Which is it Calipari... Youth is "good" or "bad"

[Steelboy84]

"Youth is good just as long as it pumps up my resume".

 

[Codaxx]

I agree. You can't just not take these kids. They're supposed to be the best in the nation. I dislike coach cal because of all the scandals that follow him from place to place... but that's a different subject. Anyways, nothing will change until the NBA steps up and changes the rules. That said, I don't feel a bit sorry for these kids that leave early and then get flushed out of the system and cry about being broke. They're all adults and can make these decisions on their own. Ross just decided not to come back for his senior year as OSU. I think it's a huge mistake, but maybe he knows otherwise. Who knows, but it's his decision and make or break he has to live with it.

They leave and get 7 figures. I really don't see how anyone has the right to stop them from making a living. It sucks for CBB fans, but imagine if they said you can't make what you are worth for the next 4 yrs. I would be fine if there was 0 college requirement, but if you go to college you need to stay for 2-4 years. Then there is a choice and an agreement. Right now these kids are forced to play one yr. If you make a living being judged by the games you win, you better get some of them.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

I'm just saying he can't use it as an excuse AND say why they did so well...

Bourbon is good, but not good for you. Dorito Locos Tacos are good but not good for you. Snorting a mountain of blow that would make Scarface blush would likely make you feel you euphorically good you're brain would melt but it isn't good for you. Good and bad aren't mutually exclusive. Things can be both.

I suppose you've never heard the phrase "It's a blessing and a curse."

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

Neither recruit under the same "one-and-done" banner - completely different approach, and you know that.

Both have had plenty of One and Done guys. How many point guards has Duke had in the last 5 years? Do the names Josh Selby and Zahveeay Henry ring a bell?

Cal certainly recruits and lands more one and done guys than K and Self, but don't act like K and Self don't do it too. Cal does it more, so if you dislike Cal more then I get that. He's clearly the poster child for the practice. But if you just dislike Cal and are giving K and Self a pass then you're a hypocrite.

On a side note, why does everyone hold Cal in such contempt, but put Wooden up on a pedestal? How come everyone wants to act like Wooden was some great tactician, and ignore the fact that he was the single biggest hoarder of college-aged NBA talent ever. How is what he did any different than what Cal is doing? (other than he got a cake-walk to the Final Four every year, and only had to play against 2 legit teams to win the title) Has everyone forgotten that or does no one care?

 

[gpm1976]

Both have had plenty of One and Done guys. How many point guards has Duke had in the last 5 years? Do the names Josh Selby and Zahveeay Henry ring a bell?

Cal certainly recruits and lands more one and done guys than K and Self, but don't act like K and Self don't do it too. Cal does it more, so if you dislike Cal more then I get that. He's clearly the poster child for the practice. But if you just dislike Cal and are giving K and Self a pass then you're a hypocrite.

On a side note, why does everyone hold Cal in such contempt, but put Wooden up on a pedestal? How come everyone wants to act like Wooden was some great tactician, and ignore the fact that he was the single biggest hoarder of college-aged NBA talent ever. How is what he did any different than what Cal is doing? (other than he got a cake-walk to the Final Four every year, and only had to play against 2 legit teams to win the title) Has everyone forgotten that or does no one care?

It's not about the talent he pulls in. I'm sure he tells these kids what every other coach tells them. He'll put them in the NBA. It's the parts of his past that bother me. The things he did while at UMASS and then Memphis that leave a bad taste in your mouth... and just being able to walk away free of charge and start somewhere else is not right. I know it's still all hearsay, but when every other coach in the game + analysts call his guy the biggest cheater in the game... you know something's wrong.

 

[dcZONAfan]

It's not about the talent he pulls in. I'm sure he tells these kids what every other coach tells them. He'll put them in the NBA. It's the parts of his past that bother me. The things he did while at UMASS and then Memphis that leave a bad taste in your mouth... and just being able to walk away free of charge and start somewhere else is not right. I know it's still all hearsay, but when every other coach in the game + analysts call his guy the biggest cheater in the game... you know something's wrong.

I have a sneaking suspicion that you DON'T KNOW it's all hearsay, and in fact you believe every word of it. Fact of the matter is that if you look at the facts you start to think, hey, this could have happened to ANY other coach in the country...also, it probably has and nobody found out.

 

[gpm1976]

I have a sneaking suspicion that you DON'T KNOW it's all hearsay, and in fact you believe every word of it. Fact of the matter is that if you look at the facts you start to think, hey, this could have happened to ANY other coach in the country...also, it probably has and nobody found out.

