POLL Who Is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?

[richig07]

Some people don't realize that some guys have ice in veins , shine and don't fold when the chips are down. Peyton was one of the best during reg season, once he got rattled in playoffs, it was all over. Only 2 4th Q comebacks in all his playoff games, AR has 1 and TB has 10. A few years ago 7 points was the biggest 2nd half deficit in the SB and the Pats were down 10 in the 4th Q vs Seattle and down 25 against ATL late in 3rd Q

No doubt, Brady has ice in his veins.

Only thing I'll say is just a tad bit misleading, is AR's post-season 4th quarter comebacks. He's nowhere near Brady, but only having one makes it appear that he's a choker. When you go through his post-season resume. He led in most 4th quarters, or was beaten by a superior team.

In 2010, when he won the SB, they led in all four 4th quarters vs PHI, ATL, CHI, PIT.

2011 was really his only possible "choke" vs NYG.

2012, beat up on Minnesota. Got beat up on by SF.

2013, came back to take SF to the wire, but Kaep went down the field and setup a GW FG as time expired in Lambeau. He also missed the second half of the season up until week 17. When he came back from a 4Q deficit, scored two TD's late and pulled off a crazy win in the final seconds to take the NFC North title from the Bears, in essentially a playoff game.

2014, I believe was the lone 4Q comeback vs Dallas and then they dominated Seattle. Only to lose on a miracle, onside kick and a score inside the last two minutes. Which he sat on the bench for. Then went down and tied the game in one minute. To force OT, which they lost immediately.

2015, they beat up on WSH, and then he forced OT on the final play of the game vs AZ and they never saw the ball in OT.

2016, he beat the hell out of NYG, then beat Dallas in a ridiculously tight game that he led the GW drive on. Then they got beat up on by ATL.


Brady is probably the most clutch QB of all-time and the GOAT, IMO. However, he has had a lot of legendary opportunities as well. I suppose that comes along with being good enough to create that. However, I can't fault Rodgers for his playoff wins being decisive and him not needing to comeback. Then, the fact that late in games, they have lost after he did his part... only to see the defense fail or meltdown. I think Rodgers has proven to be quite clutch as well.

 

[richig07]

Brady has made his share of mistakes in Super Bowls, Montana on the other hand never threw an int in a SB. Also Rodgers is not just some random QB, he is easily the highest rated QB to ever play the game.

Eh... game was different. The AFC was weak in those days, teams threw less and Montana won most of those SB's in pretty decisive manner. In his first Super Bowl, he only had to complete 14 passes for 157 yards.

Both of their SB numbers are pretty great.

 

[richig07]

I don't think anyone would argue against Brady earning his rings, but so did the other 52 men on those rosters. Oh yeah, and so did Bill Belichick, the rest of the coaching staff and the front office.

The Patriots have had a top 10 defense in over a dozen years Brady has been under center, and it took a top 10 defense to help win those Super Bowls. (Rodgers and the Packers could have won last year had their defense only given up 21 points.) The Packers have only had two top 10 defense with Rodgers, and he needed that defense to assist him in winning his Super Bowl.

I have watched every Packers game with Rodgers under center, and due to the fact that they're the Patriots,I have gotten to see a LOT of Brady's games. Brady has made some absolutely incredible plays. However, I have not seen a single play Brady made, that Aaron Rodgers hasn't equaled or topped. Their passing stats are amazingly similar over their career. However, Brady isn't anywhere near Rodger's level when it comes to mobility.

In the Packers playoff loss to the Giants several years ago, Rodgers ran seven times for almost 10 YPC, picking up seven first downs, Leading the team in rushing because he didn't have a running game to count on. Please show me a game where Brady had any kind of ground game like that. Add to this game, the receiver corp was credited with eight dropped passes. His one INT came on the last offensive play in the fourth quarter where the ball got tipped at the line of scrimmage. The Giants were the better team that day, you'll never hear me say otherwise, but Rodgers was the best player on the field, without question.

There is no clear-cut definition of GOAT. There's no formula that says "if you accomplish these tasks here, you are the GOAT". It is strictly a matter of opinion. Some people credit team accomplishments when they decide their opinion, others don't. I can't change the minds of people that disagree with me, and they are entitled to their opinions. And I'm entitled to mine. I'll take the QB that can make any throw the MSM GOAT can, plus add mobility this MSM GOAT can only dream of, any day of the week. The fact that Brady had top 10 defenses assist with his team accomplishments, doesn't weigh a whole lot to me when deciding who the GOAT is.

