White Sox/Tigers Midweek Redux

[ChiSoxFan]

3 down 1 to go. great baseball tonight and some clutch white sox stuff.

any word on robert?

Probable for tomorrow according to CBS sports.

 

[Mingo]

The White Sox has needed the expanded roster and them some. Keep rolling Sox - bring the broom out for these losers the Sox are inside their heads.

Dunning had a great first start in the MLB. Too bad he didn't get the win, but yes - keep him in the rotation for now.

Incarnation can get hot and carry a team. He was hitting with authority tonight.

Winning teams have different guys step up and carry the load from time to time. The Sox have the making of that kind of offensive team. I'm enjoying the season.

 

[richig07]

Well - you managed to circle the bases on me.

To claim predictability on any pitched ball - isn't necessarily bad - certainly leaves me speechless.

I do enjoy your takes - and if all I wanted to to is hear my own opinions - I wouldn't be here.

I enjoy your takes too, man. My favorite conversations are also about baseball theory/philosophy. Which is why I get into these talks. It's also why I get driven kind of crazy by people who seem to ignore the bigger picture.

This will be long, but it will be it for me on this. I promise. lol

I don't know if I completely understand what you mean with the bolded portion. I am not saying to do the same thing every time. Unless you're Wade Boggs, etc. and it's what makes you feel comfortable. It's also clear Anderson feels comfortable with zero restraints and swinging whenever. I think that's fine and I think having a few guys like that is a good thing. However, I think it's an absolute death sentence to have a bunch of guys going up ready to rip on the first pitch.

What is the upside in that? The downside is you never walk, ever, and you let pitchers get through your lineup with a microscopic pitch count quite often. Why would it make you a better hitter to have that approach? Pitchers are trying to get ahead. So, yes, the first pitch will often be a strike. However, that does not mean it's a good pitch to swing at. Scouting reports are insane these days. Pitcher's target your "cold" zones vs your "hot" zones. Every pitch has a plan. No one is just floating one over the plate 0-0 for the hell of it.

Theoretically, 0-0 why would I be swinging at anything that wasn't a total mistake and exactly where I want it? More pitches you see? The better your timing gets. AND... the chances of seeing a mistake increase. That's how most hitters at the highest levels think.

I don't see what would leave anyone "speechless" about the above. The White Sox had a batting average only .004 points behind the WS winning Nationals last year. But... the Nationals were #1 in OBP. #2? The WS runner up Astros. Clearly, there is something to seeing more pitches that you're not giving credit for. IMO

 

[Mingo]

I enjoy your takes too, man. My favorite conversations are also about baseball theory/philosophy. Which is why I get into these talks. It's also why I get driven kind of crazy by people who seem to ignore the bigger picture.

This will be long, but it will be it for me on this. I promise. lol

I don't know if I completely understand what you mean with the bolded portion. I am not saying to do the same thing every time. Unless you're Wade Boggs, etc. and it's what makes you feel comfortable. It's also clear Anderson feels comfortable with zero restraints and swinging whenever. I think that's fine and I think having a few guys like that is a good thing. However, I think it's an absolute death sentence to have a bunch of guys going up ready to rip on the first pitch.

What is the upside in that? The downside is you never walk, ever, and you let pitchers get through your lineup with a microscopic pitch count quite often. Why would it make you a better hitter to have that approach? Pitchers are trying to get ahead. So, yes, the first pitch will often be a strike. However, that does not mean it's a good pitch to swing at. Scouting reports are insane these days. Pitcher's target your "cold" zones vs your "hot" zones. Every pitch has a plan. No one is just floating one over the plate 0-0 for the hell of it.

Theoretically, 0-0 why would I be swinging at anything that wasn't a total mistake and exactly where I want it? More pitches you see? The better your timing gets. AND... the chances of seeing a mistake increase. That's how most hitters at the highest levels think.

