POLL So who wins the B1G in 2018?

[ralphiewvu]

Yeah I'm with you there. I don't want to have to root for the Pats but damn.

I'm fairly certain this conversation started with "who is going to be the best QB this season", not "who has put up the most numbers to this point." I'm aware that Lewerke has a year of starting experience and stats. It doesn't mean I think he's going to be better this coming season, which I very clearly don't. Right now, Haskins doesn't have the experience. It hardly means he's not as good.

McSorley isn't a horrible choice, but with everything he's losing, it's hard to imagine him duplicating his stats from last year.

I agree, I’m rooting for the meteor more than anything. Then my block numbers. Then I guess the hateriots.

No this conversation started when you said Haskins in the best qb in the B1G. I disagreed. An I never said Haskins won’t be good. I just don’t think he is the best qb in the B1G. But my opinion and will own it if I’m wrong.

Honestly it could be a few guys. You make valid points that McSorely loses a lot around him. An until last season I never really thought he was a good qb. I’m interested to see what Patterson does in Ann Arbor too. An of course a few Wisconsin fans have been touting next years O. We’ll see about that.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Not excuses. You really don't know what you're talking about. You're as bad as eric. Barrett had an amazing season, and Cardale had an amazing National Championship run in the playoff. They had a competition and Cardale won. Pretty simple.

You can also eat a dick talking about Weber. You've done nothing but talk about how he's average and nothing special at all, so defending him now is not something you're going to get away with. He was hurt, Dobbins stepped in and balled out, simple as that. Also, something I'm sure you're unaware of - they were in a timeshare for a good amount of games. There were 6 games where they were within 3 carries of each other, or Weber had more carries. Then there was the Michigan State game where Weber outrushed Dobbins by a pretty good margin, so it's not like Dobbins just took all the carries and Weber got a few here and there.

Finally, these two situations truly aren't even close to Haskins/Barrett. I don't know how you're struggling with this.

Cardale/Barrett - both previously played, Cardale won a title, they held an actual QB competition and Cardale won. Eventually Barrett won his job back.

Weber/Dobbins - Weber had a solid RS Freshman year, was hurt to start the year and Dobbins proceeded to break the OSU rookie rushing record for a game in his first start. You're not going to just sit him on the bench, plus in case you're not aware, many teams employ 2 RBs throughout a season.

Haskins/Barrett - Haskins was a RS Freshman. Never had taken a snap. Get it? Barrett was a 3 year starter with multiple team and conference records. Get it? There was no QB competition held. Are you honestly so dense that you think it's impossible for a player who sat behind another one to outplay him the following year when he gets a shot? Clearly Barrett was a better QB than Braxton, but he sat behind him and would've still sat behind him in 2014 had Braxton not gotten hurt.

Here is what you do not get — these coaches do not care. If Haskins is as good as you continue to say, Barrett would have been on the bench. Get it? They don’t care if you have a record or you started last year. They care about one thing.........winning.

If Haskins were REMOTELY close to Barrett — he would have started against Wisconsin. Instead, Barrett was behind center. Why do you think that is, when OSU has the best QB in the B1G as Barrett’s backup? It is simple — Meyer would rather have Barrett at 75% health than Haskins at 100% health.

I do think it is humorous that Barrett and Cardale had a competition for the starting job, yet Barrett and Haskins didn’t? Maybe Meyer hasn’t had the chance to see Haskins as much as you have? Maybe you know more than Urban?

And Weber is the perfect example for this. He is a good RB, not great. He lost his starting job to a RB who can be great. Barrett is a good QB, not great. If Haskins were the talent you have talked him up to be — Meyer would have done everything in his power to find ways to get him on the field. Instead, he was relegated to mop up duties.

 

[Across The Field]

I agree, I’m rooting for the meteor more than anything. Then my block numbers. Then I guess the hateriots.

No this conversation started when you said Haskins in the best qb in the B1G. I disagreed. An I never said Haskins won’t be good. I just don’t think he is the best qb in the B1G. But my opinion and will own it if I’m wrong.