I do believe he knew very well what was going on.. you're correct on that assumption. The reason is because he's brought down both programs he was with before. Had it happened just once, I'd say he probably just didn't know. But when these issues keep popping up, it makes you wonder. Another example of this is Pete Carroll from USC. He killed that program and got to jump ship as well before all the sanctions hit. I don't think any paper work surfaced on PC either, but you're telling me he somehow knew it was time to jump ship... right before the sanctions destroyed that program?? These guys know what they're doing and know just when to leave.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

It's not about the talent he pulls in. I'm sure he tells these kids what every other coach tells them. He'll put them in the NBA. It's the parts of his past that bother me. The things he did while at UMASS and then Memphis that leave a bad taste in your mouth... and just being able to walk away free of charge and start somewhere else is not right. I know it's still all hearsay, but when every other coach in the game + analysts call his guy the biggest cheater in the game... you know something's wrong.

I do believe he knew very well what was going on.. you're correct on that assumption. The reason is because he's brought down both programs he was with before. Had it happened just once, I'd say he probably just didn't know. But when these issues keep popping up, it makes you wonder. Another example of this is Pete Carroll from USC. He killed that program and got to jump ship as well before all the sanctions hit. I don't think any paper work surfaced on PC either, but you're telling me he somehow knew it was time to jump ship... right before the sanctions destroyed that program?? These guys know what they're doing and know just when to leave.

If you're going to make assumptions based on certain facts, that's fine but you should at least get your facts straight.

Your statement that "every other coach in the game + analysts call this guy the biggest cheat in the game" is utter horseshit. I'm sure you believe its true, but it is simply false. You'll be hard pressed to find more than a couple of these guys on the record saying Calipari is the biggest cheat. The closest you'll get is an anonymous survey that See BS did, that was conflicted at most where 36% of surveyed coaches said Cal was the biggest cheater (not a majority, and nowhere close to "all" as you claim) but the same survey also showed Calipari topping the list of Coaches that were able to operate without breaking the rules.

As far as what happened at UMass, they should build him a fucking statue at that School. He left that program in better shape than he found it. Calipari found out what happened with Camby and he reported it to the school and subsequently the NCAA. The school wasn't punished at all. They weren't put on probation. They weren't penalized any scholarships. Had the NCAA found out before they likely would have dropped the hammer on UMass. But they didn't because of Calipari's actions.

Memphis was a different situation but similar outcome. The NCAA determined that outside of a bookkeeping oversight (not billing Derrick Rose's brother for 2 of the 5 trips where he accompanied the team on the charter) Calipari, nor anyone else at Memphis did anything wrong. That's why the program wasn't put on probation, scholarships reduced, no show cause penalties or anything else. They got off scott free. They dropped the hammer on the women's golf team, but I guess you think that was Calipari's fault too, right?

The USC situation is completely different. The NCAA actually did drop the hammer on the program. Probation, post season bans, scholarship reductions, show cause penalties, the works.

 

[RGrabber]

Will Kentucky get draft choice and cash in their yearly trade with the NBA/

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

And I love that BUD loves to give all my posts the thumbs down, but never has the sack to respond.

You giving me the thumbs down because you think I'm wrong or because you know I'm right?

 

[gpm1976]

If you're going to make assumptions based on certain facts, that's fine but you should at least get your facts straight.

Your statement that "every other coach in the game + analysts call this guy the biggest cheat in the game" is utter horseshit. I'm sure you believe its true, but it is simply false. You'll be hard pressed to find more than a couple of these guys on the record saying Calipari is the biggest cheat. The closest you'll get is an anonymous survey that See BS did, that was conflicted at most where 36% of surveyed coaches said Cal was the biggest cheater (not a majority, and nowhere close to "all" as you claim) but the same survey also showed Calipari topping the list of Coaches that were able to operate without breaking the rules.

As far as what happened at UMass, they should build him a fucking statue at that School. He left that program in better shape than he found it. Calipari found out what happened with Camby and he reported it to the school and subsequently the NCAA. The school wasn't punished at all. They weren't put on probation. They weren't penalized any scholarships. Had the NCAA found out before they likely would have dropped the hammer on UMass. But they didn't because of Calipari's actions.

Memphis was a different situation but similar outcome. The NCAA determined that outside of a bookkeeping oversight (not billing Derrick Rose's brother for 2 of the 5 trips where he accompanied the team on the charter) Calipari, nor anyone else at Memphis did anything wrong. That's why the program wasn't put on probation, scholarships reduced, no show cause penalties or anything else. They got off scott free. They dropped the hammer on the women's golf team, but I guess you think that was Calipari's fault too, right?

The USC situation is completely different. The NCAA actually did drop the hammer on the program. Probation, post season bans, scholarship reductions, show cause penalties, the works.

