so whats the move...

[sfsportsfan]

concerning Timmy. my dad and I are arguing about this. even though he's blown more dicks than Elton this year, he's still my favorite Giant, and his struggles have frustrated me more than any other that I've seen.

dont say fresno, thats simply not going to happen. my uncle said its time to bump him to bullpen, which sparked this argument.i say, you pitch him #2 after the break. send him a message, that right now hes not the ace. this sets up to have Bum #1, and Cain behind him to be his pick up if he struggles(also gives Cain a lil bit of a break post-ASG). then give him the chance vs Houston to build some confidence. if he sucks, he goes to the pen for a bit.

my dad says set up the rotation as Cain, Bum, Vogey, Zeet, Timmy, meaning Timmys next start is in Atlanta, where it will be blistering hot, and their offense is much better than Houston's.

his problems are mental, and building confidence will be easier vs Houston in SF than in ATL. if he shits the bed, he goes to the pen, and Penny starts for a bit.


Also, during the break, do you give him time off, or is he back working with Rags. Again, i believe its mental, so let him go home, make him eat as much In N Out as possible, and come back fresh.










Feel free to call me an idiot if need be

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

rotation has been set for 2nd half to start as Bum, Cain, Timmy
While I agree Fresno doesn't work necessarily, I'm not a believer in the move him down that will show him approach. I would say put him in the bullpen for awhile. We have seen that he has 2 maybe 3 good innings. Bring him in relief, let him get those 2-3 innings build his confidence and allow him more chances to work on his command and see what works. Granted that does leave us with the problem who is our 5th Starter. I can't answer that in all honesty

 

[sfsportsfan]

i would assume Penny will be the fill in guy. the problem i see with the bullpen move is, often the first inning is his worst. take the Oakland game for example, his first was awful, then he locked, struck out the side and was on fire the rest of the game. it kinda looks like he may need to throw more warm up pitches or something. being in the pen, he wont have the opportunity to warm up the way he needs.

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

We unfortunately don't have the rotation depth. Looking at the schedule after the break, this would be how I would do it
13th (Bumgarner)
14th (Cain)
15th (Vogey)
16th OFF DAY
17th (Zito)
18th (Bumgarner)
19th (Cain)
20th (Vogey)
21st (Lincecum)

From the 13th to the 20th you let Lincecum work in the bullpen and just get his head back in it. Then he starts the 21st @PHI.

 

[msgkings322]

We unfortunately don't have the rotation depth. Looking at the schedule after the break, this would be how I would do it
13th (Bumgarner)
14th (Cain)
15th (Vogey)
16th OFF DAY
17th (Zito)
18th (Bumgarner)
19th (Cain)
20th (Vogey)
21st (Lincecum)

From the 13th to the 20th you let Lincecum work in the bullpen and just get his head back in it. Then he starts the 21st @PHI.

Clever idea, but too clever by half. They just aren't going to treat him like a rookie scrub who can't figure out his shit, even though that's what he looks like this year.

I don't know what they'll do, seems like they already said he's pitching on the 15th. I had thought Penny was here to replace him but maybe Penny is here to be the guy that comes in in the 4th inning for Timmy when he needs it.

Any more comments from Daddy Lincecum about how we're not treating his boy with enough respect?

What are the chances we try to bring in a starter for just this year (not Penny, a decent one...Dempster, etc?)

 

[msgkings322]

I will say this. If we miss the playoffs by 3-4 games (or less) it will be ENTIRELY Tim's fault. Which just sucks.

In games he's started the Giants are 4-14. Even a mediocre 5th starter (or rotating cast of 5th starters) should look more like 7-11 over 18 starts.

 

[gp956]

Id like to give Timmy one more start.....but I won't. I'd move him to the bullpen, for mop up duty. I'd insert Penny into the starting rotation, and assume I'm going to need to add some tread to my bullpen before the season is over. That means adding some low mileage arms, and sending a few high milers out.

