Where do the Cavs go from here?

[DJ]

Well this was what you quoted him saying "i would def take Ingram over Love for the next 5 years- but just this year i would much rather have Love"

He's back tracking.. He never said this in the original comment.

"What i was saying i I had to pick one guy to play with LeBron for THIS year- Ingram or Love- its easily without a doubt 100% Kevin Love. Do you not agree with that? cmon now.

That id rather have ingram long term no doubt, but if you are talking just this season and could pick one or the other its Love and its not particularly close."

 

[trojanfan12]

Ultimately, the question for the Lakers is what do they WANT to do?

It's all well and good that Luke Walton wants to run a Warriors style offense. But that doesn't mean it is the best use of Lebron's skill sets. Lebron thrives with the ball in his hands and being the center of the offense perhaps he could thrive in a spread the ball system but we haven't really seen him in it.

We haven't seen him in it because he's never gone to a team that ran one and he's had to carry a huge part of the load everywhere he's been.

We've been hearing for years that he wants to lessen his load, but every year it's gotten bigger.

A Warriors style offense allows him to not have to carry so much of the load, still be a main focal point of the offense (I mean, I'm pretty sure they'll pass him the ball lol) and he should still have the freedom to take over the game when necessary.

OF COURSE Lebron will be really good in any system so I don't want some Laker homer suggesting that I was saying Lebron would suck in the Walton system. It's a question of getting the most out of him.

Yeah, I don't think you're saying he'd suck at all. He's 33 years old. I think that getting the most out of him should mean making sure he can conserve energy by playing within the system most of the time and taking over when necessary.

 

[DJ]

@DJ

here is a good bet for you...

If Ingram shoots 38.0% or more from 3 this year you win

if Ingram shoots 37.9% or worse from 3 this year, I win.

is that a bet you would do?

No.

His % will decline because he'll be shooting more of them would be my guess. If I had to guess, I'd say he makes 36-37%.

When he finished just under 40%, I was honestly surprised.

 

[Heatles84]

you think its irrelevant if he say, loses first round of the playoffs this year?

how long can you wait when you will be 34 in December?

Preserve your legs at this point.

Why play until June at 34 and lose in June again?

I think him losing potentially in the 1st round is irrelevant given that Lebron's proven that he alone can carry a team to the Finals and has done it multiple times (2018 and 2015, specifically). Lebron's already in just about everyone's top 5 NBA players of all-time.

Who cares if he goes to 8 straight Finals or 9 straight?

 

[trojanfan12]

Kuzma is really the guy that i think, at least offensively, could be a really good fit with LeBron.

If they can stick Kuzma in that corner and get him to shoot 37% or better from 3- he can be a weapon and draw a lot of attention and space the floor.

Only issue is that Kuzma is a little undersized and not good defensively. If Kuzma is your regular starting PF playing 30 minutes a game you need a big man that is more defensive oriented playing next to him or shit can get out of hand.

Agree.

I don't think Kuzma is quite as bad defensively as you claim, but he sure as hell isn't going to be all defensive team any time soon either. He's a solid team defender, but he's not locking anyone down 1 v 1. He has the athleticism to be a good defender, he just needs to learn how to play NBA defense. Fortunately, he's young and can learn still.

 

[WiggyRuss]

No.

His % will decline because he'll be shooting more of them would be my guess. If I had to guess, I'd say he makes 36-37%.

When he finished just under 40%, I was honestly surprised.

ill give you 37%......lower a whole point

36.9 or lower i win....37.0 or igher you win?

and for the record- what you just said is exactly what my point was about making 0.7 three's a game.

 

[flyerhawk]

We haven't seen him in it because he's never gone to a team that ran one and he's had to carry a huge part of the load everywhere he's been.

We've been hearing for years that he wants to lessen his load, but every year it's gotten bigger.

A Warriors style offense allows him to not have to carry so much of the load, still be a main focal point of the offense (I mean, I'm pretty sure they'll pass him the ball lol) and he should still have the freedom to take over the game when necessary.

It will be interesting to see certainly. But, IMO, the Warriors system is built to NOT have a go to player. Constant ball movement until a player gets an open look or lane. That doesn't really work if everyone is still just waiting for the ball to get to Lebron.

To be clear, that doesn't mean it won't work. But I am curious to see how it will work given the composition of the team.