Honestly it could be a few guys. You make valid points that McSorely loses a lot around him. An until last season I never really thought he was a good qb. I’m interested to see what Patterson does in Ann Arbor too. An of course a few Wisconsin fans have been touting next years O. We’ll see about that.

When I said he's the best QB in the B1G I assumed it was implied I was talking about next season. Obviously we're not set to kick off next weekend or anything. That is your opinion and that's fine.

Yeah it could be. I'm thinking Patterson will eventually get it together and he could be really, really good. However acclimating to a brand new offense will take time. If McSorely was even getting back half of his top pass catchers he would be the best candidate. However, losing not only 5/6 top pass catchers along with Barkley will hurt. Mile Sanders is a really good RB but he doesn't offer the versatility Barkley did. He will still have a good year but I think it's a stretch to say he's good for 3,570/28/10 again. Hornibrook isn't that good to begin with, so I doubt he's going to be a contender. When we faced them in the CCG, I wasn't impressed by him at all. If Taylor isn't getting his yards, Hornibrook is average at best.

 

[Across The Field]

Here is what you do not get — these coaches do not care. If Haskins is as good as you continue to say, Barrett would have been on the bench. Get it? They don’t care if you have a record or you started last year. They care about one thing.........winning.

If Haskins were REMOTELY close to Barrett — he would have started against Wisconsin. Instead, Barrett was behind center. Why do you think that is, when OSU has the best QB in the B1G as Barrett’s backup? It is simple — Meyer would rather have Barrett at 75% health than Haskins at 100% health.

I do think it is humorous that Barrett and Cardale had a competition for the starting job, yet Barrett and Haskins didn’t? Maybe Meyer hasn’t had the chance to see Haskins as much as you have? Maybe you know more than Urban?

And Weber is the perfect example for this. He is a good RB, not great. He lost his starting job to a RB who can be great. Barrett is a good QB, not great. If Haskins were the talent you have talked him up to be — Meyer would have done everything in his power to find ways to get him on the field. Instead, he was relegated to mop up duties.

Blah Blah Blah. Guess what? Braxton was in line to start in 2014 before he got hurt. I can tell you right now there's no way he's putting up the insane numbers Barrett did passing that year, because he wasn't that good of a true QB. There's a reason he was moved to WR. However, Urban would've started him over Barrett. Know why? He was a 3 year starter, he was a winner, and above all else, he was the unquestioned leader.

If you watched the Wisconsin game, you'd know starting Barrett might not have been the smartest choice. He didn't play great that game. That one long TD really skewed his numbers. His INTs were atrocious. We should've won by a LOT more. He left 2-3 TD passes on the field because his touch is trash. Seriously, go look. If you want I can even point out when in the game they happened. Phrases like "oh man, you know he wishes he had that one back" were pretty common that game. Same with USC - our defense won that game. Barrett was garbage.

Barrett and Cardale had a competition because their experience was similar - Barrett played 12 games, but really only beat 1-2 good teams. Cardale, meanwhile, steamrolled 3 top 10 teams. Why the hell wouldn't you have a competition? This season was a dramatically different scenario. I've explained it to you already. If you don't get it, I can't help you.

Weber is the perfect example, yet his situation was also very different. HE GOT HURT. Why don't you understand that? If anything, it proves my point perfectly, because it's just what happened with Barrett and Braxton. Braxton was going to be the starter without question but he got hurt. Barrett stepped in and balled out so Braxton, our 3 year starter and former B1G POY moved positions. Barrett didn't get hurt in 2017, so there was no need to put Haskins in. The one game he did get hurt in, Haskins looked amazing.

If you can tell me right now you don't think Haskins is that good, go ahead. Telling me he can't possibly be better than Barrett because he wasn't able to surpass him in a QB competition that didn't exist is retarded though. Tell me who you'd rather have starting on your team next year - Tua or Jalen Hurts. In 2015, Kyle Bolin started over Lamar Jackson for for half the year. You telling me he was clearly better? Why didn't Urban start Tebow full time over Chris Leak in 2006? There are TONS of examples like this that back up my point.

 

[ralphiewvu]

When I said he's the best QB in the B1G I assumed it was implied I was talking about next season. Obviously we're not set to kick off next weekend or anything. That is your opinion and that's fine.