I don't see what would leave anyone "speechless" about the above. The White Sox had a batting average only .004 points behind the WS winning Nationals last year. But... the Nationals were #1 in OBP. #2? The WS runner up Astros. Clearly, there is something to seeing more pitches that you're not giving credit for. IMO

I guess we are talking past each other some how.

If you never swing at the 1st pitch - and that is the book on you - what's the point of the pitcher straining himself to throw you an unhittable ball? You have to be respected on every pitch, or you start every AB down 0-1.

 

[richig07]

Dude...There is, was and always will be one sample size. Whatever the player does for the Sox/Bears/Bulls. What he did before becoming a White Sox got him the contract here, and now he has to live up to it. Fair or not. He's the highest paid player in our history and frankly that's sad.

As for his prior production, do me a favor: Go to your local office supply store, buy a bigass poster board. Go home with it. Pick a franchise, ANY franchise, doesn't have to be Sox...Hell, doesn't even have to be baseball. ANY F*CKING SPORTS FRANCHISE you want. Write down every free agent in that franchise's history on the poster board...Put it up on your wall...Then throw 10 darts on it...and when you hit at least 4 guys that produced worse than they had prior to their FA signing, tell me about how much I should give a sh*t about what Yasmani Grandal did for the Brewers, Dodgers or the Lehigh Valley Ironpigs...

Grandal isn't bad, but he was a bad signing the way this is turning out. I've said this to Mingo before and will reiterate: We're treating a guy that is just a piece like a centerpiece. That never turns out well. That isn't to say Yasmani Grandal is a bad player. I get that he brings...shall we say..."this and that" to the table. But he's not the guy. So beyond all the ball busting, it really does peeve me that we're throwing him into the heart of the order. He should not be there on this team.

I don't really care what Grandal vs. Realmuto is. Whatever it is, it's not there this season from what I've seen, if one is even inclined to believe it ever was. One of the best catchers in the league? Fuggedabout it. Look. Simple story. If it's bottom of the ninth, based loaded 2 outs game tied and you asked me "Grandal or McCann"...It's not even question for me. The fact that that is even possible to consider, much less STRONGLY consider, about our franchise's highest paid player...is frankly depressing. What a weird circumstance.

When a real star anchor type player goes up, you know it. You can actually hear it in the announcers. "Holy sh*t here comes Luis Robert...Good f*cking Lord this pitcher is f*cked royally' (paraphrased) When Grandal comes up to the plate, it literally is like Stone and Bennetti are two marketing interns selling a pet rock to their Advertising 101 professor. "He's got a great eye and is so good for the clubhouse and hoo boy what he does for our pitchers, and he's not afraid to take that walk....Annnnnd that's strike 3."

Move his ass down in the order please and thank you. No more of this heart of the order sh*t.

Love ya richi.

Do you ever actually attack anything with facts, logic, or data?

This post is so bad. There isn't a way to COUNTER it. You did not make a single point. You just babbled with hypothetical scenarios, announcers tone of voice (?) and reiterated how he hasn't done anything yet. We know that. Everyone knows that. Even if he did do well? Who gives a shit? It's 18 games. He has nearly 600 under his contract left to totally bomb.

This is hilarious. So, did you crown Daniel Palka the power hitter of our generation when he came up smacking HR after HR with the White Sox the first few weeks? You must have, according to your logic.

Do you realize how small of a sample size 18 games is? He could literally have two big days and be soaring over his career averages in AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS.

When that is the case. How do you justify this nonsense? This blither?

Dude...There is, was and always will be one sample size. Whatever the player does for the Sox/Bears/Bulls. What he did before becoming a White Sox got him the contract here, and now he has to live up to it. Fair or not. He's the highest paid player in our history and frankly that's sad.

There is ZERO and I mean ZERO use for rationalizing evaluating a player as a whole over 18 games. When he has played 900 games which suggests that he is an elite two way player at his position. That is GALACTIC stupidity. How do you expect people not to laugh at that?

Of course, what matters to us is what he does here. No SHIT. "I'll take a classic Jiddy mouth vomit of cliches and quips that amount to dull nonsense with no substance, please. And super size me. I can see this post is a doozy!"

