Too early to talk about draft

[flyerhawk]

Yup this Front Office has their own unique rankings and views needs in a different light than the fanbase. Happy they didn't reach and got value through the draft.

I would much rather they go BPA than pick players that fit needs but aren't great picks at where they are being taken.

 

[MrS]

all of us debating QB, DL to be our first round picks were moot after all... Funny that neither happened after we all had our heart/mind set on that... Crazy how unpredictable our FO can be with these drafts...

How we didnt expect that after all these years is on us

 

[flyerhawk]

How we didnt expect that after all these years is on us

Who are the players that you think they should have taken? Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Carter was off their board.

Who else should they have taken at 5 or at 20?

I didn't love the Charbonet pick because I think we focus way too much on RBs and we used a 2nd rounder on an RB last year. So I can see how that could have been better.

But if you look at the entire draft, I think they did a pretty darn good job of getting high value players and ultimately filled all the spots we needed to fill.

We got a guard and center who could start this year. We got a NT. We added OLB/Edge. We could argue that MLB needed to be filled but I'm not sure how important that is this year.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Who are the players that you think they should have taken? Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Carter was off their board.

Who else should they have taken at 5 or at 20?

I didn't love the Charbonet pick because I think we focus way too much on RBs and we used a 2nd rounder on an RB last year. So I can see how that could have been better.

But if you look at the entire draft, I think they did a pretty darn good job of getting high value players and ultimately filled all the spots we needed to fill.

We got a guard and center who could start this year. We got a NT. We added OLB/Edge. We could argue that MLB needed to be filled but I'm not sure how important that is this year.

I loved the Charbonnet pick... let me remind you without Walker last year, Seattle misses the playoffs. I think his WAR (baseball granted) was 2+. And if (and sorry, WHEN) Walker goes down this year? It's game set and match as defenses can just entirely play the passing game (which mind you we now probably have the best trio in the league but still). With Homer (last year), Dallas, however you want to put it, Seattle is not scaring anyone. With Charbonnet, they are.

Walker is not an every down back and he's certainly not great on 3rd down passing options. You and I have gone back and forth on this quite a bit, but finding not only a backup but a GOOD backup (like near starting caliber) was vital in this draft. That doesn't happen in the later rounds. It can of course... but you're chancing on finding another Tom Brady (which is a lottery pull).

The offense is set for the next regime at QB for the next 3+ years.

I'm still annoyed by the Witherspoon pick and now the sole reliance on Young to run stuff... but whatever.

 

[MrS]

Who are the players that you think they should have taken? Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Carter was off their board.

Who else should they have taken at 5 or at 20?

why assume carter wasnt there? he was, they should have taken him. skoronski would have been an ok pick too, would have been a huge upgrade at G. if not, trading down and taking van ness or kancey. we have no idea if they tried to trade down or not.

at 20 they could have had either of the smiths, myles murphy or bresee. nobody would have criticized any of those picks. taking a WR that isnt fast or big and missed an entire year is hard to swallow.

we have to beat the niners, I dont see how these draft picks have tipped the scales in our favor at all. we will probably still struggle to score on them because their DL is dominant and we didnt invest in elite talent on the OL again. and their run game is elite and we didnt invest in elite DL to shut it down.

 

[flyerhawk]

why assume carter wasnt there? he was, they should have taken him. skoronski would have been an ok pick too, would have been a huge upgrade at G. if not, trading down and taking van ness or kancey. we have no idea if they tried to trade down or not.

I assume he was off their board because he was pretty clearly the best player available at a position of need and they chose not to take him. Picking a guard at 5 is a HUGE overpay. That would be absolutely prioritizing need over BPA. They tried to trade down and couldn't find any takers. I doubt the Cardinals were willing to trade up with us.

at 20 they could have had either of the smiths, myles murphy or bresee. nobody would have criticized any of those picks. taking a WR that isnt fast or big and missed an entire year is hard to swallow.

we have to beat the niners, I dont see how these draft picks have tipped the scales in our favor at all. we will probably still struggle to score on them because their DL is dominant and we didnt invest in elite talent on the OL again. and their run game is elite and we didnt invest in elite DL to shut it down.