Yeah it could be. I'm thinking Patterson will eventually get it together and he could be really, really good. However acclimating to a brand new offense will take time. If McSorely was even getting back half of his top pass catchers he would be the best candidate. However, losing not only 5/6 top pass catchers along with Barkley will hurt. Mile Sanders is a really good RB but he doesn't offer the versatility Barkley did. He will still have a good year but I think it's a stretch to say he's good for 3,570/28/10 again. Hornibrook isn't that good to begin with, so I doubt he's going to be a contender. When we faced them in the CCG, I wasn't impressed by him at all. If Taylor isn't getting his yards, Hornibrook is average at best.

It wasn’t assumed. You said just plain and simple Haskins is the best, not will be the best. He is the best. That’s where the disconnect started. He certainly has the potential to be. But right now he is not. That was my whole argument.

An I agree on hornibrook. I always thought Wisconsin last year was a product of their defense. Not their offense. An with Patterson, are we sure he is even elible to play?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Blah Blah Blah. Guess what? Braxton was in line to start in 2014 before he got hurt. I can tell you right now there's no way he's putting up the insane numbers Barrett did passing that year, because he wasn't that good of a true QB. There's a reason he was moved to WR. However, Urban would've started him over Barrett. Know why? He was a 3 year starter, he was a winner, and above all else, he was the unquestioned leader.

If you watched the Wisconsin game, you'd know starting Barrett might not have been the smartest choice. He didn't play great that game. That one long TD really skewed his numbers. His INTs were atrocious. We should've won by a LOT more. He left 2-3 TD passes on the field because his touch is trash. Seriously, go look. If you want I can even point out when in the game they happened. Phrases like "oh man, you know he wishes he had that one back" were pretty common that game. Same with USC - our defense won that game. Barrett was garbage.

Barrett and Cardale had a competition because their experience was similar - Barrett played 12 games, but really only beat 1-2 good teams. Cardale, meanwhile, steamrolled 3 top 10 teams. Why the hell wouldn't you have a competition? This season was a dramatically different scenario. I've explained it to you already. If you don't get it, I can't help you.

Weber is the perfect example, yet his situation was also very different. HE GOT HURT. Why don't you understand that? If anything, it proves my point perfectly, because it's just what happened with Barrett and Braxton. Braxton was going to be the starter without question but he got hurt. Barrett stepped in and balled out so Braxton, our 3 year starter and former B1G POY moved positions. Barrett didn't get hurt in 2017, so there was no need to put Haskins in. The one game he did get hurt in, Haskins looked amazing.

If you can tell me right now you don't think Haskins is that good, go ahead. Telling me he can't possibly be better than Barrett because he wasn't able to surpass him in a QB competition that didn't exist is retarded though. Tell me who you'd rather have starting on your team next year - Tua or Jalen Hurts. In 2015, Kyle Bolin started over Lamar Jackson for for half the year. You telling me he was clearly better? Why didn't Urban start Tebow full time over Chris Leak in 2006? There are TONS of examples like this that back up my point.

If you think ANY coach, not just Urban Meyer, isn’t having positional competitions EVERY YEAR, you are kidding yourself.

CFB coaches have ONE JOB..........win football games. Period. The more they win, the more they get paid. The more they win, the more famous they get. The more they win, the bigger the legacy they leave behind gets.

If Urban Meyer felt even the most minuscule reason that Haskins was a better QB than Barrett and gave OSU a better chance to win. HE WOULD HAVE IMMEDIATELY BEEN NAMED THE STARTER.

Same goes for Tebow and Leak — if you notice, Tebow played in almost every game for Florida that year. Why? Because he was a better run option than Leak. With Tua and Hurts — one game doesn’t make a QB. Tua can make throws Hurts can’t, but Hurts is the better runner and most of all, protects the football. If Saban felt Tua was the better QB — he would have been the starter, just like Hurts was named the starter over more experienced backups as a true freshman.

Could Haskins be great? Yes. Could he struggle? Yes. Is he the best QB in the B1G right now? Not even Urban Meyer, himself, would say something so ridiculous, when the guy has never started a single game.

