Will Lebron ever surpass Bird at the SF GOAT?

[Shanemansj13]

Lebron has averaged more points, rebounds are identical and Magic averaged more assists. As far as individual honors such as all star game appearances, first team all nba etc., it's basically dead even. In a couple of those, Lebron has one more award than Magic, which is explained by Lebron playing 1 more year (so far).

So, Lebron and Magic are pretty well even and both trail MJ and Kareem. Nod in the rankings goes to Magic because 5>3. Which is why I always say that rings are the tiebreaker. Lebron and Magic are a great example of how the differences between all time greats are so razor thin most of the time.

Like I said, having Kareem gives Magic the advantage but edge still goes to Magic. The thing is Lebron is a much better scorer than Magic ever was. Magic is underrated in that department for the fact he looked to pass the ball. Overall, it is pretty close.

 

[trojanfan12]

Bird would be shooting a lot of contested jumpers

Yeah, he's never had to do that before. lol

Larry gets the ball first, I'm taking him.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Like I said, having Kareem gives Magic the advantage but edge still goes to Magic. The thing is Lebron is a much better scorer than Magic ever was. Magic is underrated in that department for the fact he looked to pass the ball. Overall, it is pretty close.

one of the things about Magic that i think naturally happens is that people kind of remember him just at his very peak. Must guys you get to see the end of their careers- and see them breaking down and no good anymore. Everyone will always remember Magic at his very best because thats pretty much all there was.

 

[tlance]

Yeah, he's never had to do that before. lol

Larry gets the ball first, I'm taking him.

Well, that would not be a very wise bet.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yeah, he's never had to do that before. lol

Larry gets the ball first, I'm taking him.

I don't put much stock in one on one battles. They are a bad way to judgment basketball ability for a team sport. Different positions bring different abilities to the table.

But if Larry Bird were to play Lebron James one on one, he would get absolutely decimated.

Sure, Larry can have the ball. And if he shoots 100% from the field and they are playing shot and ball, then he will win. Of course that applies to every person who has ever played basketball.

Assuming that Larry would not be able to sink every basket, he would be forced to defend Lebron which he could never do. Lebron is faster and stronger than Bird with a better handle.

Despite what certain 80s era video games would suggest, Larry Bird would be a terrible one on one player. His game was never about physical ability. It was about great basketball IQ, positional awareness and a great shot. Basketball IQ and positional awareness are meaningless in a one v one match.

To be fair, most big men would also have a very tough time in one on one matchups. A guy like Kobe would eat them for lunch. Heck a guy like Klay Thompson would eat them for lunch. They aren't capable of covering the entire backcourt against a guard.

 

[Logicallylethal]

Currently have Bron at 4 behind MJ, Magic, and Kareem

Bird, Hakeem, and Shaq I have as a close 5, 6, and 7

I have a hard time assessing Wilt's place on the all time list. Shaq to me was the most dominant big man I got to watch. Hakeem was the smoothest and David Robinson was the most skilled. Did not get the opportunity to watch Kareem, but based on his stats and accomplishments I couldn't rate him below 3.

Bron would need to win 2 more in my opinion to surpass Magic and Kareem definitively. One more and it'd be an interesting discussion depending on how Bron finishes his career statistically.

 

[tlance]

I don't put much stock in one on one battles. They are a bad way to judgment basketball ability for a team sport. Different positions bring different abilities to the table.

But if Larry Bird were to play Lebron James one on one, he would get absolutely decimated.

Sure, Larry can have the ball. And if he shoots 100% from the field and they are playing shot and ball, then he will win. Of course that applies to every person who has ever played basketball.

Assuming that Larry would not be able to sink every basket, he would be forced to defend Lebron which he could never do. Lebron is faster and stronger than Bird with a better handle.

Despite what certain 80s era video games would suggest, Larry Bird would be a terrible one on one player. His game was never about physical ability. It was about great basketball IQ, positional awareness and a great shot. Basketball IQ and positional awareness are meaningless in a one v one match.

To be fair, most big men would also have a very tough time in one on one matchups. A guy like Kobe would eat them for lunch. Heck a guy like Klay Thompson would eat them for lunch. They aren't capable of covering the entire backcourt against a guard.

This is right on.

Length matters a lot in 1 on 1. Guys who are long and still agile enough to defend in space have a huge advantage.

While I agree most big men would struggle against athletic wings, there are a couple I think who just might crush them. Guys like Hakeem and David Robinson moved fluidly enough that they might have been able to defend a Kobe or LeBron type player, and they would have bullied them on the other end.

But again, 1 on 1 is not basketball.

 

[flyerhawk]

I have a hard time assessing Wilt's place on the all time list. Shaq to me was the most dominant big man I got to watch. Hakeem was the smoothest and David Robinson was the most skilled. Did not get the opportunity to watch Kareem, but based on his stats and accomplishments I couldn't rate him below 3.

I neer saw Wilt play either. Way before my time. I did watch Kareem play and he was a beast. But from what I have read and looking at Wilt's numbers, he was a man among boys. He AVERAGED over 30 ppg and 20 rpg over his entire career. He also average 4.4 assists/g. They don't stats for the number of blocks. For the games that they do have block numbers he average 8.8 blocks/game. 8.8. The modern NBA record in a season is 5.5.