 

[Mays-Fan]

Id like to give Timmy one more start.....but I won't. I'd move him to the bullpen, for mop up duty. I'd insert Penny into the starting rotation, and assume I'm going to need to add some tread to my bullpen before the season is over. That means adding some low mileage arms, and sending a few high milers out.

His velocity is down - only 90mph on his fastball. I'd rest him as long as possible, as suggested above. If he craps the bed in that start, I'd put him on the 15 day DL. If there is no specific and identifiable injury causing this, then I would rest him the rest of July, minimum.

He probably needs time to heal his mind as much as his body.

 

[SFAnthem]

Keep pitching him til August. Although skipping a start wouldnt be a bad idea. Plan for a replacement now. Penny's a nice thought as an emergency guy but I wouldn't just automatically plug him in every fifth day.

Definitely need to get more arms for the pen. Could use another rubber Mota-like arm.

 

[SFGRTB]

Giants have Tim right in between Bum and Cain to make sure they have enough days in between possible bullpen games (Zito/Tim), to keep his confidence up and to have him have a greater chance at success the first 3 starts to start the second half of the year.

His big problem is his confidence. He needs to toke it up a bit over the break and clear his mind lol. He's been working on his mechanics all year, and the Giants have said that it is not the problem. He's just letting everything snowball on itself.

 

[SF11704]

Any more comments from Daddy Lincecum about how we're not treating his boy with enough respect?

This is what's troubling me the most about all that's happening. IMHO Timmy hasn't earned the RIGHT to stay up here and workout his issues. What he has earned is the CONSIDERATION of options. The way I see it unfoldiong there are only two elements here that have RIGHTS. One (hate to say this) is management. They are paying him 23M to perform. If he's not performing they have the right to ask him to pitch anywhere they damn well please. The other element with rights are his teammates. They are competing for a playoff spot. They have the right to expect that he will do what is best for the team and not necessarily himself. If that means pulling himself 'offline' to work his mechanics out, then so be it. I personally don't see this as a 'rough spot'. For awhile I thought he was just one or two starts from putting it all back together. That's what I wanted to believe. I just don't see an concrete improvement. I could deal with a crappy year from Timmy as long as it didn't take us out of the playoffs. I just don't know where that balance point is.

 

[SFAnthem]

This is what's troubling me the most about all that's happening. IMHO Timmy hasn't earned the RIGHT to stay up here and workout his issues. What he has earned is the CONSIDERATION of options. The way I see it unfoldiong there are only two elements here that have RIGHTS. One (hate to say this) is management. They are paying him 23M to perform. If he's not performing they have the right to ask him to pitch anywhere they damn well please. The other element with rights are his teammates. They are competing for a playoff spot. They have the right to expect that he will do what is best for the team and not necessarily himself. If that means pulling himself 'offline' to work his mechanics out, then so be it. I personally don't see this as a 'rough spot'. For awhile I thought he was just one or two starts from putting it all back together. That's what I wanted to believe. I just don't see an concrete improvement. I could deal with a crappy year from Timmy as long as it didn't take us out of the playoffs. I just don't know where that balance point is.

But then, doesn't his rights fall under the group of "teammates"? It doesn't sound like his struggles are due to a poor attitude or a lack of effort.

Everyone wants the same thing. To get Timmy right. No one knows how to do it.

 

[the_broom]

Timmy has been a black hole most of the year. It didn't bother me so much when it went 4-5 spots...I thought it was another 2010. But...he's getting bitch-slapped out there on the mound and it is painful to watch.

Should the guy come out of the rotation? Probably...but how will this impact the rest of the team? Tim is the "Ace" of the staff and led them to the playoffs/World Series in 2010. Pulling him might even make things worse for the rest of the staff...

 

[msgkings322]

Timmy has been a black hole most of the year. It didn't bother me so much when it went 4-5 spots...I thought it was another 2010. But...he's getting bitch-slapped out there on the mound and it is painful to watch.