Yeah, I don't think you're saying he'd suck at all. He's 33 years old. I think that getting the most out of him should mean making sure he can conserve energy by playing within the system most of the time and taking over when necessary.

You aren't a homer so you wouldn't think that. You're more homer-curious than homer-sexual. I would say the same thing about me, FTR.

TLF and Shaqdaddy are full on homer-sexuals. DJ shows clear homer-sexual tendencies but he tries to repress them.

 

[DJ]

ill give you 37%......lower a whole point

36.9 or lower i win....37.0 or igher you win?

and for the record- what you just said is exactly what my point was about making 0.7 three's a game.

Regardless, he can still shoot.

 

[tlance]

We had been agreeing fairly well on stuff the last day or so which is why this post surprises me

Kevin Love is a 5 time all star in his prime that shot a ton of 3's at over a 40% clip. Hes a great passer. He is still a top rebounder in the game with loads of playoff experience.

Ingram is a 20 year old kid that is going to have to seriously adjust his game and adjust to a target being on the lakers back every night instead of playing in a no-pressure environment.

Ingram long term EASILY. Love this year, easily.

Love might be the one thing we have disagreed on most.

I am not disparaging him. He is a very good offensive player. I do think you tend to overrate the value of his rebounding though. He is definitely a minus on the defensive end even when the rebounds are factored in. He can and will post great numbers on an bad team. But, I just don't think those numbers do much to elevate the team.

The year Minny won 40, they had Martin and Pekovic both playing like high quality NBA starters along with other quality role players and they still weren't a playoff team. While Love is more experienced, I don't think he is a better player today than he was back then.

Ingram will not approach Love's statistical contribution, but I think his all around skill set fits very well with any star as a quality compliment. Love's skill set is a little harder to Integrate and requires the right fit because of his defensive limitations.

 

[trojanfan12]

sometimes i seriously wonder if he is sniffing bath salts. i dont think that couldve been any clearer.

ITs not a knock on Ingram either- Love is a 5 time all star in his prime with loads of playoff and championship experience. Ingram is a 20 year old kid that has done nothing in his career. Anyone would take Love for JUSt this year- conversely- i think anyone would take Ingram for the next 5 years. Its just common sense.

I hate when folks think saying a guy is better than another guy right now, somehow means he's going to be better forever or that it's somehow a diss on the other guy.

 

[flyerhawk]

Who cares if he goes to 8 straight Finals or 9 straight?

Clearly Lebron doesn't care.

 

[DJ]

Preserve your legs at this point.

Why play until June at 34 and lose in June again?

I think him losing potentially in the 1st round is irrelevant given that Lebron's proven that he alone can carry a team to the Finals and has done it multiple times (2018 and 2015, specifically). Lebron's already in just about everyone's top 5 NBA players of all-time.

Who cares if he goes to 8 straight Finals or 9 straight?

Exactly. Especially, if they go to a few more after next season if they secure a 2nd legit star.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I fully expect them to screw around and be bad.....but not bad enough. Theyll end up with like the 6th or 7th pick instead of top 3. NBA is one of those leagues you gotta be really really bad to get good in (unfortunately), especially if youre in a place not alluring to big time FAs

the Kings have no incentive to be bad becuase there pick goes to Boston. Same with Memphis.

The Lakers wont be terrible with LeBron obviously. The Suns will be trying to win.

When I look at the teams that are trying to lose and get a high pick there are just not that many though.

In the West I would say there are ZERO teams tanking outright at the start of the season.

In the East- I would say just about ZERO as well besides maybe the Hawks.


which team are actually planning to be really bad next year in the NBA? id say the Hawks are one, maybe the Knicks if Porzingis does not come back, but thats about it right?

am i missing any team? maybe charlotte if they trade kemba? Orlando is not going to try and be bad again.

 

[WiggyRuss]

He's back tracking.. He never said this in the original comment.

"What i was saying i I had to pick one guy to play with LeBron for THIS year- Ingram or Love- its easily without a doubt 100% Kevin Love. Do you not agree with that? cmon now.

That id rather have ingram long term no doubt, but if you are talking just this season and could pick one or the other its Love and its not particularly close."

thats quoting my original comment. lol

DJ...layoff the bath salts. lol.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I hate when folks think saying a guy is better than another guy right now, somehow means he's going to be better forever or that it's somehow a diss on the other guy.

