Series Thread: Second-half launch, July 17-19 @ Yankees

[boogiewithstu2007]

Un fucking believable that they option Montero, what the fuck? He was hitting extremely well.

Didn't they just call him up ? Are the Mariners Bipolar ?

 

[unlvmariners]

Didn't they just call him up ? Are the Mariners Bipolar ?

Yeah, they only did it because they didn't need to recall Happ until he his spot was up in the rotation. So they brought up Montero for a few games around the all star break.

The limited flexibility with the roster is all Jack Z's fault. Very poor roster builder imo. It is a shame because this team has pieces you can win with if Jack Z just made a few different or better moves in the off season.

 

[cezero]

hey look, last place!

 

[Anointed One]

Exactly

Un fucking believable that they option Montero, what the fuck? He was hitting extremely well.

No doubt... The only guy to give us any hope was sent back down to the minors... He got on base all 3 times today for pete's sake... Something our entire team has a hard time doing...

 

[Anointed One]

Nice... Rodney changed has name to, "El Rubio"... Maybe that's why he's being kept on the roster...

 

[cezero]

Nice... Rodney changed has name to, "El Rubio"... Maybe that's why he's being kept on the roster...

they're not going to flush $3 million down the toilet, so the only way to remove him from the roster would be to trade him, and that's a tough sell.

unless he's part of some bigger deal, he'll stay here through the end of the year.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Yeah, they only did it because they didn't need to recall Happ until he his spot was up in the rotation. So they brought up Montero for a few games around the all star break.

The limited flexibility with the roster is all Jack Z's fault. Very poor roster builder imo. It is a shame because this team has pieces you can win with if Jack Z just made a few different or better moves in the off season.

I've haven't critized Jack Z much, because I know he inherited a fricking mess when he got here, but some of his moves simply haven't produced worth a dam, and at some point he's gotta be held accountable.... He's had what about 7 years now as GM ?

 

[unlvmariners]

I've haven't critized Jack Z much, because I know he inherited a fricking mess when he got here, but some of his moves simply haven't produced worth a dam, and at some point he's gotta be held accountable.... He's had what about 7 years now as GM ?

I really didn't criticized him at first either. I thought he had a good idea of what he needed to do in order to make the Mariners successful. In the beginning of the Jack Z era the team was a mess (it still is) and he was patching together teams with leftovers because he didn't have the money to spend (so he says). I actually thought he did a decent job of doing that patch work with limited funds, however he has since had lots of money to spend and has completely failed at putting together a competent team.

As I said before Seattle has pieces that are on the current roster that you can win with but Jack Z doesn't know how to balance a 25 man roster with players that are capable of producing an offense that is worth a damn. This last off season in particular was an epic fail in my opinion, and there were some moves and signings that I thought were "good" moves also some that I thought made the team worse, the biggest failure was the moves that should've happened and they didn't, and that has gotten overlooked by many baseball analysts as well as a lot of Mariner fans. Jack Z gets his "big name" then fills the rest of the roster with an awful lot of smelly shit and calls it good.

Long winded but I agree he needs to be held accountable... Something like kicking him to the curb would suffice.

 

[Anointed One]

they're not going to flush $3 million down the toilet, so the only way to remove him from the roster would be to trade him, and that's a tough sell.

unless he's part of some bigger deal, he'll stay here through the end of the year.

All true.

I was being sarcastic though. ..

 

[SeattleCoug]

This last off season in particular was an epic fail in my opinion, and there were some moves and signings that I thought were "good" moves also some that I thought made the team worse, the biggest failure was the moves that should've happened and they didn't, and that has gotten overlooked by many baseball analysts as well as a lot of Mariner fans. Jack Z gets his "big name" then fills the rest of the roster with an awful lot of smelly shit and calls it good.

Long winded but I agree he needs to be held accountable... Something like kicking him to the curb would suffice.

Yea spot on.

Things that were ignored or not addressed properly.

1. Catching- Whether it be backup or starter. Regardless the position is hitting below .150. Dave Valle even looks great by comparison.

2. 1st Base- Like I pointed out earlier Lomo is close to the worst offensive 1st baseman in baseball. I think the census was his concern to stay healthy. However it turns out he just isn't good. Pretty much no different then Smoak. Either way we all were pretty sure Lomo wasn't the answer. We were hoping he could at least be a place holder for DJ Peterson but that is another issue at this point.

3. Dustin Ackley- Relying on him to have any regular role on supposed contending team was moronic. It was known what he was before the season and yet here we are.

There are many more but I think we get the idea at this point.

 

[unlvmariners]

Yea spot on.

Things that were ignored or not addressed properly.

1. Catching- Whether it be backup or starter. Regardless the position is hitting below .150. Dave Valle even looks great by comparison.

2. 1st Base- Like I pointed out earlier Lomo is close to the worst offensive 1st baseman in baseball. I think the census was his concern to stay healthy. However it turns out he just isn't good. Pretty much no different then Smoak. Either way we all were pretty sure Lomo wasn't the answer. We were hoping he could at least be a place holder for DJ Peterson but that is another issue at this point.

3. Dustin Ackley- Relying on him to have any regular role on supposed contending team was moronic. It was known what he was before the season and yet here we are.

There are many more but I think we get the idea at this point.

yup, agreed seattlecoug

Just to add another point... These issues are not rocket science they are straight forward obvious weaknesses that a Major League baseball exec. should be able to identify.