Look man, it's fine if you like this guy. But if it smells like bullshit it probably is. He leaves Umass after everyone finds out Camby accepts thousands of dollars and all the hookers a college kid could want + Lou Row magically becoming eligible when no other teams would touch him. Now on to Memphis where someone takes the SAT for Derrick Rose and then they pay traveling expenses for his brother. Some sort of deal to get Derrick to sign on??? Is this how he lands all his recruits??? Now memphis is facing possible sanctions so he bolts for Kentucky. What a great guy... and if leaving Memphis to face possible sanctions w/out him is not enough, he gives the university one more surprise. He takes the top two recruits, Wall and Cousins, with him as he leaves. Wins for all his best seasons were vacated at both Memphis and Umass. I don't think he even had a legit final four to his name until Kentucky got there a couple of years ago... and you can't seriously tell me he had NO idea any of this was going on. Bottom line.. Head coaches know what going on!

 

[gpm1976]

Will Kentucky get draft choice and cash in their yearly trade with the NBA/

...

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

Look man, it's fine if you like this guy. But if it smells like bullshit it probably is. He leaves Umass after everyone finds out Camby accepts thousands of dollars and all the hookers a college kid could want + Lou Row magically becoming eligible when no other teams would touch him. Now on to Memphis where someone takes the SAT for Derrick Rose and then they pay traveling expenses for his brother. Some sort of deal to get Derrick to sign on??? Is this how he lands all his recruits??? Now memphis is facing possible sanctions so he bolts for Kentucky. What a great guy... and if leaving Memphis to face possible sanctions w/out him is not enough, he gives the university one more surprise. He takes the top two recruits, Wall and Cousins, with him as he leaves. Wins for all his best seasons were vacated at both Memphis and Umass. I don't think he even had a legit final four to his name until Kentucky got there a couple of years ago... and you can't seriously tell me he had NO idea any of this was going on. Bottom line.. Head coaches know what going on!

Why did he leave UMass? Because I'm pretty sure it more to do with the Nets offering him a huge pile of money to leave for a better job. That's why a lot of people leave their jobs. Maybe you would have stuck around to work for less simply because some asshole agent gave one of your players jewelry and hookers, but I'm at least honest enough to say I would have gone too. And to be very clear, Calipari left that program in better shape than when he arrived. Not worse.

As far as the Derrick Rose thing, I can't say that someone else didn't take that SAT for him any more than you can claim someone did because neither of us know who took that test. Just like neither of us know if Calipari knew about what (if anything) was going on. Rose's brother traveling with the team isn't an NCAA violation. He simply has to pay for it. The issue was that he was billed for (and paid) 3 of the 5 trips where he traveled with the team. (that's a majority in case your math skills are on par with your deductive reasoning) But twice, he wasn't billed, which sounds a lot more like a clerical error than a willful violation to me. (The NCAA thought so too, which you would know if you bothered to read the report) And again, Calipari left that program in better shape than when he arrived. And why did hea leave? Did he start calling up people looking for other jobs? No. Kentucky called and offered to make him one of the highest paid coaches in college athletics. Are you turning that down just because some pencil pusher forgot the bill Derick Rose's brother for air travel?

If you don't like the guy because Cousins followed him to UK, I get that. It's reasonable. (Wall hadn't committed to anyone yet) but at least get your facts straight regarding everything else. You spout your misinformed opinion out as if it is fact, and it most certainly isn't.

You don't have to like the guy. I don't particularly care for him either. But cut out the bullshit and get your facts straight.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

How long did O'Brien stick around after he got Ohio State's Final Four vacated?

 

[gpm1976]

Why did he leave UMass? Because I'm pretty sure it more to do with the Nets offering him a huge pile of money to leave for a better job. That's why a lot of people leave their jobs. Maybe you would have stuck around to work for less simply because some asshole agent gave one of your players jewelry and hookers, but I'm at least honest enough to say I would have gone too. And to be very clear, Calipari left that program in better shape than when he arrived. Not worse.

As far as the Derrick Rose thing, I can't say that someone else didn't take that SAT for him any more than you can claim someone did because neither of us know who took that test. Just like neither of us know if Calipari knew about what (if anything) was going on. Rose's brother traveling with the team isn't an NCAA violation. He simply has to pay for it. The issue was that he was billed for (and paid) 3 of the 5 trips where he traveled with the team. (that's a majority in case your math skills are on par with your deductive reasoning) But twice, he wasn't billed, which sounds a lot more like a clerical error than a willful violation to me. (The NCAA thought so too, which you would know if you bothered to read the report) And again, Calipari left that program in better shape than when he arrived. And why did hea leave? Did he start calling up people looking for other jobs? No. Kentucky called and offered to make him one of the highest paid coaches in college athletics. Are you turning that down just because some pencil pusher forgot the bill Derick Rose's brother for air travel?