Should the guy come out of the rotation? Probably...but how will this impact the rest of the team? Tim is the "Ace" of the staff and led them to the playoffs/World Series in 2010. Pulling him might even make things worse for the rest of the staff...

There are many things to shat about with the Tim situation, but to me this is the least of them. He hasn't been the 'ace' all year, Matty took that from him quite undeniably with his perfecto, maybe even before.

The problems are more along the lines of who gets his starts? Does he get better in the minors, or worse? Is it better to just shut him down for a month to see if it's a nagging injury? Nobody knows, that's the scary part.

Some great young pitchers just fall apart. Sometimes it's for a year and they come back. Sometimes they just don't: Dontrelle Willis?

If we win more games by pulling him, the team will be fine. I'm worried if pulling him makes things worse for him, not the rest of the staff. They know as well as we do we have to do something different because sending him out there every 5th day is no longer an option.

:nonod:

 

[msgkings322]

So according to Disney San Francisco Giants 2012 Schedule - Giants Home and Away - ESPN

Timmy starts Saturday. I guess this is to give Matty another day to rest, but also it lets Tim start vs a weak team (Houston) at home, then miss having to pitch in Atlanta, his next game is at Philly (another weak team), then he gets San Diego (ditto) at home. And he misses pitching vs the Dodgers.

So that's how they decided to handle it.

No shutting down, nothin'


:nonod:

 

[tzill]

So according to Disney San Francisco Giants 2012 Schedule - Giants Home and Away - ESPN

Timmy starts Saturday. I guess this is to give Matty another day to rest, but also it lets Tim start vs a weak team (Houston) at home, then miss having to pitch in Atlanta, his next game is at Philly (another weak team), then he gets San Diego (ditto) at home. And he misses pitching vs the Dodgers.

So that's how they decided to handle it.

No shutting down, nothin'


:nonod:

Well, if you think about it -- we are, what, 4-14 in Timmy starts? If he's the usual Timmy, we win 9 of those games. We're in first place by 4.5 games and the Snakes are pretty much out of it.

In other words, our season will be determined, in part, by how Timmy does. If he can get "it" back, we win going away. If he continues to shit the bed, we'll probably miss the playoffs unless we can replace him with someone better. I'm not sure that guy exists in the system.

 

[msgkings322]

Well, if you think about it -- we are, what, 4-14 in Timmy starts? If he's the usual Timmy, we win 9 of those games. We're in first place by 4.5 games and the Snakes are pretty much out of it.

In other words, our season will be determined, in part, by how Timmy does. If he can get "it" back, we win going away. If he continues to shit the bed, we'll probably miss the playoffs unless we can replace him with someone better. I'm not sure that guy exists in the system.

Pretty much the same point I made in post 6 upthread. If we miss the playoffs it's pretty much all on Tim.

Even if he wasn't the usual Timmy, and was just a so-so starter, you'd have to think we win 7 of those games. Putting us 2 1/2 up.

The big question is of course what do we get from him the last 13 starts? Because if the team goes 3-10 for those you are correct, no playoffs.

I would think Penny could be the next starter if they decide Tim is done this year.

 

[tzill]

Pretty much the same point I made in post 6 upthread. If we miss the playoffs it's pretty much all on Tim.

Even if he wasn't the usual Timmy, and was just a so-so starter, you'd have to think we win 7 of those games. Putting us 2 1/2 up.

The big question is of course what do we get from him the last 13 starts? Because if the team goes 3-10 for those you are correct, no playoffs.

I would think Penny could be the next starter if they decide Tim is done this year.

Yeah, I'm not convinced Penny/Hacker/etc. is going to do much better than 4-9...but who fucking knows. That's why they pay SabeySabes the large ducats and my company is banning racy gifs on SportsHoopla to cover my relatively meager salary...