I mean Kevin Love is 29 and in his prime- a 5 time all star- a guy that has made all NBA teams- a guy that has been to 4 straight finals and won a ship- a guy that went for 18 and 9 last year and shot a ton of threes and made 40 percent of them

if the Lakers offered Ingram for Love to the Cavs id do it in a second because of the long term. But if i HAD to win as many games as possible right now i dont know how its close.

 

[Edonidd]

Kobe made a great point about this. He said that just seeing how Lebron goes about his business will be huge for these guys. They get to see how he approaches the game, takes care of his body, handles his nutrition, etc., etc. I hope these guys are smart enough to follow him around like puppies and ask him a lot of questions.



Mostly agree. Hopefully, Lebron is at a point in his career where he hopefully understands that being part of a system and staying with it can actually be good for him both during games and in prolonging his career.

One thing I've heard several folks say is that Lebron wants to be coached, but has never really had a strong coach who will insist that he stay in the system. Hopefully Luke can be that guy.

I think Luke needs to take the same approach with Lebron that Phil took with Kobe. Insist that he play within the system, but allowing him the freedom to take over the game when necessary.

Sometimes Kobe would try to take over the game when it wasn't necessary, so Phil would have to reign him in. lol

I don't want to single you out here, a lot of people seem to be saying it. But do people really think Luke Walton is going to not only stay the coach in name, but also be Lebrons coach?

Walton and Lebron were drafted into the league in the same year. I mean yes, he played some years in college, and learned more from his dad than James did, but he's not some Phil Jackson. Plus he's white, which I'm not sure how much effect it has, but it does have an effect.

The joke I keep hearing is that the biggest winner in Lebron leaving Cleveland is Tyronn Lue, he was finally promoted to head coach.

Even with Pat Riley, Lebron has always done what he wanted. That's not going to lessen as he gets older and more experienced.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Clearly Lebron doesn't care.

i am just saying that really surprises me.

 

[DJ]

thats quoting my original comment. lol

DJ...layoff the bath salts. lol.

195:

"i would def take Ingram over Love for the next 5 years- but just this year i would much rather have Love and i dont think its particularly close. Dude went for like 18 and 9 and was an all star that shot over 40% from 3 with a huge volume- one of the best big man passers and shooters in the league- and one of the leagues best rebounders."

205:

"What i was saying if I had to pick one guy to play with LeBron for THIS year- Ingram or Love- its easily without a doubt 100% Kevin Love. Do you not agree with that? cmon now.

That id rather have ingram long term no doubt, but if you are talking just this season and could pick one or the other its Love and its not particularly close."

 

[WiggyRuss]

I don't want to single you out here, a lot of people seem to be saying it. But do people really think Luke Walton is going to not only stay the coach in name, but also be Lebrons coach?

Walton and Lebron were drafted into the league in the same year. I mean yes, he played some years in college, and learned more from his dad than James did, but he's not some Phil Jackson. Plus he's white, which I'm not sure how much effect it has, but it does have an effect.

The joke I keep hearing is that the biggest winner in Lebron leaving Cleveland is Tyronn Lue, he was finally promoted to head coach.

Even with Pat Riley, Lebron has always done what he wanted. That's not going to lessen as he gets older and more experienced.

its a "problem" wherever he has been.

LeBron is not so big on listening to his coach. lol.

He does what he wants when he wants pretty much.

 

[flyerhawk]

Ingram will not approach Love's statistical contribution, but I think his all around skill set fits very well with any star as a quality compliment. Love's skill set is a little harder to Integrate and requires the right fit because of his defensive limitations.

Love is such a tough player to rate because his game doesn't really fit a specific role. He gets a lot of rebounds but he's not a physical player. He is a great 3 point shooter but merely average in the paint. His defense is often suspect.

 

[WiggyRuss]

195:

"i would def take Ingram over Love for the next 5 years- but just this year i would much rather have Love and i dont think its particularly close. Dude went for like 18 and 9 and was an all star that shot over 40% from 3 with a huge volume- one of the best big man passers and shooters in the league- and one of the leagues best rebounders."

205:

"What i was saying if I had to pick one guy to play with LeBron for THIS year- Ingram or Love- its easily without a doubt 100% Kevin Love. Do you not agree with that? cmon now.

That id rather have ingram long term no doubt, but if you are talking just this season and could pick one or the other its Love and its not particularly close."