Bron would need to win 2 more in my opinion to surpass Magic and Kareem definitively. One more and it'd be an interesting discussion depending on how Bron finishes his career statistically.

It will be very interesting to measure LJ's career when it is all said and done. Unlike some of the guys he will be compared with, he hasn't played with a team of all-stars and HoFers his entire career.

 

[larryjohn]

This is right on.
Length matters a lot in 1 on 1. Guys who are long and still agile enough to defend in space have a huge advantage.
While I agree most big men would struggle against athletic wings, there are a couple I think who just might crush them. Guys like Hakeem and David Robinson moved fluidly enough that they might have been able to defend a Kobe or LeBron type player, and they would have bullied them on the other end.
But again, 1 on 1 is not basketball.

The one 1-on-1 tournament in NBA was in the 70s -- won by a center, Bob Lanier -- who would just back the other players down to the block.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

In the modern NBA you need a mans body and Lebron is a linebacker.

Steph Curry disagrees with you...

 

[flyerhawk]

The one 1-on-1 tournament in NBA was in the 70s -- won by a center, Bob Lanier -- who would just back the other players down to the block.

Yeah. He beat Jo Jo White in the finals. Different era though.

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

Go watch a Bird video on YouTube. He was absolutely great. But absolutely no way is he better then LeBron. No way no how.

 

[trojanfan12]

Sure, Larry can have the ball. And if he shoots 100% from the field and they are playing shot and ball, then he will win.

Which is why I said "If it's make it take it...I'm taking Bird."

Of course that applies to every person who has ever played basketball.

Except Bird would actually be able to do it and tell Lebron all about it while he was doing it.

 

[flyerhawk]

Which is why I said "If it's make it take it...I'm taking Bird."



Except Bird would actually be able to do it and tell Lebron all about it while he was doing it.

Larry Bird would be able to shoot 100% from the field? Was he just playing down to the competition when he was n the NBA?

 

[flyerhawk]

The one 1-on-1 tournament in NBA was in the 70s -- won by a center, Bob Lanier -- who would just back the other players down to the block.

I did some research on that tournament. Here were the participants...


Atlanta Hawks – Pete Maravich
Atlanta Hawks – Don May
Baltimore Bullets – Jack Marin
Baltimore Bullets – Mike Riordan
Boston Celtics – Garfield Smith
Boston Celtics – Jo Jo White
Buffalo Braves – Dick Garrett
Bufflao Braves – Bob Kauffman
Chicago Bulls – Bob Love
Chicago Bulls – Bob Weiss
Cincinnati Royals – Johnny Green
Cincinnati Royals – Nate Williams
Cleveland Cavaliers – Butch Beard
Cleveland Cavaliers – John Johnson
Detroit Pistons – Bob Lanier
Detroit Pistons – n/a
Houston Rockets – Mike Newlin
Houston Rockets – Rudy Tomjanovich
Golden State Warriors – Jeff Mullins
Golden State Warriors – Cazzie Russell
Los Angeles Lakers – Pat Riley
Los Angeles Lakers – John Trapp
Milwaukee Bucks – Lucius Allen
Milwaukee Bucks – Jon McGlocklin
New York Knicks – Jerry Lucas
New York Knicks – Eddie Miles
Philadelphia 76ers – Billy Cunningham
Philadelphia 76ers – Fred Foster
Phoenix Suns – Connie Hawkins
Phoenix Suns – Paul Silas
Portland Trail Blazers – Ron Knight
Portland Trail Blazers – Dale Schleuter
Seattle Supersonics – Lenny Wilkens
Seattle Supersonics – Lee Winfield

Pat Riley, Rudy Tomjanovich, Billy Cunnigham, Bob Weiss, Paul Silas, and Lenny Wilkins.

This thing was a coaching camp.

 

[trojanfan12]

Larry Bird would be able to shoot 100% from the field? Was he just playing down to the competition when he was n the NBA?

Uh seriously?!?

You do understand that we're talking about one 1 on 1 game and not an entire season, right?

 

[flyerhawk]

Uh seriously?!?

You do understand that we're talking about one 1 on 1 game and not an entire season, right?

Yes. Do you understand that Larry Bird would never get a free look at the basket and would be pressured with every shot? Yet you think that he would shoot 100% and never give up the ball?

That sort of reasoning suggests you have a greater familiarity with video game basketball than actual basketball.

 

[Wamu]

Yes. Do you understand that Larry Bird would never get a free look at the basket and would be pressured with every shot? Yet you think that he would shoot 100% and never give up the ball?

That sort of reasoning suggests you have a greater familiarity with video game basketball than actual basketball.

So you're saying Bird wasn't good under pressure?

 

[flyerhawk]

So you're saying Bird wasn't good under pressure?

Well he wasn't a 100% FG shooter while under pressure.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yes. Do you understand that Larry Bird would never get a free look at the basket and would be pressured with every shot? Yet you think that he would shoot 100% and never give up the ball?

That sort of reasoning suggests you have a greater familiarity with video game basketball than actual basketball.

Lol. And your reasoning tells me you've never seen Bird play. I'm sure Larry Bird has never hit 7-8 shots in a row (which is about how many it would take in a 1 on 1 game) in an NBA game while being pressured on every shot. Wow, talk about greater familiarity with video game basketball than actual basketball.

It's also funny that you are taking a joking back and forth about a game that will never happen so seriously.