I don't think anyone would argue against Brady earning his rings, but so did the other 52 men on those rosters. Oh yeah, and so did Bill Belichick, the rest of the coaching staff and the front office.

Pretty disingenuous of you to act like a QB's performance isn't the most pivotal part to 99% of SB winning teams. We all know how far the weight of a QB's play goes. Which is why wins and rings do come into the equation on their individual resume.

The Patriots have had a top 10 defense in over a dozen years Brady has been under center, and it took a top 10 defense to help win those Super Bowls. (Rodgers and the Packers could have won last year had their defense only given up 21 points.) The Packers have only had two top 10 defense with Rodgers, and he needed that defense to assist him in winning his Super Bowl.

Rodgers had the league's #1 overall defense when he won his only Super Bowl. We'll take that Super Bowl off of the board for Rodgers then. Right?

Maybe it would have gotten Rodgers an additional ring. Maybe not. You're judged by what you accomplished. Not by what you MIGHT have accomplished in a hypothetical scenario.

Brady has made some absolutely incredible plays. However, I have not seen a single play Brady made, that Aaron Rodgers hasn't equaled or topped.

Well... you are looking at that through pretty thick Packers lenses.

It's easy for you to say that, since Rodgers visibly moves better than Brady. What makes Brady stand out isn't a physical tool. It's his phenomenal consistency. He is the most consistently accurate QB I have ever seen.

In the Packers playoff loss to the Giants several years ago, Rodgers ran seven times for almost 10 YPC, picking up seven first downs, Leading the team in rushing because he didn't have a running game to count on. Please show me a game where Brady had any kind of ground game like that. Add to this game, the receiver corp was credited with eight dropped passes. His one INT came on the last offensive play in the fourth quarter where the ball got tipped at the line of scrimmage. The Giants were the better team that day, you'll never hear me say otherwise, but Rodgers was the best player on the field, without question.

Huh? Show you where Brady ever ran for a bunch of yards? No shit I cannot. However, I can show you playoff games where he receiver little or no support from a run game or defense. Overcoming that in different ways than running, and winning. I mean, Brady didn't really have a good ground game this past year. In the Super Bowl, his RB's ran for 89 yards on 24 carries.

You don't think Brady has ever lost where he's been the best player on the field either?

I'll take the QB that can make any throw the MSM GOAT can, plus add mobility this MSM GOAT can only dream of, any day of the week.

Well, that's just false. Brady can make any throw that any QB has ever made... ever. No one is saying that he has anywhere near the mobility Rodgers does, but don't be silly about his accuracy and ability to thread the needle. Brady was better than any QB I have ever seen at the end of that SB.

I said myself that in terms of raw ability, Rodgers may be the GOAT. However, Brady has every accomplishment there is and the perfect resume. Rodgers really doesn't have anything on him... just on a pure resume basis. If he wins a couple more, we'll talk at the end of his career.

 

[sonnyblack65]

No doubt, Brady has ice in his veins.

Only thing I'll say is just a tad bit misleading, is AR's post-season 4th quarter comebacks. He's nowhere near Brady, but only having one makes it appear that he's a choker. When you go through his post-season resume. He led in most 4th quarters, or was beaten by a superior team.

In 2010, when he won the SB, they led in all four 4th quarters vs PHI, ATL, CHI, PIT.

2011 was really his only possible "choke" vs NYG.

2012, beat up on Minnesota. Got beat up on by SF.

2013, came back to take SF to the wire, but Kaep went down the field and setup a GW FG as time expired in Lambeau. He also missed the second half of the season up until week 17. When he came back from a 4Q deficit, scored two TD's late and pulled off a crazy win in the final seconds to take the NFC North title from the Bears, in essentially a playoff game.

2014, I believe was the lone 4Q comeback vs Dallas and then they dominated Seattle. Only to lose on a miracle, onside kick and a score inside the last two minutes. Which he sat on the bench for. Then went down and tied the game in one minute. To force OT, which they lost immediately.