The problem here is you're biased as shit and using 18 FUCKING GAMES.... SAY IT AGAIN... 18 FUCKING GAMES... out of 600 or so he is scheduled to play for us. To make a determination on said contract.

Not to mention, play that is not in line with what he has done for 900 games. Which directly points to "wait and see a bit... JUST A TAD... MAYBE." This is like if the Bears traded for a top level player and you wrote him off after ONE HALF OF ONE GAME.

Good god. In what world can you not see how STUPID that is?

As for his prior production, do me a favor: Go to your local office supply store, buy a bigass poster board. Go home with it. Pick a franchise, ANY franchise, doesn't have to be Sox...Hell, doesn't even have to be baseball. ANY F*CKING SPORTS FRANCHISE you want. Write down every free agent in that franchise's history on the poster board...Put it up on your wall...Then throw 10 darts on it...and when you hit at least 4 guys that produced worse than they had prior to their FA signing, tell me about how much I should give a sh*t about what Yasmani Grandal did for the Brewers, Dodgers or the Lehigh Valley Ironpigs...


REALLY!? Is this real life?

You seemed to care a WHOLE HELLUVA LOT about his production and his batting average before the season. Holy shit. Cognitive dissonance much? You talked about his production with those teams NON-STOP.

Every post on Grandal from you becomes more of a joke because you're flailing like a fucking school child trying to explain to his teacher why 2 + 2 = 5

Every post gets dumber.... and dumber.... and IMPOSSIBLY dumber.

You have reached ROCK BOTTOM.

You aren't even trying to make points anymore. You're just making Jiddy quips. That's how I always know you're DONE and out of shit to vomit out of your mouth.

I don't really care what Grandal vs. Realmuto is. Whatever it is, it's not there this season from what I've seen

It is 18 games in a no spring training season.

You utter... and complete... dunce.

Do you also think Altuve, Acuna, Yelich, and Bellinger are just finished? I mean, it's not there this season, right? Time to write them off and move on!

Stop copping out and being a total bitch. Answer the GLARING issues with your opinion.

If it's bottom of the ninth, based loaded 2 outs game tied and you asked me "Grandal or McCann"...It's not even question for me. The fact that that is even possible to consider, much less STRONGLY consider, about our franchise's highest paid player...is frankly depressing. What a weird circumstance.

Like, I'm being serious, I'm worried about you.

Do you think players always perform on a straight line? I'm very genuine now. Are you aware that performances spike and dip?

Are you like a dog? Can you only see what's two inches in front of you?

What on earth is your point in all of this? Should the Dodgers bench Bellinger? I'm serious? "What a sad scenario that the Dodgers would currently rather have AJ Pollock hit for them in a clutch situation than the reigning MVP... What a weird circumstance."

I would also rather have Danny Mendick hitting for me right now than Jose Altuve. What is your point? (See the theme?)

How do you actually have these thoughts?

When a real star anchor type player goes up, you know it. You can actually hear it in the announcers. "Holy sh*t here comes Luis Robert...Good f*cking Lord this pitcher is f*cked royally' (paraphrased) When Grandal comes up to the plate, it literally is like Stone and Bennetti are two marketing interns selling a pet rock to their Advertising 101 professor. "He's got a great eye and is so good for the clubhouse and hoo boy what he does for our pitchers, and he's not afraid to take that walk....Annnnnd that's strike 3."

This is all so useless. How announcers react!? WHAT!? LMAO

Grandal isn't a 20 year old phenom, second coming of christ (hyperbole). Like Robert is. This team and the hype is about the young stars and you know it. (Why am I even acknowledging such stupidity)

Also, I'm pretty sure I just heard a conversation about him being an unquestioned top 2 player at his position.

And he isn't paid like a star offensive "anchor". In what world is he? He's the most expensive player on a team filled with 20 year olds and what's left of Edwin Encarnacion/Abreu. LMAO. Do you realize how much Robert, Giolito, Eloy, Anderson, etc. are about to be worth soon? He's paid like nothing more than a very good two way player.

