18 is the only way they will ever be able to match the combined wealth/attendance/tv ratings of the SEC/b10

i think a b12 breakup is inevitable, but WVU has a huge advantage with having geography on their side. a b12 breakup means a pac16 or sec16 and any way you slice it one of the 2 southern conferences (acc or sec) will be looking to expand to match what the other southern conference is doing.

I think option one is dead now, the B12 has said they are not adding anyone who will bring the per school payout down
option 2 is something to think about, but ND will have to be forced into it by other leagues (B11) not scheduling them
option three is where I think it is headed, UT, TT, OU, OSU going to the PAC, IAST and KU going to the B11, and WVU, Baylor, KSU, and TCU scrambling to compete with Cincy, UConn, USF, and UCF for those ACC and SEC spots. In MY opinion, WVU is the best of that bunch, BUT it is all about TV markets, NOT quality of the programs. AND if WVU doesn't get the money sports turned around QUICK, WVU will be of no value to one of them.

 

[john01992]

I think option one is dead now, the B12 has said they are not adding anyone who will bring the per school payout down
option 2 is something to think about, but ND will have to be forced into it by other leagues (B11) not scheduling them
option three is where I think it is headed, UT, TT, OU, OSU going to the PAC, IAST and KU going to the B11, and WVU, Baylor, KSU, and TCU scrambling to compete with Cincy, UConn, USF, and UCF for those ACC and SEC spots. In MY opinion, WVU is the best of that bunch, BUT it is all about TV markets, NOT quality of the programs. AND if WVU doesn't get the money sports turned around QUICK, WVU will be of no value to one of them.

you are correct that markets do drive the boat. But looking at things where they stand now the ACC has the largest blueprint by far. this means........

1) finding new markets isn't the ACCs biggest priority right now. Finding more competitive programs (like what wvu is) is one of their big priorities right now.

2) UCF, cincy, usf would all be nice, but they are partial markets that only bring part of a state. WVU on the other hand brings their entire state and has alumni focused in PA & MD which will go a long way in helping the ACC get as much of a grip in those area's as the b10 has.

the only schools that can compete with wvu market for market are:
schools in the b12 that would be geographic outliers within the acc and uconn

 

[WVUDAD]

you are correct that markets do drive the boat. But looking at things where they stand now the ACC has the largest blueprint by far. this means........

1) finding new markets isn't the ACCs biggest priority right now. Finding more competitive programs (like what wvu is) is one of their big priorities right now.

2) UCF, cincy, usf would all be nice, but they are partial markets that only bring part of a state. WVU on the other hand brings their entire state and has alumni focused in PA & MD which will go a long way in helping the ACC get as much of a grip in those area's as the b10 has.

the only schools that can compete with wvu market for market are:
schools in the b12 that would be geographic outliers within the acc and uconn

I was REALLY hoping that Mizzou would stay in the B12, they said in the papers that WVU was next on the SECs wish list...... WVU DOES have history with a few SEC schools, unlike the B12. Of course WVU BELONGS with most of the rest of the old Eastern independent schools, sPitt, VPI, Miami, 'Cuse, BC, FSU, etc. PLUS, the teams in the ACC have as much or more pedigree than anyone in the B12.

Current ACC has 26 "national titles" current B12 has 20.

 

[mad2mc]

yeah you can't blame luck for not having a magic crystal ball that see's the future. I am sure when louisville joined the acc a lot of wvu admins did a

but like you said wvu made the best possible move considering the options they had on the table at the time.

Have to disagree with this statement. If the ACC was serious about WVU, they would have offered WVU a spot at the same time as 'Cuse and Pitt. They did the same thing as the BE by allowing Notre Dame a spot for their other teams. Notre Dame football will never join the ACC. Hopefully the ACC will hold their breathe as the BE did and pass out.

 

[bbwvfan]

John,

Here is an article I posted for another thread that deals with the Big 12 move.

http://www.wvgazette.com/Sports/201401200102

This is a WVU sportswriter who has covered WVU for quite some time. As you can see, he mocks the suggestion that WVU would end up in the ACC had the Big 12 taken UofL.

He understands the reality of WVU's relationship with the ACC.

 

[WVUDAD]

Have to disagree with this statement. If the ACC was serious about WVU, they would have offered WVU a spot at the same time as 'Cuse and Pitt. They did the same thing as the BE by allowing Notre Dame a spot for their other teams. Notre Dame football will never join the ACC. Hopefully the ACC will hold their breathe as the BE did and pass out.

When they invited UL, they were desperate for the best on the table, had UL got the B12 invite, WVU would have been the best on the table.

 

[bbwvfan]

When they invited UL, they were desperate for the best on the table, had UL got the B12 invite, WVU would have been the best on the table.

Why would it matter if WVU was the best on the table? When it comes to ACC expansion, what factors influenced their decision in each time period?

 

[GoldRusher]

Notre Dame football will never join the ACC.

I agree unless the ACC figures out a way to make more money than the B12,PAC,BIG and SEC. Every one of those programs would take ND football in less than a heartbeat and every one make more money than the ACC, the Irish wont be taking a paycut to join a conference as a full member.

 

[GoldRusher]

Why would it matter if WVU was the best on the table? When it comes to ACC expansion, what factors influenced their decision in each time period?

I honestly believe they thought they were set long term after getting Pitt and SU and their hoops. The BIG then showed them how tv markets were the new gold standard.