If you don't like the guy because Cousins followed him to UK, I get that. It's reasonable. (Wall hadn't committed to anyone yet) but at least get your facts straight regarding everything else. You spout your misinformed opinion out as if it is fact, and it most certainly isn't.

You don't have to like the guy. I don't particularly care for him either. But cut out the bullshit and get your facts straight.

What bullshit facts? There may be one or two other coaches that think he's honest, but from what I read most don't.

As for Derrick Rose, he is reason the wins were vacated. We absolutely know he cheated. His score was tossed out by the educational testing service. Prior to having someone take the SAT for him, he failed the ACT 3 times!!!! That's right, 3 times!! The average person couldn't fail the ACT once if they tried. So there's NO way he could have passed the SAT. Oh, and by the way he lived in Chicago and took the SAT in Detroit. Why does a high school kid who had just committed to Memphis travel all the way to Detroit to do this?? Pretty sure "Someone" who wanted him to play for Memphis had something to do with this. Again... I'm only going off of the facts at hand and putting 2 and 2 together. There's only one way the top recruits in the country continue to swarm to Kentucky... and I think you can see where I'm going with this. By the way, I'm sure the coaches for any D1 school have formulated the same opinion I have over the years.

Nothing personal against you, but I think Cal is as dishonest as they come and I have zero respect for the guy.

 

[gpm1976]

How long did O'Brien stick around after he got Ohio State's Final Four vacated?

LOL!!! Come on man, this is pathetic. O'Brien was fired and that kid never even played for OSU.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

What bullshit facts? There may be one or two other coaches that think he's honest, but from what I read most don't.

Read what? Where? I can say from what I've read your father smelt of elderberries, but that doesn't make it true. What coaches? Who said it? If everyone (as you've claimed) has said it, it shouldn't be that hard for you to find evidence.

As for Derrick Rose, he is reason the wins were vacated. We absolutely know he cheated.

No we don't.

His score was tossed out by the educational testing service.

Because he failed to respond to a letter that was sent to the wrong address.

Prior to allegedly having someone take the SAT for him, he failed the ACT 3 times!!!!

I think it's likely that Rose had someone else take his SAT, but I certainly don't know that. If you're claiming you do, you're a fucking lair. Hence you're full of shit.

That's right, 3 times!! The average person couldn't fail the ACT once if they tried. So there's NO way he could have passed the SAT. Oh, and by the way he lived in Chicago and took the SAT in Detroit. Why does a high school kid who had just committed to Memphis travel all the way to Detroit to do this?? Pretty sure "Someone" who wanted him to play for Memphis had something to do with this. Again... I'm only going off of the facts at hand and putting 2 and 2 together.

No, you're confusing drawing a conclusion based on facts, as a fact. You can conclude whatever you want, but that doesn't mean you know it. And even if Derrick Rose did cheat, that still doesn't mean Calipari was complicit or even knew about it. It's not like Calipari was the only one with something to gain by Rose becoming eligible. Rose, himself, had a bigger stake in becoming eligible than anyone else.

There's only one way the top recruits in the country continue to swarm to Kentucky... and I think you can see where I'm going with this. By the way, I'm sure the coaches for any D1 school have formulated the same opinion I have over the years.

Yeah, because Kentucky never got good recruits before Calipari. Oh wait, even Tubby Smith (the guy infamous at Kentucky for not being able to recruit) pulled in a #1 ranked recruiting class before he left. Nice try at trying to jump to an absurd conclusion.

But I'm glad you can speak for all of Division 1 coaching. Glad to know we have someone here a SH with his finger on the pulse of D1 coaching.

Nothing personal against you, but I think Cal is as dishonest as they come and I have zero respect for the guy.

And nothing against you. You can hate the guy all you want. There's a lot to hate about the man. But it if you want to avoid looking like an asshat, you might want to ground that hate in reality, instead of some fantasy that you've created. (and your statements about what coaches think is very much a fantasy)

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

LOL!!! Come on man, this is pathetic. O'Brien was fired and that kid never even played for OSU.

And why do you suppose it is that O'Brien was fired and call wasn't? (twice)

Any guesses as to why that might be or you just going to "no comment" that?

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

By the way, is there some "honor among coaches" that everyone follows? Is that why none of the coaches that know about Calipari have turned him in? They just don't want to be a snitch? Is that it?

If so, why hasn't Thad Matta been ostracized for convincing Aaron Craft to rat out Bruce Pearl?

 

[jonvi]

...

I know you used it as joke, but it seems that is the intrument being used by those accusing Coach Calipari of cheating.

The man's the most scrutinized coach I've seen in my life. If there was a smoking gun or if UK was cheating, no way could it be hidden at this point.