Sportshoopla Top 25 Week 3 Discussion Thread

[ericd7633]

Here we go again.

I'm assuming you have Maryland 5th in your rankings? That's where they are in the overall efficiency rankings.

I have them like 15th or something. But it doesn't surprise me they are that high. Defensive efficiency is simply a better metric than using ppg against. You want to penalize Okie St for giving up garbage TD's? lol. I mean it's no different than me saying you think Minnesota is the 3rd best defense in the country? Efficiency metrics take into account schedule strength and EWP, I don't understand how one can think ppg against is still the best to use?

 

[Across The Field]

I have them like 15th or something. But it doesn't surprise me they are that high. Defensive efficiency is simply a better metric than using ppg against. You want to penalize Okie St for giving up garbage TD's? lol. I mean it's no different than me saying you think Minnesota is the 3rd best defense in the country? Efficiency metrics take into account schedule strength and EWP, I don't understand how one can think ppg against is still the best to use?

So you're telling me Duke has the best defense in the entire country then, right? I mean, defensive efficiency, en sech.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Nah, we were better than them last year.

Thats very debatable I disagree.They won the game on the field,the division and conference.But I believe this is @tnapucco s point. Consistency.....

 

[tnapucco]

Your opinion is invalid. Transitive property holds no merit.

In this case, it is the proof. Merit isn't debatable.

Pokes beat Pitt in Pitt's stadium more soundly then Penn State beat Pitt in Penn State's stadium.

You're being a contrarian.

 

[Across The Field]

Thats very debatable I disagree.They won the game on the field,the division and conference.But I believe this is @tnapucco s point. Consistency.....

Nah. They had every single possible thing in their favor in that game and still got their ass whooped on the field, but were the luckiest team of the year with that blocked FG return. They won on a fluke, but we were the better team. Every metric backed that up.

 

[Across The Field]

In this case, it is the proof. Merit isn't debatable.

Pokes beat Pitt in Pitt's stadium more soundly then Penn State beat Pitt in Penn State's stadium.

You're being a contrarian.

Nope, that's pretty much the definition of the transitive property. It's not proof of anything except that last Saturday, Oklahoma State played a slightly better game against Pitt than Penn St. did the week before. Literally means nothing when comparing PSU and Okie State, considering both teams stomped Pitt.

 

[tnapucco]

Nope, that's pretty much the definition of the transitive property. It's not proof of anything except that last Saturday, Oklahoma State played a slightly better game against Pitt than Penn St. did the week before. Literally means nothing when comparing PSU and Okie State, considering both teams stomped Pitt.

Oh it's proof of everything and you know it Mary Mary.

"Slightly better"... GUFFAW!~

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Nah. They had every single possible thing in their favor in that game and still got their ass whooped on the field, but were the luckiest team of the year with that blocked FG return. They won on a fluke, but we were the better team. Every metric backed that up.

Blocked FG's are part of the game.And OSU had their chance to win.Games are 60 minutes.But thats veering off the point.If we are basing rankings on certain criteria.Those criteria apply to all teams.Otherwise its really nothing more than opinion......But the ranking system is a flawed system so...

 

[ericd7633]

So you're telling me Duke has the best defense in the entire country then, right? I mean, defensive efficiency, en sech.

No, but it's a more accurate depiction than using ppg against IMO. I mean Duke is really the only outlier in the top 10, but even then, when you look at who they've played, they've only given up 15 a game, and one of those was a garbage TD against NW. Don't get me wrong, I think PSU has a good defense, but given the competition they've played, using ppg against is really skewed.

 

[ericd7633]

Nah. They had every single possible thing in their favor in that game and still got their ass whooped on the field, but were the luckiest team of the year with that blocked FG return. They won on a fluke, but we were the better team. Every metric backed that up.

Using metrics huh?

 

[Across The Field]

Blocked FG's are part of the game.And OSU had their chance to win.Games are 60 minutes.But thats veering off the point.If we are basing rankings on certain criteria.Those criteria apply to all teams.Otherwise its really nothing more than opinion......But the ranking system is a flawed system so...

Tell me about it. Oklahoma finished ahead of Ohio State last year after we murdered them.

 

[Across The Field]

Using metrics huh?

Always have. Just not the same convoluted ones as you.

 

[Across The Field]

No, but it's a more accurate depiction than using ppg against IMO. I mean Duke is really the only outlier in the top 10, but even then, when you look at who they've played, they've only given up 15 a game, and one of those was a garbage TD against NW. Don't get me wrong, I think PSU has a good defense, but given the competition they've played, using ppg against is really skewed.

Oklahoma State is a huge outlier. They've been in the top 25 of your efficiency rankings on the defensive side of the ball once in the last 5 years. Also, Wake Forest isn't an outlier? Seriously?

 

[ericd7633]

Always have. Just not the same convoluted ones as you.

I don't think any one metric is perfect, but one that takes into account schedule strength, pace of play, and EWP seems more reasonable. Guess we'll never agree.

 

[Across The Field]

I don't think any one metric is perfect, but one that takes into account schedule strength, pace of play, and EWP seems more reasonable. Guess we'll never agree.

Weren't your metrics the ones that led you to believe Stanford was one of the top teams in the nation this year?

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Tell me about it. Oklahoma finished ahead of Ohio State last year after we murdered them.

Do you mean after Ohio State showed everyone why they belonged in the CFP against Clemson?This is why I enjoy reading the weekly poll threads.It gives a great dynamic of how the human polls work.It really is quite interesting.However this system will always hold bias and human error.I prefer the metrics on the score board and the direct results on the field imo.Its much more difficult to win a conference than one game.And H2H trumps indirect comparisons but thats my opinion

 

[ericd7633]

Oklahoma State is a huge outlier. They've been in the top 25 of your efficiency rankings on the defensive side of the ball once in the last 5 years. Also, Wake Forest isn't an outlier? Seriously?

All that tells me is that they're capable of having an elite defense every once in a while. They were 4th in 2013. They weren't good on defense last year. I won't deny that. And no Wake Forest isn't an outlier, they were good on defense last year, and appear to be even better this year.

 

[ericd7633]

Weren't your metrics the ones that led you to believe Stanford was one of the top teams in the nation this year?

No.

 

[Across The Field]

All that tells me is that they're capable of having an elite defense every once in a while. They were 4th in 2013. They weren't good on defense last year. I won't deny that. And no Wake Forest isn't an outlier, they were good on defense last year, and appear to be even better this year.

So you truly believe Wake Forest is one of the 10 best defensive teams in the nation this season, no doubt?

 

[Cowboyinexile]

Quality detective work there, Ace.

Penn State deserves to be ahead of Oklahoma State because unlike them, PSU has an elite offense AND defense. They're 11th in points for and 2nd in points against, while Okie State is 3rd in points for but 34th in points against.

I'm not going to say our defense is better than Penn State but as been mentioned points allowed isn't the best metric.

You gotta remember offensive starters weren't the only players pulled by the middle of the 3rd quarter in each of our games. We gifted Tulsa 17 points to Tulsa in the first half of the opener (bobbled punt return and fumble) which wasn't on our defense. The other two games they shut the other team down early and by the time South Alabama or Pitt tried to get in a offensive rhythm the game was out of hand.

Penn State didn't put Pitt away until the secould half. Granted they have taken care of business with the other two but Oklahoma State looked better on the road against a common opponent Penn State had at home.

It both take care of business the rest of the way it won't matter but for now the only measurement we have is against a common opponent.