Trading DOWN

[DunceKaep]

Thought this was apropos.

This is great stuff.

Now, I remember sitting in the parking lot of Haggen, waiting for that 3rd round pick.
Announced, RW, and Millen went off. Said it was a totally wasted pick, and much more.

I have heard audio of Millen later saying, he would eat the MICROPHONE if RW EVER did anything.
That audio is available,

What I want is that original, seconds after the pick, reaction from Millen.
It was brutal, and I would love to hear it again.
If anyone has found it, please feel free to share it please.

 

[DunceKaep]

These MOCK drafts and taking players rated as round 5, taken in the 2nd or 3rd.

I would LOVE to see, in a perfect world, ALL these mockers have zero input from other mockers.
How similar are these mocks, VERY similar.
You can guarantee that a guy like Kiper, sees other mockers having player A ranked 30 spots higher, and Kiper immediately moves that guy up. Based soley on other mockers. That is why the end results are so similar.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Shoot guys it's all about results. Seahawks are at a crossroads, need the draft picks and the young guys to produce. Soon Thomas, Sherman, Kam, Bennett and Avril will be up for a new contract and resigning them may not happen, might not be wise to even if the Seahawks could, they are getting up there in age where the bang for the buck isn't there anymore. So......need the young guys to step forward.
I don't think I know more the the front office, but I do have a opinion. Always felt trying for tons of picks was for rebuilding teams and for playoff teams grabbing players that are plug and play was more important, to fill the few holes in your starting lineup.
Heard many here mention the Pats and that's how they do it. IMO the Pats haven't been stellar with their drafts. Mostly they have excelled by vulturing players from other teams that they can make the most of with their system. The draft while not terrible, certainly hasn't been the reason they have won.

Guess we are going to find out soon how this works out.

 

[chf]

Shoot guys it's all about results. Seahawks are at a crossroads, need the draft picks and the young guys to produce. Soon Thomas, Sherman, Kam, Bennett and Avril will be up for a new contract and resigning them may not happen, might not be wise to even if the Seahawks could, they are getting up there in age where the bang for the buck isn't there anymore. So......need the young guys to step forward.
I don't think I know more the the front office, but I do have a opinion. Always felt trying for tons of picks was for rebuilding teams and for playoff teams grabbing players that are plug and play was more important, to fill the few holes in your starting lineup.
Heard many here mention the Pats and that's how they do it. IMO the Pats haven't been stellar with their drafts. Mostly they have excelled by vulturing players from other teams that they can make the most of with their system. The draft while not terrible, certainly hasn't been the reason they have won.

Guess we are going to find out soon how this works out.

Not sure if it's that simple. They(Pats) seem to develop lots on D, and then use them as chips to trade away.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Not sure if it's that simple. They(Pats) seem to develop lots on D, and then use them as chips to trade away.

I know they traded Collins for peanuts to the Browns and they got a first from the Raiders for Seymour ( ancient history)but any other examples?

 

[chf]

I know they traded Collins for peanuts to the Browns and they got a first from the Raiders for Seymour ( ancient history)but any other examples?

I assume they're going to eventually move Butler for some pieces. But you're right, they haven't had too many trades...

Kinda' too busy to look it up right now, but I'd have a look at their last ten years of drafting, I'm thinking it's gotta' be pretty decent for Belichek to get that rep.

 

[JMR]

I assume they're going to eventually move Butler for some pieces. But you're right, they haven't had too many trades...

Kinda' too busy to look it up right now, but I'd have a look at their last ten years of drafting, I'm thinking it's gotta' be pretty decent for Belichek to get that rep.

NE has traded both Chandler Jones and Jamie Collins (their 2 best defenders I think) over the last couple years, right? The one they shipped to Cleveland was because of some sort of attitude issue -- complaining about scheme or snaps or something like that.

 

[Uhsplit]

it was a statement about throwing a bunch of shit into a fan and hoping some of it stick, I said like throwing darts. when you looked at the players available when the Hawks picked it felt like they were just throwing darts and had no plan going in. Now we know that isn't the case but that still doesn't explain why they were leaving 1st and 2nd round graded players at need positions on the board and drafting 4th or 5th and some times 6th round graded players in the 3rd.

Weak draft for Oline i know this and said as much, matter of fact i said that maybe MAYBE 2 Olineman in this draft class would be drafted in the first round in other drafts and i was laughed at by that comment well slap my silly i was right. How many Olineman were drafted in the first round? This team needed a play maker at OLB not a fill in but a starter and play maker, they had their chance to get such a player TWICE and thumbed their noses at it.