 

[kburjr]

. Hornibrook isn't that good to begin with, so I doubt he's going to be a contender.

An I agree on hornibrook. I always thought Wisconsin last year was a product of their defense. Not their offense. An with Patterson, are we sure he is even elible to play?

Don't fall asleep on Hornibrook. Not nutswinging, but he is the 2nd highest rayed QB returning in the B1G. Passing efficiency rating of 148.6 compared to McSorley's 153.7. Those numbers were put up without his #1 & 2 receivers for most of the season.

 

[ralphiewvu]

Don't fall asleep on Hornibrook. Not nutswinging, but he is the 2nd highest rayed QB returning in the B1G. Passing efficiency rating of 148.6 compared to McSorley's 153.7. Those numbers were put up without his #1 & 2 receivers for most of the season.

Wow, I did not realize that. I’ll add him to the list of people I watch. That’s a really good rating efficiency wise.

 

[Across The Field]

It wasn’t assumed. You said just plain and simple Haskins is the best, not will be the best. He is the best. That’s where the disconnect started. He certainly has the potential to be. But right now he is not. That was my whole argument.

An I agree on hornibrook. I always thought Wisconsin last year was a product of their defense. Not their offense. An with Patterson, are we sure he is even elible to play?

Well my mistake there then.

They were definitely a product of their defense and running game. However, as OSU showed, when you slow down Taylor you slow down the entire offense. Patterson is still not sure, but the case they have is pretty damn strong. Seems like every recruit that year was pretty badly misled by Freeze.

 

[Across The Field]

If you think ANY coach, not just Urban Meyer, isn’t having positional competitions EVERY YEAR, you are kidding yourself.

CFB coaches have ONE JOB..........win football games. Period. The more they win, the more they get paid. The more they win, the more famous they get. The more they win, the bigger the legacy they leave behind gets.

If Urban Meyer felt even the most minuscule reason that Haskins was a better QB than Barrett and gave OSU a better chance to win. HE WOULD HAVE IMMEDIATELY BEEN NAMED THE STARTER.

Same goes for Tebow and Leak — if you notice, Tebow played in almost every game for Florida that year. Why? Because he was a better run option than Leak. With Tua and Hurts — one game doesn’t make a QB. Tua can make throws Hurts can’t, but Hurts is the better runner and most of all, protects the football. If Saban felt Tua was the better QB — he would have been the starter, just like Hurts was named the starter over more experienced backups as a true freshman.

Could Haskins be great? Yes. Could he struggle? Yes. Is he the best QB in the B1G right now? Not even Urban Meyer, himself, would say something so ridiculous, when the guy has never started a single game.

Alright man, whatever you say. Again, there are dozens of examples over the past few years of backups coming in the following year and outplaying their predecessors, but whatever you say. You must know more about Haskins than I do.

Tebow never started once as a freshman, and Leak was not good. He definitely wasn't anywhere near as good as Barrett, that's for sure.

As I've said to you now at least a dozen times, when the season is over and Haskins isn't the best you let me know. Based on what I've seen from him, and heard from people in the program, I'm not too worried about that.

 

[Across The Field]

Don't fall asleep on Hornibrook. Not nutswinging, but he is the 2nd highest rayed QB returning in the B1G. Passing efficiency rating of 148.6 compared to McSorley's 153.7. Those numbers were put up without his #1 & 2 receivers for most of the season.

That 25/15 TD:INT ratio is really troubling to consider him in the mix, especially with Fumagalli gone. That guy changed the game in so many ways, much like Gesicki at Penn State. Both guys are going to be sorely missed.

 

[kburjr]

That 25/15 TD:INT ratio is really troubling to consider him in the mix, especially with Fumagalli gone. That guy changed the game in so many ways, much like Gesicki at Penn State. Both guys are going to be sorely missed.

The TD/Int ratio is troubling but I lay some of that in having to work with new receiver sets all season, or so it seemed. I'd have to look back but I think we used 4-5 differents sets of starters.

