To the LeBron haters

[LAD]

In the Finals.

But, you have to win 3 playoff series to get there. That, is a winning record.

In fact, LeBron's series playoff record since he went to Miami is 24-4. That is insanely good and could in no way be viewed as being a "loser".

But, they don't keep separate records for playoff wins/losses vs. Finals wins/losses.

 

[LAD]

And if you didn't make the finals as opposed to making the finals and losing, how is that better?

Would Karl Malone have been better off being 0-0 in the finals than 0-3?

Again, I never said it was better. A LOSS IS A LOSS.

 

[LAD]

And if you didn't make the finals as opposed to making the finals and losing, how is that better?

Would Karl Malone have been better off being 0-0 in the finals than 0-3?

I'm willing to bet he doesn't consider himself a winner with that record having just made it to the Finals.

 

[StanMarsh51]

It's not. We're not saying it is. I'll say it again - IMO losing is losing if the goal is to win a champOTE]

Read it where shaqdaddy says he'd rather be 2-0 then 2-8 in the finals

That's where I disagree

 

[Wamu]

There are no prizes for second place in basketball. You can get your team to the finals 10 times; if you only win two and lose eight, nobody will think of you as a 'winner'

Look @ Jerry West's Finals record. If you judge him only on that does that make him a loser since he's not a 'winner'?

 

[LAD]

I'm pretty sure that wasn't her point. She's saying 2-0 is a winning record vs. 2-8 - because losing 8x can't be ignored.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Look @ Jerry West's Finals record. If you judge him only on that does that make him a loser since he's not a 'winner'?

At 1-8... yes

 

[Wamu]

At 1-8... yes

Fair enough. The NBA logo should really be Robert Horry since he gots even more rings than MJ.

 

[StanMarsh51]

I'm pretty sure that wasn't her point. She's saying 2-0 is a winning record vs. 2-8 - because losing 8x can't be ignored.

2-0 also means you weren't good enough to make the finals as much.

That's my entire point... There's no sound logic to say that losing in the finals is the same as not making the finals... Your season lasted longer if you lost in the finals

 

[LAD]

Read it where shaqdaddy says he'd rather be 2-0 then 2-8 in the finals

That's where I disagree

Got it. The only other way I can explain it is this: Is their a prize for making the Finals other than a banner? No. The ultimate prize comes if you actually win the Finals.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Fair enough. The NBA logo should really be Robert Horry since he gots even more rings than MJ.

I'd highly doubt if the NBA picked a logo in todays world, Jerry West wouldn't even crack the top 100

 

[LAD]

2-0 also means you weren't good enough to make the finals as much.

That's my entire point...

and so 2-8 means you weren't good enough to win the Finals....

 

[StanMarsh51]

and so 2-8 means you weren't good enough to win the Finals....

agreed and that's not what I'm arguing so why are you bringing that up?

Not making the finals means that you're season ended earlier than those who lose in the finals, correct? Then they're not the same...

 

[Wamu]

Oh damn if Finals record is the bottom line to a players career kick every HOFer outta The Hall that either has a losing Finals record or never made it to the Finals. Oh yeah!

 

[LAD]

agreed and that's not what I'm arguing so why are you bringing that up?

Not making the finals means that you're season ended earlier than those who lose in the finals, correct? Then they're not the same...

If a team makes the Finals then the goal SHOULD BE to win. Not many are just happy they made it there. That is what you're saying though...at least that's what it sounds like.

 

[StanMarsh51]

If a team makes the Finals then the goal SHOULD BE to win. Not many are just happy they made it there. That is what you're saying though...at least that's what it sounds like.

How are you not understanding this?

I'm saying you shouldn't be happier with not making the finals than with losing in the finals. Obviously winning the finals is the ultimate goal, but why would anybody want to miss the finals rather than make it and lose.

Losing in the the finals > not making the finals, but winning the finals trumps all

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Read it where shaqdaddy says he'd rather be 2-0 then 2-8 in the finals

That's where I disagree

Why? Same amount of championships. Only difference is people will remember you for losses rather than wins win a 2-8 record.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Oh damn if Finals record is the bottom line to a players career kick every HOFer outta The Hall that either has a losing Finals record or never made it to the Finals. Oh yeah!

How many players in the top 10 of all time have never made it to the finals? Or have a losing record?

Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Hakeem.

Wilt and Lebron are the only two with losing records.

 

[Mecca]

Look @ Jerry West's Finals record. If you judge him only on that does that make him a loser since he's not a 'winner'?

Having a losing finals record doen't make him less than unless you are using comparable talent with more rings.

The Lakers had to play the Celtics who won 8 chips in a row.

Just like Malone gets a pass for being ringless in the Jordan era, West gets one for the Russell era.

Only time I'd use that against Karl is if I'm compairing him to a guy like Duncan.

If we are talking Karl vs, Horry, Horace Grant, Chris Bosh...it's Malone by a mile, even with their rings.

Look at Elgin Baylor.

He's a top 20-35 player on most lists.

He lost in the Finals 7 out of 7 times.

Does that make Byron Scott better?...lol

 

[Mecca]

How many players in the top 10 of all time have never made it to the finals? Or have a losing record?

Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Hakeem.

Wilt and Lebron are the only two with losing records.

Top 10?

Yep, just those two.