They needed to find a CB that had a chance to beat out Shead who might not be ready week one so they needed someone that could start in a pinch they ignored that. Shead is not a great corner and i think we can all agree on that. Finding someone to replace him would have been nice and would have instantly made the secondary better. The CB they picked is more of the same in my eyes and might have a chance to beat out Shead but he is more like a clone of Shead. King would have been a upgrade and in my eyes has a higher ceiling than Shead who i feel we have seen the best we are going to see from him. Sherman being on the trading block also means they very well could be looking for TWO CB that can start and play in the NFL SOON ( maybe not this year but next year). They didn't seem to care.

Ok the Oline. Weak class we all know this some better than others so you might have to dig. They grabbed a guy who's best position is Center. Why? Our best Olineman on the team right now ( Sorry Ifedi ) plays CENTER! Ok Pocic played all over the line, Guard and even a little tackle but lets not kid ourselves he was BAD as a tackle not just bad but Horrible. Ok so lets look at what they picked up in FA a guard another guard oh a guard. WTF! Lamp was there for them to pick up and i bet he becomes the best Olineman in this draft because again he in my eyes again has the highest ceiling. They could have plugged him in at RG and slid Ifedi out to tackle and if Ifedi fails at tackle they could have slid Lamp out there. I can not see Pocic at tackle ...can you REALLY see that?

Yes there was some picks i liked, The Hawks First pick wasn't a bad one just not as much of a need in my eyes because we had DT's injured last year that will be back or 100% this season that are young. Reed was dinged up last season ( high ankle sprain or was that Jefferson? ) and he will improve Quinton Jefferson will improve and is a young guy. They talk about getting pressure from inside and yet draft a 1.5 sack guy..... Both WR i totally understand because there is a need there and they addressed it with a couple guys that could blossom. both are bigger WR 220+ 6foot + and both are very raw but could develop into #3 or 4 guys. Darboh in college was this guy that just improved every year. They thought someone else was going to over take him but he just took on that challenge and won, love that style of personality. Guy has desire and want to in him ala Baldwin.

Not Drafting a OLB in my eyes was a mistake, they could have instantly made the defense better just with that move alone. This hurts more knowing there was players for the taking that would have been starters at OLB ( ok should never say would but ill say should ).

Now i do not know the team inside and out like Carrol and JS do, i only know what i see in games and in film just like the rest of you. But i think we all know where this team is weak/thin and i just feel like they could have did so much more to help bolster those "THIN" area's than they did. And lets not fool our selves, these two have reached a lot in the 3rd through 5th rounds and have hit on some but missed on most.

At least they didn't draft a DT to play Oline this season. After Day 2 i said i give them a D-, i now say it's a D. Also sucks to see the Hawks in many places as the biggest losers of the draft after what the Bears pulled you would think they would be the lock for that honor. This just goes to show that being able to see through Seahawk colored glasses is not a strong point on this board.

the BS emoji was because of this comment by you "We've gotta' ship these two outta' town pronto. Maybe Mike Shanahan is available." as a total over reaction post to my opinion. I still have faith in Pete and JS but having faith and being blind are two VERY different things. I will not BLINDLY follow and agree i will use my own judgement like we all should do but many of you seem to think this FO can do no wrong. Supporting someone doesn't mean you have to blindly follow and agree with them 100% of the time.

Buddy, there are so many holes in this post I didn't know where to start.

 

[JMR]

Has been some talk about Kearse's roster spot in jeopardy after this draft, so I thought I would toss this out there: according to overthecap, a post-June 1 cut would save $2.2M of cap space.

 

[MrS]

If true, kearse HAS to be gone. One of the few dumb contracts they have handed out

 

[HaroldSeattle]

NE has traded both Chandler Jones and Jamie Collins (their 2 best defenders I think) over the last couple years, right? The one they shipped to Cleveland was because of some sort of attitude issue -- complaining about scheme or snaps or something like that.

Well I mentioned Collins ( second round pick by the way), forgot about Jones but he was a first round pick. Anybody recall a low round pick that excelled for the Pats? Don't mention Brady, we all know about him.

 

[MrS]

Butler was a low rounder wasnt he? Without looking i want to say 5th or 6th

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Butler was a low rounder wasnt he? Without looking i want to say 5th or 6th

Undrafted fee agent

 

[blstoker]

Well I mentioned Collins ( second round pick by the way), forgot about Jones but he was a first round pick. Anybody recall a low round pick that excelled for the Pats? Don't mention Brady, we all know about him.