But none of those players(Nolan, Mazi, Murphy, or Bresee) were clear choices and all carried significant risks. Mazi might not even be the best interior DL player from his team in this draft. Bresee and Nolan Smith are pretty huge gambles, for different reasons. Saying that we failed because we didn't draft Murphy or Nolan Smith but instead we drafted Derrick Hall seems a little silly.

Maybe one of those guys will be an All-Pro. But it's not like the odds are that much better than someone like Hall.

The notion that only fast and big receivers are worth taking has been disproven over and over and over again. JSN set an OSU records for receiving yards in 2021 while soon to be 1st round draft pick receivers Garrett Wilson and Chris Olave were on the team. And it's not like he's small. 6 ft and a shade under 200 lbs is not a small receiver.

 

[MrS]

I assume he was off their board because he was pretty clearly the best player available at a position of need and they chose not to take him. Picking a guard at 5 is a HUGE overpay. That would be absolutely prioritizing need over BPA. They tried to trade down and couldn't find any takers. I doubt the Cardinals were willing to trade up with us.

Do we know for a fact they tried to trade down? Guard at 5 is high, but he was the top OL and could play RT too and would be an upgrade over Lucas.

But none of those players(Nolan, Mazi, Murphy, or Bresee) were clear choices and all carried significant risks.

Njigba arguably carries more risk.

Mazi might not even be the best interior DL player from his team in this draft. Bresee and Nolan Smith are pretty huge gambles, for different reasons. Saying that we failed because we didn't draft Murphy or Nolan Smith but instead we drafted Derrick Hall seems a little silly.

the whole draft is a gamble, I would have preferred gambling on an area of desperate need rather than an area where we are solid on a player with an injury history

Maybe one of those guys will be an All-Pro. But it's not like the odds are that much better than someone like Hall.

We could have had one of them AND hall

The notion that only fast and big receivers are worth taking has been disproven over and over and over again. JSN set an OSU records for receiving yards in 2021 while soon to be 1st round draft pick receivers Garrett Wilson and Chris Olave were on the team. And it's not like he's small. 6 ft and a shade under 200 lbs is not a small receiver.

Olave and wilson are significantly faster than njigba, he is a 4.5 guy thats pretty slow and he looks slow on tape. And I didnt say he was small, just not big. then theres the fact he didnt play last year...

 

[flyerhawk]

Do we know for a fact they tried to trade down? Guard at 5 is high, but he was the top OL and could play RT too and would be an upgrade over Lucas.

Oh come on. If the Seahawks had drafted Skoronski at 5, you would have lost your shit. And arguing that he would be an upgrade over our 2nd year RT who was rated as one of the best rookies of the 2022 class is literally the epitome of not addressing needs. There was simply no way the Seahawks would have, or should have, taken a tackle.

Njigba arguably carries more risk.

Maybe. But the point here is that none of them were clearly better choices. The Seahawks ran 3 WR sets on 50% of their players in 2022. JSN significantly improves those sets over Swain or Young or whatever guy they get in the bargain bin.

the whole draft is a gamble, I would have preferred gambling on an area of desperate need rather than an area where we are solid on a player with an injury history

OK. But chasing players based on need is generally not considered smart strategy. And let's be real about WR corps. We have 2 very good receivers. That's it. And one of those guys gets dinged up every year and is on the wrong side of 30. And when Tyler does get hurt, our offense screeches to a halt.

We could have had one of them AND hall

Maybe. We would still have to fill the receiver position.

Olave and wilson are significantly faster than njigba, he is a 4.5 guy thats pretty slow and he looks slow on tape. And I didnt say he was small, just not big. then theres the fact he didnt play last year...

Antonio Brown ran a 4.56. Davante Adams ran a 4.56. Cooper Kupp ran a 4.62. Measurables don't tell the whole story. Guys that always get open are always better than speed merchants.

 

[MrS]

Oh come on. If the Seahawks had drafted Skoronski at 5, you would have lost your shit. And arguing that he would be an upgrade over our 2nd year RT who was rated as one of the best rookies of the 2022 class is literally the epitome of not addressing needs. There was simply no way the Seahawks would have, or should have, taken a tackle.

not any less than taking a CB, and at least it would have addressed a huge need.