2015, they beat up on WSH, and then he forced OT on the final play of the game vs AZ and they never saw the ball in OT.

2016, he beat the hell out of NYG, then beat Dallas in a ridiculously tight game that he led the GW drive on. Then they got beat up on by ATL.


Brady is probably the most clutch QB of all-time and the GOAT, IMO. However, he has had a lot of legendary opportunities as well. I suppose that comes along with being good enough to create that. However, I can't fault Rodgers for his playoff wins being decisive and him not needing to comeback. Then, the fact that late in games, they have lost after he did his part... only to see the defense fail or meltdown. I think Rodgers has proven to be quite clutch as well.

And it wasn't a knock on him by any means, he is a great and only halfway through his career, so time will tell.

 

[SeizeTheCarp]

I guess I'm trying to grasp this definition of "clutch" and being able to come from behind to win. Seems a lot of people think that you just need an elite QB to start putting points on the board in the second half. This all well and good, I can can see the logic, for the most part. But I, personally, feel you also need a defense that can stop the other team from scoring. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[sonnyblack65]

Brady has made his share of mistakes in Super Bowls, Montana on the other hand never threw an int in a SB. Also Rodgers is not just some random QB, he is easily the highest rated QB to ever play the game.

Sure he did but he also gave NE leads in all 7 SB's late in the game, to have the D give up scores with very little time left in both Giant losses and luckily Butler bailed him out after the D let Seattle go down the field in only 3 plays. Don't say easily the highest rated QB because the rules have changed since he came on in 08. Brady used to have the highest ts/int ratio before they enforced the no contact rule at like 2.7/1 and since 07 he is 4.19 the highest in the game, very slight above AR, Brady avg's a small pct more tds and 20 yards a game more. AR killes in running with the ball and best Hail Mary QB ever. To me Montana was the GOAT for 30 years but now with the 7 SB's and 11 AFCG, TB is the guy. I''l take Brady 8 days a week and sure GB fans will take AR. I watched NE win shit for 30 years and started of 5-13 with Belichick as coach before Brady took that same team to the SB 3 out of 4 years. Old time GBers remember Starr win a bunch, Then Favre go to 2 SB's and now AR, all we have had for success is TB

 

[sonnyblack65]

I guess I'm trying to grasp this definition of "clutch" and being able to come from behind to win. Seems a lot of people think that you just need an elite QB to start putting points on the board in the second half. This all well and good, I can can see the logic, for the most part. But I, personally, feel you also need a defense that can stop the other team from scoring. Maybe I'm wrong.

Your correct, you need both to win constantly, and obviously a D is much for important. PM is a perfect example, when Indy won in 06 he threw 3 td/7int and in SB vs Carolina he had like 140 yards 13 in a row 3 and outs and only scores 2 points on offense while the D scored 2 tds

 

[NWPATSFAN]

I guess I'm trying to grasp this definition of "clutch" and being able to come from behind to win. Seems a lot of people think that you just need an elite QB to start putting points on the board in the second half. This all well and good, I can can see the logic, for the most part. But I, personally, feel you also need a defense that can stop the other team from scoring. Maybe I'm wrong.

I'm thinking for you "clutch" equates to hail Mary efficency? A hail Mary = come back

 

[SeizeTheCarp]

Pretty disingenuous of you to act like a QB's performance isn't the most pivotal part to 99% of SB winning teams. We all know how far the weight of a QB's play goes. Which is why wins and rings do come into the equation on their individual resume.

99%? Really? One example: was Jim McMahon 99% responsible for the Bears' Super Bowl win?

Rodgers had the league's #1 overall defense when he won his only Super Bowl. We'll take that Super Bowl off of the board for Rodgers then. Right?

Maybe it would have gotten Rodgers an additional ring. Maybe not. You're judged by what you accomplished. Not by what you MIGHT have accomplished in a hypothetical scenario.

We'll take it off the board if you take all of Brady's off the board. You don't get what I'm saying. In the NFL it takes all 53 men to win. If Brady or Rodgers played defense or special teams, I'd probably say different. You think the Bears would have won a SB without Singletary? Or the Ravens without Lewis? Or the Packers, even, without Reggie White or Charles Woodson? Do you want me to go on?