Edelman

 

[JMR]

Rookie jersey numbers assigned:

DT Malik McDowell: 94

G/T Ethan Pocic: 79

CB Shaquill Griffin: 26

SS Delano Hill: 44

DT Nazair Jones: 93

WR Amara Darboh: 84

FS Tedric Thompson: 33

CB Mike Tyson: 40

T Justin Senior: 65

WR David Moore: 83

RB Chris Carson: 32

 

[jakedog56]

Has been some talk about Kearse's roster spot in jeopardy after this draft, so I thought I would toss this out there: according to overthecap, a post-June 1 cut would save $2.2M of cap space.

Unfortunately you heard incorrect information.

Kearse's base salary is $2.2 million but his signing bonus is over $1.8 million so cutting him now would save something in the line of $366,000 (which is less than a minimum salary slot). A post June 1st cut would save around $2 million this year but it would push back both this year's and next year's bonus money (plus adfitional?) into next year and it would us almost $5 million against next year's cap.

Next year his base jumps to $5 million so cutting him then would save us almost $3.2 million.

 

[JMR]

Unfortunately you heard incorrect information.

Kearse's base salary is $2.2 million but his signing bonus is over $1.8 million so cutting him now would save something in the line of $366,000 (which is less than a minimum salary slot). A post June 1st cut would save around $2 million this year but it would push back both this year's and next year's bonus money (plus adfitional?) into next year and it would us almost $5 million against next year's cap.

Next year his base jumps to $5 million so cutting him then would save us almost $3.2 million.

Hmmm....that doesn't exactly match what I understand from overthecap. Agreed on current year cap implications -- $366k savings for pre-1 June and $2.2M after. His dead cap money is $3.6M. Doing the post-1 June move splits that in half between this year and next. That means we would take $1.8M this year (subtracted from the $4M cap number for 2017 gets you the $2.2M savings) and $1.8M pushed to 2018.

 

[Screamin12th]

Hmmm....that doesn't exactly match what I understand from overthecap. Agreed on current year cap implications -- $366k savings for pre-1 June and $2.2M after. His dead cap money is $3.6M. Doing the post-1 June move splits that in half between this year and next. That means we would take $1.8M this year (subtracted from the $4M cap number for 2017 gets you the $2.2M savings) and $1.8M pushed to 2018.

what Jake was quoting was what Sheil Kapadia of ESPN posted 3 days ago.

But given the way Kearse's contract is structured, cutting him wouldn't give the Seahawks much cap relief. They'd save only $366,666 by releasing him.

They could bump that number up to $2.2 million by using a post-June 1 designation on Kearse. But that would defer $1.8M of his remaining cap charge to next offseason.

Bottom line: neither option is ideal.

But there's also the issue of pure cash charge. Kearse is due $2.2 million in base salary for 2017. If the Seahawks simply determine that the other wide receivers are better options than Kearse and replace his roster spot with a rookie, they could save roughly $1.735 million in cash.

So where does that leave us?

My sense has always been that the coaches and people inside the Seahawks' building value Kearse more than people on the outside -- especially when it comes to culture and being a good teammate. Having said that, Pete Carroll did replace him with Lockett in the starting lineup late last season before Lockett injured his leg.

If some of the lesser known receivers outplay Kearse in camp, there is a slim possibility that the team will look to save the cash and let him go. But that seems unlikely, especially considering that Lockett is coming off an injury and Richardson is entering the final year of his deal.

More likely, the team could look to part ways with Kearse next offseason. Doing so then would free up $5 million in cap space.

It's possible that Kearse sees a diminished role if the players behind him emerge. But more than likely, he'll stick on the roster for 2017.

 

[JMR]

what Jake was quoting was what Sheil Kapadia of ESPN posted 3 days ago.

But given the way Kearse's contract is structured, cutting him wouldn't give the Seahawks much cap relief. They'd save only $366,666 by releasing him.

They could bump that number up to $2.2 million by using a post-June 1 designation on Kearse. But that would defer $1.8M of his remaining cap charge to next offseason.

This doesn't conflict with what I originally posted. I said it would be a $2.2M savings this year if we cut him after 1 June, which is 100% true.

 

[jakedog56]

This doesn't conflict with what I originally posted. I said it would be a $2.2M savings this year if we cut him after 1 June, which is 100% true.

Yes, but all that does is defer it and add next year's remaining bonus charge onto the cap hit in 2018. It would not be a smart move and not the type of move the Seahawks management is prone to do. We don't sacrifice the future for a small reward today like the Redskins or other teams tend to do.