Will Lebron ever surpass Bird at the SF GOAT?

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

No, I really do.

Derek Harper was one of the best hand checkers out there because he was physically stronger than the players he was guarding. He put his hand on them and was able to stop their momentum. A hand check from a Steve Kerr did not have the same affect.

So explain your statement that hand checking would help LBJ, please.

 

[Shanemansj13]

So explain your statement that hand checking would help LBJ, please.

Bc he is physically stronger LMAO. He already is one of the best defenders of all-time, you give him hand-checking and it only helps his defense; meanwhile, on offense it won't affect him as much as it would most players because again he is just bigger and stronger.

 

[tlance]

Bc he is physically stronger LMAO. He already is one of the best defenders of all-time, you give him hand-checking and it only helps his defense; meanwhile, on offense it won't affect him as much as it would most players because again he is just bigger and stronger.

Thanks Shane!

Did not think I would have to spell it out like that. Seems like common sense. The player with more strength benefits most.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

Bc he is physically stronger LMAO. He already is one of the best defenders of all-time, you give him hand-checking and it only helps his defense; meanwhile, on offense it won't affect him as much as it would most players because again he is just bigger and stronger.

Your explanation just shows you do not understand hand checking.

The advantage on D is obvious but you couldn't be more wrong on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

Thanks Shane!

Did not think I would have to spell it out like that. Seems like common sense. The player with more strength benefits most.

I see you really don't understand hand checking.

 

[tlance]

I see you really don't understand hand checking.

LOL.

What I am saying is that the stronger player gains more of an advantage because their hand check does more to impede their opponent. That is 100% correct. I hope you are not trying to claim otherwise.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

LOL.

What I am saying is that the stronger player gains more of an advantage because their hand check does more to impede their opponent. That is 100% correct. I hope you are not trying to claim otherwise.

Do you think LBJ would be the strongest on the court night in and night out? And strength isn't the end all be all when it comes to hand checking.

Here is an excerpt.

Ever notice the way point guards used to back their way down the court, using their wide posteriors as a way to shield off defenders? It's because of hand-checking, which allowed defenders to stick their forearms into their man's chest to impede their progress towards the rim. With that kind of advantage, the best way to prevent defenders from poking at the ball was to make them hand-check the back.

The hand-check gave a second life to so many slow perimeter players. Craig Ehlo would have been fried in this era unless he developed some lateral quickness, for example. But he ultimately was the man tasked with checking Jordan, and despite some memorable failures, he was better at it than most.

This is a world LeBron James never knew. At his size, James would have been physically imposing in any area, but he's especially difficult to contend with when he's able to get a full head of steam against a player who cannot hand-check. Hand-checking was a proactive defensive measure; without that tactic, defenders must react to James by sliding their feet to beat him to the spot. Tough to do when he can drive through any bit of contact that results from being late.

The hand check helps redirect the ball handler. And to say that LBJ would just go through anybody's hand check, well...

 

[tlance]

Do you think LBJ would be the strongest on the court night in and night out? And strength isn't the end all be all when it comes to hand checking.

Here is an excerpt.

Ever notice the way point guards used to back their way down the court, using their wide posteriors as a way to shield off defenders? It's because of hand-checking, which allowed defenders to stick their forearms into their man's chest to impede their progress towards the rim. With that kind of advantage, the best way to prevent defenders from poking at the ball was to make them hand-check the back.

The hand-check gave a second life to so many slow perimeter players. Craig Ehlo would have been fried in this era unless he developed some lateral quickness, for example. But he ultimately was the man tasked with checking Jordan, and despite some memorable failures, he was better at it than most.

This is a world LeBron James never knew. At his size, James would have been physically imposing in any area, but he's especially difficult to contend with when he's able to get a full head of steam against a player who cannot hand-check. Hand-checking was a proactive defensive measure; without that tactic, defenders must react to James by sliding their feet to beat him to the spot. Tough to do when he can drive through any bit of contact that results from being late.

The hand check helps redirect the ball handler. And to say that LBJ would just go through anybody's hand check, well...

I know what hand checking is and I have actually played basketball. When somebody significantly bigger and stronger than me hand checks, I can't go anywhere. When somebody my size does, I can still get through it.

Quote all the excerpts you want, but that really just reinforces my point. Bigger, slower perimeter players had a chance with hand checking. Bird's hand check could only slow LeBron but so much because he is the more powerful player. He can and would still get to his spot eventually in a 1 on 1 game. A hand check might slow LeBron enough to keep him off his spot in a 5 on 5 game with help defenders, but not in a 1 on 1 contest.

Also, this excerpt just makes me laugh at everyone who glamorizes the 90s style of play. I am not saying you are doing that, but it really was bad basketball watching guys line Derek Harper back his man down the court and Barkley back his man in from beyond the 3 point line. The game is infinitely better without the hand check.

 

[tlance]

Do you think LBJ would be the strongest on the court night in and night out? And strength isn't the end all be all when it comes to hand checking.

Here is an excerpt.

Ever notice the way point guards used to back their way down the court, using their wide posteriors as a way to shield off defenders? It's because of hand-checking, which allowed defenders to stick their forearms into their man's chest to impede their progress towards the rim. With that kind of advantage, the best way to prevent defenders from poking at the ball was to make them hand-check the back.

The hand-check gave a second life to so many slow perimeter players. Craig Ehlo would have been fried in this era unless he developed some lateral quickness, for example. But he ultimately was the man tasked with checking Jordan, and despite some memorable failures, he was better at it than most.