Well, that's just false. Brady can make any throw that any QB has ever made... ever. No one is saying that he has anywhere near the mobility Rodgers does, but don't be silly about his accuracy and ability to thread the needle. Brady was better than any QB I have ever seen at the end of that SB.

I said myself that in terms of raw ability, Rodgers may be the GOAT. However, Brady has every accomplishment there is and the perfect resume. Rodgers really doesn't have anything on him... just on a pure resume basis. If he wins a couple more, we'll talk at the end of his career.

Brady is undoubtedly an elite QB. I'm not saying he can't make every throw. I'm just saying I have not seem him throw the hail mary's Rodgers has or that pass to Jared Cook in last year's playoffs. BTW, I only bring up the hail marys because he has completed so many recently, and they actually are designed plays. Normally I do credit the success of plays like that to both luck and ability, but Rodgers seems to have a "little more luck" when it comes to these plays.

Huh? Show you where Brady ever ran for a bunch of yards? No shit I cannot. However, I can show you playoff games where he receiver little or no support from a run game or defense. Overcoming that in different ways than running, and winning. I mean, Brady didn't really have a good ground game this past year. In the Super Bowl, his RB's ran for 89 yards on 24 carries.

You don't think Brady has ever lost where he's been the best player on the field either?

James White, in many people's opinion, was the true MVP of last year's SB. Two rushing TDs one receiving. Just saying.

 

[SeizeTheCarp]

I'm thinking for you "clutch" equates to hail Mary efficency? A hail Mary = come back

No. I think Clutch means having a defense that can stop the other team from scoring, while your offense makes its adjustments to start putting points on the board.

Last year, the Falcons put 20 second half points on the board against the Packers, while they put up 0 against the Patriots. Can we agree that that is a critical stat when comparing the two games?

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Pretty disingenuous of you to act like a QB's performance isn't the most pivotal part to 99% of SB winning teams. We all know how far the weight of a QB's play goes. Which is why wins and rings do come into the equation on their individual resume.

99%? Really? One example: was Jim McMahon 99% responsible for the Bears' Super Bowl win?

Rodgers had the league's #1 overall defense when he won his only Super Bowl. We'll take that Super Bowl off of the board for Rodgers then. Right?

Maybe it would have gotten Rodgers an additional ring. Maybe not. You're judged by what you accomplished. Not by what you MIGHT have accomplished in a hypothetical scenario.

We'll take it off the board if you take all of Brady's off the board. You don't get what I'm saying. In the NFL it takes all 53 men to win. If Brady or Rodgers played defense or special teams, I'd probably say different. You think the Bears would have won a SB without Singletary? Or the Ravens without Lewis? Or the Packers, even, without Reggie White or Charles Woodson? Do you want me to go on?

Well, that's just false. Brady can make any throw that any QB has ever made... ever. No one is saying that he has anywhere near the mobility Rodgers does, but don't be silly about his accuracy and ability to thread the needle. Brady was better than any QB I have ever seen at the end of that SB.

I said myself that in terms of raw ability, Rodgers may be the GOAT. However, Brady has every accomplishment there is and the perfect resume. Rodgers really doesn't have anything on him... just on a pure resume basis. If he wins a couple more, we'll talk at the end of his career.

Brady is undoubtedly an elite QB. I'm not saying he can't make every throw. I'm just saying I have not seem him throw the hail mary's Rodgers has or that pass to Jared Cook in last year's playoffs. BTW, I only bring up the hail marys because he has completed so many recently, and they actually are designed plays. Normally I do credit the success of plays like that to both luck and ability, but Rodgers seems to have a "little more luck" when it comes to these plays.

Huh? Show you where Brady ever ran for a bunch of yards? No shit I cannot. However, I can show you playoff games where he receiver little or no support from a run game or defense. Overcoming that in different ways than running, and winning. I mean, Brady didn't really have a good ground game this past year. In the Super Bowl, his RB's ran for 89 yards on 24 carries.

You don't think Brady has ever lost where he's been the best player on the field either?

James White, in many people's opinion, was the true MVP of last year's SB. Two rushing TDs one receiving. Just saying.