Also, something to be said for having another year of starting behind him. I think we could see improvenet in the passing game and if Taylor can develop some pass catching skills, Hornibrook's game can get much better

 

[Across The Field]

The TD/Int ratio is troubling but I lay some of that in having to work with new receiver sets all season, or so it seemed. I'd have to look back but I think we used 4-5 differents sets of starters.

Also, something to be said for having another year of starting behind him. I think we could see improvenet in the passing game and if Taylor can develop some pass catching skills, Hornibrook's game can get much better

What's the backup situation behind him? I thought I saw one of you Badgers touting some other guy in the QB room.

 

[kburjr]

What's the backup situation behind him? I thought I saw one of you Badgers touting some other guy in the QB room.

So. Jack Doan Only played a little mop-up as a freshman. Converted lacrosse player. Runs better and has a stringer arm, highly touted QB but still somewhat unknown. My main isue with Great Dayne is that the offense is set up for a lefty and Doan is right handed. I know it seems like a small thing but it does give Hornibrook a leg up. Who knows? Doan may beat Hornibrook out, but I don't see how.

 

[Across The Field]

So. Jack Doan Only played a little mop-up as a freshman. Converted lacrosse player. Runs better and has a stringer arm, highly touted QB but still somewhat unknown. My main isue with Great Dayne is that the offense is set up for a lefty and Doan is right handed. I know it seems like a small thing but it does give Hornibrook a leg up. Who knows? Doan may beat Hornibrook out, but I don't see how.

So that's something I just learned. How can an offense be set up for a lefty? I've never heard that before.

 

[broncosmitty]

Which 12 idiots voted for Michigan?

 

[kburjr]

So that's something I just learned. How can an offense be set up for a lefty? I've never heard that before.

It is easier for a lefty to throw to the left/middle and a righty to the right/middle. The reads generally go from your strong side to the weak side. All about footwork, especially for play-action passes Also, the spin on the ball is opposite. The receivers have to adjust for that. I was a big Ken Stabler fan in the day and I remember the commentators remarking on that.

 

[Across The Field]

It is easier for a lefty to throw to the left/middle and a righty to the right/middle. The reads generally go from your strong side to the weak side. All about footwork, especially for play-action passes Also, the spin on the ball is opposite. The receivers have to adjust for that. I was a big Ken Stabler fan in the day and I remember the commentators remarking on that.

That makes sense. I remember back when Vick was on Pittsburgh and Ben got hurt. Antonio Brown was saying how difficult it was to catch passes from a lefty when he was used to a righty. That's interesting.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Alright man, whatever you say. Again, there are dozens of examples over the past few years of backups coming in the following year and outplaying their predecessors, but whatever you say. You must know more about Haskins than I do.

Tebow never started once as a freshman, and Leak was not good. He definitely wasn't anywhere near as good as Barrett, that's for sure.

As I've said to you now at least a dozen times, when the season is over and Haskins isn't the best you let me know. Based on what I've seen from him, and heard from people in the program, I'm not too worried about that.

Tebow wasn’t as good as Leak.......as a passer. He was better as a runner, which is why, OHIO STATE COACH Urban Meyer found ways to get Tebow on the field as a true freshman, even though Chris Leak was a 4 year starter. IF Haskins was as good as you have tried saying — Urban Meyer would have found a way to get him on the field, just like he did with Tebow.

And stop with the talk of what I heard from those in the program and what you’ve seen from him. He saw mop up duty and didn’t start a single game. And your inside knowledge of the program is the same as everyone else on this site — what you read online.

Lastly Haskins could be the best QB by year’s end, but saying it now is nothing more than being a homer. The guy has zero CFB starts and his own coach didn’t trust starting him over a one legged Barrett in the Big CG

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Alright man, whatever you say. Again, there are dozens of examples over the past few years of backups coming in the following year and outplaying their predecessors, but whatever you say. You must know more about Haskins than I do.

Tebow never started once as a freshman, and Leak was not good. He definitely wasn't anywhere near as good as Barrett, that's for sure.

As I've said to you now at least a dozen times, when the season is over and Haskins isn't the best you let me know. Based on what I've seen from him, and heard from people in the program, I'm not too worried about that.

Carson Wentz is lucky Urban Meyer doesn’t coach the Eagles. Nick Foles would be taking his job.