This is a world LeBron James never knew. At his size, James would have been physically imposing in any area, but he's especially difficult to contend with when he's able to get a full head of steam against a player who cannot hand-check. Hand-checking was a proactive defensive measure; without that tactic, defenders must react to James by sliding their feet to beat him to the spot. Tough to do when he can drive through any bit of contact that results from being late.

The hand check helps redirect the ball handler. And to say that LBJ would just go through anybody's hand check, well...

Also,

Pretty funny that you specifically mention Ehlo vs. Jordan as an example of "successful" hand checking. 6 of MJ's 34 career 50 point games came against Ehlo including his career high of 69. Nobother opponent yielded more than 4.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Your explanation just shows you do not understand hand checking.

The advantage on D is obvious but you couldn't be more wrong on the offensive side of the ball.

It isn't just about strength, but we all know LBJ is one of the elite defenders ever so I really don't understand the logic you are TRYING to make. On the offensive side, it is going to be a disadvantage for EVERY player offensively. The defense has the advantage but when you are a more physical specimen a little hand check isn't going to do AS MUCH to a player like Lebron. I know it's difficult for you to understand with that pea brain

You obviously have never played the game. Usually in pick-up games hand checking will go on frequently, you were most likely a cheerleader lol

 

[Shanemansj13]

Do you think LBJ would be the strongest on the court night in and night out? And strength isn't the end all be all when it comes to hand checking.

Here is an excerpt.

Ever notice the way point guards used to back their way down the court, using their wide posteriors as a way to shield off defenders? It's because of hand-checking, which allowed defenders to stick their forearms into their man's chest to impede their progress towards the rim. With that kind of advantage, the best way to prevent defenders from poking at the ball was to make them hand-check the back.

The hand-check gave a second life to so many slow perimeter players. Craig Ehlo would have been fried in this era unless he developed some lateral quickness, for example. But he ultimately was the man tasked with checking Jordan, and despite some memorable failures, he was better at it than most.

This is a world LeBron James never knew. At his size, James would have been physically imposing in any area, but he's especially difficult to contend with when he's able to get a full head of steam against a player who cannot hand-check. Hand-checking was a proactive defensive measure; without that tactic, defenders must react to James by sliding their feet to beat him to the spot. Tough to do when he can drive through any bit of contact that results from being late.

The hand check helps redirect the ball handler. And to say that LBJ would just go through anybody's hand check, well...

Do you really think a hand check is stopping Lebron with a full head of steam??? I mean seriously. This isn't Mike Bibby. Like I said from the defensive side, this helps him more...offensively it isn't going to affect him as much as YOU think. But this is coming from the guy that facepalms every post about Lebron and has a hatred for him so I understand your extreme bias.

 

[trojanfan12]

It isn't just about strength, but we all know LBJ is one of the elite defenders ever so I really don't understand the logic you are TRYING to make. On the offensive side, it is going to be a disadvantage for EVERY player offensively. The defense has the advantage but when you are a more physical specimen a little hand check isn't going to do AS MUCH to a player like Lebron. I know it's difficult for you to understand with that pea brain

You obviously have never played the game. Usually in pick-up games hand checking will go on frequently, you were most likely a cheerleader lol

Do you really think a hand check is stopping Lebron with a full head of steam??? I mean seriously. This isn't Mike Bibby. Like I said from the defensive side, this helps him more...offensively it isn't going to affect him as much as YOU think. But this is coming from the guy that facepalms every post about Lebron and has a hatred for him so I understand your extreme bias.

I agree with almost everything in these posts.

Handchecking can be an effective form of defense against virtually any player. The reason is because the handcheck is used to redirect a player into a different direction, not to stop them. So, if a guy is trying to drive straight to the hoop or to get to a certain spot on the floor, a handcheck is used to change his route. He may still get to his spot, but the longer route he is forced to take, allows defensive help to arrive.

Using it against someone Lebron's size isn't going to be as effective as against someone say Tony Parker or Kyrie Irvings size because, while Lebron can still be redirected with a handcheck, even from a smaller player, he's not going to be pushed as far off course because of his size and strength. However, he could be pushed far enough off course for help to arrive.

Really, the only thing I disagree with is the "Lebron with a full head of steam" part. A handcheck isn't going to work against any player with a full head of steam because he will have too much momentum. If a handcheck does stop a player with a full head of steam, it's going to be a foul because it would literally have to be a push or a forearm shiver.

 

[tebowGOAT]

Hell no.

You can'y jump from team to team with fellow superstars in a historically weak conference and pass a player like Bird.

 

[flyerhawk]

Hell no.

You can'y jump from team to team with fellow superstars in a historically weak conference and pass a player like Bird.

So Wilt and Shaq aren't all time great players?

I don't think Lebron can control the quality of his competition.

 

[tebowGOAT]

So Wilt and Shaq aren't all time great players?

I don't think Lebron can control the quality of his competition.

Huh?

 

[flyerhawk]

Huh?

Lebron has played with all of one Hall of Famer in his career. Wade. Maybe Irving will be one as well.

When did Bird NOT play with AT LEAST one Hall of Famer? In fact he had at least 2 OTHER Hall of Famers on his championship teams and 3 Hall of Famers in 2 of the 3.

 

[elw4corps]

Pretty sure he already has. The only question now is where he will rank among MJ, Kareem, Magic, and Kobe.

 

[UK Cowboy]

He already has

 

[Gman]

I'm a huge Celtics fan... and even I can admit, LeBron has surpassed Bird.

Bron's defense and versatility puts him over the top.

It's not even a great debate at this point, IMO. That's a credit to LeBron rather than anything negative towards Bird...

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Pretty sure he already has. The only question now is where he will rank among MJ, Kareem and Magic.

I say no because only Lebron built his own teams -