Maybe. But the point here is that none of them were clearly better choices. The Seahawks ran 3 WR sets on 50% of their players in 2022. JSN significantly improves those sets over Swain or Young or whatever guy they get in the bargain bin.

we could have taken a WR in round 2, this bottom heavy WR draft with not great players at the top of the class.

OK. But chasing players based on need is generally not considered smart strategy. And let's be real about WR corps. We have 2 very good receivers. That's it. And one of those guys gets dinged up every year and is on the wrong side of 30. And when Tyler does get hurt, our offense screeches to a halt.

I dont think any of the guys I listed would have been a big reach at 20. ideally i would have traded up and taken kancey and I have a feeling they would have taken him at 20 if he was there.

Maybe. We would still have to fill the receiver position.

round 2 instead of RB which we really didnt need at that spot.

Antonio Brown ran a 4.56. Davante Adams ran a 4.56. Cooper Kupp ran a 4.62. Measurables don't tell the whole story. Guys that always get open are always better than speed merchants.

and those guys were taken 7th, 2nd, and 3rd. he could end up being a good player, thats not my problem. my problem is taking WR at 20 when he has legit questions and we have gigantic, glaring holes to fill on DL and OL.

they spent the top 4 picks on depth and ignore the teams biggest weaknesses. ill be shocked if we arent shaking our heads throughout the season wishing they had spent more capital on the trenches.

 

[flyerhawk]

not any less than taking a CB, and at least it would have addressed a huge need.

You think that guard is a much bigger need than LCB? Seriously?

we could have taken a WR in round 2, this bottom heavy WR draft with not great players at the top of the class.

I dont think any of the guys I listed would have been a big reach at 20. ideally i would have traded up and taken kancey and I have a feeling they would have taken him at 20 if he was there.

This is just Monday Morning Quarterbacking. Maybe they would have taken Kancey.

Who does Nolan Smith replace on the starting defensive line? You gonna have Nwosu and Smith on the field at the same time?

round 2 instead of RB which we really didnt need at that spot.

and those guys were taken 7th, 2nd, and 3rd. he could end up being a good player, thats not my problem. my problem is taking WR at 20 when he has legit questions and we have gigantic, glaring holes to fill on DL and OL.

So you think draft for need and not BPA. OK. To each their own. The only real question with JSN is health which I would hope the medical staff went over in detail. He had the best season of any WR in the history of OSU. He had 347 yards in the Rose Bowl.

they spent the top 4 picks on depth and ignore the teams biggest weaknesses. ill be shocked if we arent shaking our heads throughout the season wishing they had spent more capital on the trenches.

There are certainly some concerns about our DL. IMO, the biggest need was to get a space filling NT. Maybe Young can fill that roll. Maybe not. But let's not pretend that there was any other player that was a can't miss to fill that role.

 

[MrS]

You think that guard is a much bigger need than LCB? Seriously?

OL yes, we face the best DL in football twice a year, maybe three if we make the playoffs.

This is just Monday Morning Quarterbacking. Maybe they would have taken Kancey.

its being a fan, this is what we get to do, this is why we come to this board and discuss things.

Who does Nolan Smith replace on the starting defensive line? You gonna have Nwosu and Smith on the field at the same time?

you asked who we could have taken, so I listed 4-5 players. at least admit njigba wasnt a no brainer obvious pick. he wasnt.

So you think draft for need and not BPA. OK. To each their own. The only real question with JSN is health which I would hope the medical staff went over in detail. He had the best season of any WR in the history of OSU. He had 347 yards in the Rose Bowl.

we can go in circles. dude missed an entire year, dude had a bad injury, dude is slow, etc. theres nothing that says he was the BPA over all those other guys.

There are certainly some concerns about our DL. IMO, the biggest need was to get a space filling NT. Maybe Young can fill that roll. Maybe not. But let's not pretend that there was any other player that was a can't miss to fill that role.

we gave up 200 yards a game in the latter half of the season, I dont see how we made a dent in that.

 

[flyerhawk]

you asked who we could have taken, so I listed 4-5 players. at least admit njigba wasnt a no brainer obvious pick. he wasnt.

No one has said it was a no brainer. There are plenty of players they could have taken