He is paid along the lines of players like Shin Soo Choo. Dallas Kuechel also makes more per year than him. Him and Abreu make nearly the same per year as well. Based on his career as a two way stand-out at the most important defensive position, why shouldn't he be paid like that? You have no factual basis for an argument against it.

Just... Jiddy... You just spoke for like 4 paragraphs and all you did was talk about nothing but how announcers react. You spoke about "Well, bases loaded... I'd rather have McCann". We already knew you do. How does that matter?


How did you type any of this while thinking it was relevant to the topic?

 

[richig07]

Yes?

2020 Chicago White Sox.

And what can I do for you?

We're changing our identity to "Playoff Baseball Team."

Let's see...That'll be $75 million and a year of .240 baseball at the 3 spot.

Fine...Deal.

I thought you didn't care about his past?

If this isn't the funniest post to follow up that other trash with.

Really puts into perspective how your brain works with this stuff.

 

[richig07]

@Jiddy

Oh, and stop saying Grandal is our highest paid player in history. Lol. He's not even close. Raw numbers is not how that works. Every decade contracts sky rocket. You adjust for the massive inflation.

Frank Thomas singed the most expensive contract in baseball before Cecil Fielder past him by shortly after.

A day after he agreed to a four-year contract extension worth a guaranteed $29 million, with five conditional years that could make the entire deal worth about $85 million. Frank Thomas of the Chicago White Sox yesterday received the best average ranking at any position in baseball's ranking statistics

We also signed Albert Belle to be the highest paid player in all of baseball in 1997.

Yearly League Leaders &amp Records for Salary | Baseball-Reference.com

Grandal is the 60th highest paid player in baseball and I believe like 80th or 90th in per year salary (AAV).

Grandal makes less per year than Dallas Kuechel and barely more than 34 year old Abreu. Again, he's paid along the lines of positional players like Shin Soo Choo.

You are being outright dishonest in asserting he's being paid like a high priced star. Dudes are getting 400 million dollars out here. We have 20 year olds on minor league deals and two guys are on deals they got before even seeing the field with us. No shit, he is the most expensive. He's an elite two way catcher, in his prime. On a team full of guys who have barely played yet and a couple other guys who are close to being finished.

Can we end this nonsense now? Would be nice. But I'm sure I'll get a Jiddy quip. "Well, Rich, all I see is that he has the most dollars there. That's all that matters because I'm Jiddy and I have the thickest shit skull you ever seen. Ain't nothing can get in here!"

 

[richig07]

I guess we are talking past each other some how.

If you never swing at the 1st pitch - and that is the book on you - what's the point of the pitcher straining himself to throw you an unhittable ball? You have to be respected on every pitch, or you start every AB down 0-1.

Well, I didn't say never swinging at it was an ideal approach. I said that being extremely selective is. One pitch, in your sweet spot. All it takes is hammering a first pitch here and there to keep them honest. I believe that you should take more often than not. But I mean, I guess if you see a pitch in a spot EVERY time that you hit .400 against. Yeah, that becomes optimal. lol. The thing is you don't.

I think maybe the Wade Boggs example threw us off. I didn't mean that's ideal for the average player. Just that some guys do feel more comfortable when they see a pitch and settle in with their timing. It's kind of like how Tim Anderson or Vlad Guerrero are extreme examples on the aggressive side. Where swinging early just works for them. I was offering Boggs as the contrary point that.

 

[Jiddy]

Good morning boys.

richi richi richi...

I just skimmed that sh*t and God help me I'll never be a point to point guy so forget about it. If it makes you feel better, remember that every time I click submit on a post, I do so with full understanding that you think I'm an idiot and are flabbergasted at some of the things I say. I'm going to keep doing my do anyway. That should help you condense about 1/2 - 2/3 of your content towards me as it will eliminate the need for you to say so in various, shall we say, eloquent manners. Then we can get down to business...Just something to consider as you're throwing down with the keyboard.