Wow you're actually trying to justify a hail Mary as an attribute to a great QB? Wow just wow. Of course it's a designed play. More appropriately a desperation play. If anything credit the receivers for pushing off and out jumping their opponents.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

No. I think Clutch means having a defense that can stop the other team from scoring, while your offense makes its adjustments to start putting points on the board.

Last year, the Falcons put 20 second half points on the board against the Packers, while they put up 0 against the Patriots. Can we agree that that is a critical stat when comparing the two games?

No because I think you're likely the only person on earth that uses that as a definition of clutch.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Read my entire post. And then we'll talk.

I did a couple times. Each time after waking up from reading your nonesense.

 

[SeizeTheCarp]

I did a couple times. Each time after waking up from reading your nonesense.

So I also said that Brady can make every throw. I'm sure he can throw a hail mary, too. I mean it's common knowledge that his arm strength isn't what Aaron's is so he can't throw it quite as far, but I'm certain he can throw it to where they practice it to be. I merely meant that the fact that Aaron has been able to complete so many where others have failed is one of those intangible traits that he has. Makes him just as elite as Brady for making uncanny throws. But then it's the mobility aspect that separates the two.

 

[Mondo Jay]

No it's not, the majority is sometimes right, sometimes it's not.

Sometimes you feel like a nut. Sometimes you don't.

 

[Mondo Jay]

Put Brady in that Falcon's offense and they would win 10 SB's in a row

Sometimes.

 

[sonnyblack65]

Sometimes.

You Mondo High volume nut!!!

 

[SeizeTheCarp]

Your correct, you need both to win constantly, and obviously a D is much for important. PM is a perfect example, when Indy won in 06 he threw 3 td/7int and in SB vs Carolina he had like 140 yards 13 in a row 3 and outs and only scores 2 points on offense while the D scored 2 tds

Thank you. And I don't mean to take anything away from Brady. The dude is elite and a guaranteed first ballot hall of famer. But you know what the defense had to do in last year's Super Bowl? They had to help make up for a pick six by their QB. Brady makes mistakes too, but fortunately for him he consistently has a better coach and/or a better defense to help him out when needed.

 

[sonnyblack65]

Thank you. And I don't mean to take anything away from Brady. The dude is elite and a guaranteed first ballot hall of famer. But you know what the defense had to do in last year's Super Bowl? They had to help make up for a pick six by their QB. Brady makes mistakes too, but fortunately for him he consistently has a better coach and/or a better defense to help him out when needed.

I know you didn't and I don't take things personally. Rodgers is still young and only half way through his career, so the sky is still the limit for him. You definitely need a good D and a good coach but also need to make the throws and 2 2 point conversions in a row. If you look at 2 common opponents that GB and NE has faced in the playoffs recently it's Seattle 2 years ago and ATL this year. 2 years ago Rodgers went 19-34 187 yards 1 td/2int with a 55.8 rating vs Seattle in NFCG and GB had a 16-0 lead ( 3 fgs on t/o's) Vs Seattle in the SB Brady was 37/50 328 yards 4tds/2int and a 101 rating, granted I think Seattle's secondary was banged up. Then this year vs Atl Rodgers was 27/45 3tds/int for 287 yards for a 91.6 rating and Brady vs ATL in SB was 42/62 for 466 yards 2tds/1int for a 95.2 rating. Brady imo didn't surpass Montana till like his 14-15 season and Rodgers has what played 8? When everything is said and done he might go out as best

 

[NWPATSFAN]

So I also said that Brady can make every throw. I'm sure he can throw a hail mary, too. I mean it's common knowledge that his arm strength isn't what Aaron's is so he can't throw it quite as far, but I'm certain he can throw it to where they practice it to be. I merely meant that the fact that Aaron has been able to complete so many where others have failed is one of those intangible traits that he has. Makes him just as elite as Brady for making uncanny throws. But then it's the mobility aspect that separates the two.

Ok we'll agree to disagree. First in your post you tried using a hail Mary as a quality to seperate AR from TB and others. Sorry it's not. It's all luck. Scramble giving your players enough time to get to the end zone. Chuck and duck and HOPE your players out jump the opponent for the ball. There is very little athleticism involved in it from the QB. The thing AR does better is he can scramble and throw deeper both physical abilities. 2nd you tried to make a comparison that a Hail Mary should be considered a come back and "clutch". Again we can agree to disagree.