As for Grandal? Grandal was sold to us through the media as the largest contract in Sox history. That's not a mistake. That was intentional. Just like you're peddling how baseball teams divulge to the smallest detail how they're going to approach a specific hitter/pitcher pitch by pitch, so too are there a set of stiffs in suits and ties spending their days on press releases and how they want a specific player addressed in the press to the fans. We all know what the Sox were trying to sell when we signed Grandal. That he was some big team-course-altering signing.

So no, I'm not gonna stop. He will be judged by the standard that our team set when we signed him...as would any large signing for any team. You can argue about pedantics about what qualifies as "highest paid player," but it would be wasting your time because I'm not gonna stop as I don't agree with you because the point of what I'm getting at is more than justified.

But I'll make you a deal, an honest to goodness offer: If you make a compelling enough case to the Chicago Tribune about how Yasmani Grandal didn't get the largest contract in White Sox history and get them to print a retraction, I'll never dog him again and forevermore refer to you as the Lord of Baseball Knowledge. As a matter of fact, I'll even buy his jersey and post a picture of myself holding a piece of paper that says "I love richi and I love Yasmani Grandal" on it.

Godspeed young soldier.

XOXOXOXO

 

[Jiddy]

Spotting Giolito a 3 spot early is nice.

Nomar Mazara is really bad.

James McCann is really good.

 

[Jiddy]

That was some pretty good hustle there Jimmy Mac...

 

[Mingo]

Madrigal needs to get back because Mendick is settling in nicely.

 

[Mingo]

The Sox marketing people should have placed some brooms in the cardboard crowd for today's game. This would be a good game for the Na Na song.

 

[Mingo]

Abreu is looking really good and running as well as any year since he became a White Sox. He is justifying his contract.

 

[idseer]

Good morning boys.

richi richi richi...

I just skimmed that sh*t and God help me I'll never be a point to point guy so forget about it. If it makes you feel better, remember that every time I click submit on a post, I do so with full understanding that you think I'm an idiot and are flabbergasted at some of the things I say. I'm going to keep doing my do anyway. That should help you condense about 1/2 - 2/3 of your content towards me as it will eliminate the need for you to say so in various, shall we say, eloquent manners. Then we can get down to business...Just something to consider as you're throwing down with the keyboard.

As for Grandal? Grandal was sold to us through the media as the largest contract in Sox history. That's not a mistake. That was intentional. Just like you're peddling how baseball teams divulge to the smallest detail how they're going to approach a specific hitter/pitcher pitch by pitch, so too are there a set of stiffs in suits and ties spending their days on press releases and how they want a specific player addressed in the press to the fans. We all know what the Sox were trying to sell when we signed Grandal. That he was some big team-course-altering signing.

So no, I'm not gonna stop. He will be judged by the standard that our team set when we signed him...as would any large signing for any team. You can argue about pedantics about what qualifies as "highest paid player," but it would be wasting your time because I'm not gonna stop as I don't agree with you because the point of what I'm getting at is more than justified.

But I'll make you a deal, an honest to goodness offer: If you make a compelling enough case to the Chicago Tribune about how Yasmani Grandal didn't get the largest contract in White Sox history and get them to print a retraction, I'll never dog him again and forevermore refer to you as the Lord of Baseball Knowledge. As a matter of fact, I'll even buy his jersey and post a picture of myself holding a piece of paper that says "I love richi and I love Yasmani Grandal" on it.

Godspeed young soldier.

XOXOXOXO

geezus is richi still going on point by point about yasmani and how great he really is? LMAO!

 

[Jiddy]

Madrigal needs to get back because Mendick is settling in nicely.

Good problem to have.

 

[Mingo]

Madrigal needs to get back because Mendick is settling in nicely.

Mendick is basically Yomer - without the playful personality.

 

[idseer]

wow. when they do, they really do!

 

[Jiddy]

Crooked number. Thanks for the memories Tigers.

 

[idseer]

i thought this pitcher looked really good ..... then the top of the order came up.