On your catching point: This has been something that has pissed me off for awhile about this team and more so than a lot of the other issues. Zunino was a top tier prospect when drafted and the Mariners are forcing him to work out minor league issues at the major league level, as they have done with players in the past. That is not what the majors are for! Absolute terrible player development. Outside of a select few catchers the catching position doesn't have many big bats, I get that, but it is ridiculous to have this awful of production from any one position on a major league baseball team.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Oh you guys watch. Montero is Adam Jones 2 coming around. You watch this team trade him for absolute crap and Montero will be some .300 30 HR hitter with a competent team. I hope they move Seattle. I don't even want them representing the state anymore. Just leave it at Seattle and somehow let Balmer buy a hockey team.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Yea it's a shame this organization has pretty much failed him in every way. You have seen glimpses here and there that with work he could be solid. It's a shame for him that he was put in this spot.

 

[NWinAZ]

Montero's comments after the game:

"I'm fine. I'm happy," Montero said. "I just have to keep working hard and thinking about my daughter. I'm going to see her tonight, so I'm happy. I'm not making the decisions. I don't control that. I'm happy where I am right now."

"They gave me an opportunity to be here and it was fun," he said. "I want to keep working hard to be up here, I don't know when. Maybe tomorrow again, I don't know. But I'm going to continue to do my best to be out here to help this team to win."

Montero showed a patient approach in his brief time, taking three walks -- including one in his first at-bat Sunday against CC Sabathia -- at a time many youngsters would be swinging at everything trying to prove they belonged in the short window provided.


"That was important," Montero said. "Right here is a little different. You have to see more pitches and you're going to give more competition. That's what I did. I was patient, waiting for my pitch and good things happened."

 

[wazzu31]

I really didn't criticized him at first either. I thought he had a good idea of what he needed to do in order to make the Mariners successful. In the beginning of the Jack Z era the team was a mess (it still is) and he was patching together teams with leftovers because he didn't have the money to spend (so he says). I actually thought he did a decent job of doing that patch work with limited funds, however he has since had lots of money to spend and has completely failed at putting together a competent team.

As I said before Seattle has pieces that are on the current roster that you can win with but Jack Z doesn't know how to balance a 25 man roster with players that are capable of producing an offense that is worth a damn. This last off season in particular was an epic fail in my opinion, and there were some moves and signings that I thought were "good" moves also some that I thought made the team worse, the biggest failure was the moves that should've happened and they didn't, and that has gotten overlooked by many baseball analysts as well as a lot of Mariner fans. Jack Z gets his "big name" then fills the rest of the roster with an awful lot of smelly shit and calls it good.

Long winded but I agree he needs to be held accountable... Something like kicking him to the curb would suffice.

I disagree with limited funds thing. Did Seattle have the budget of a top 5 club, no but their budget has been high enough to make the playoffs at least one year of his tenure. His problem has been he wraps over 50% of his budget into a few guys every year. And Jack wasn't given a ton to work with but that's why he was hired cause he could "scout the pants off everyone" Bavasi wasn't given much to work with either but at least his teams were semi fun to watch. Jack was suppose to be some guru which we obviously know isn't true but he has had the biggest trade chip in baseball history in Felix, obviously meaning rebuilding teams. You don't need an ace or a closer in rebuild mode.

Jack's biggest problem as a GM IMO is his ego, which is rather odd because you'd think he'd be humble about getting a GM job. Make a great trade for Guti and Carp but his golden trade was for Smoak so he played Smoak even though Carp was the better player. His ego's on trades, his ego on Montero, ego on Rodney. How a GM could keep his job after all the managerial changes let alone one who walks out on him before the season is over is beyond me.

 

[unlvmariners]

I disagree with limited funds thing. Did Seattle have the budget of a top 5 club, no but their budget has been high enough to make the playoffs at least one year of his tenure. His problem has been he wraps over 50% of his budget into a few guys every year. And Jack wasn't given a ton to work with but that's why he was hired cause he could "scout the pants off everyone" Bavasi wasn't given much to work with either but at least his teams were semi fun to watch. Jack was suppose to be some guru which we obviously know isn't true but he has had the biggest trade chip in baseball history in Felix, obviously meaning rebuilding teams. You don't need an ace or a closer in rebuild mode.

Depends how you look at it in my opinion. My personal belief is a GM should be able to build a playoff roster year in year out with a middle of the road payroll. Because I believe a good GM should be able to draft well, trade well and sign free agents well and be able to balance each of those aspects accordingly. But it is a must to grow your own talent at least in some capacity.

The reason I say limited funds is because when Jack Z took over the payroll was around $100 million the first two seasons, then the payroll decreased every year after that until it was around $30 million less than when he took over. It wasn't until the 2014 season that the payroll increased again. Whenever you are getting payroll reduced that can be difficult to manage unless you have young talent emerging at the same time which was the hope but it really didn't work out that way. So I stand by saying he did a decent job with limited funds but I agree that a good GM should be able to make a playoff team out of the money he had as well as the time in which he has been given to do it.

 

[wazzu31]

Most definitely agree with the first paragraph, the Mariners can't develop crap. They've only home grown Seager and at best he is A. A fringe all star B. Showed what's wrong with the organization when there was zero plan of him being a big leaguer until he just destroyed the minors so they switched him to 3B.

And I completely get your point of view with payroll but payroll wasn't an issue until Jack blew it. They weren't ever a top payroll team but $100 million payroll in the 2000 decade is more than enough to at least be a playoff contender and he was touted as the guru who help build the small market Brewers into a playoff caliber team. I just completely disagree with his assembling of the franchise with almost every year having 40% plus of payroll on a fraction the 25 man roster.

 

[cezero]

I'm just worried that trader Jack did all of this with Montero so they can trade him.

Amazing AAA numbers all year, call him up and let scouts see him play well, and then send him back down to continue tearing shit up. If we had a decent GM we could trust to turn Montero for pieces the team needs, I'd approve. But we have Z.

 

[WizardHawk]

The ship has long since sailed on making a run to the post season, but what are the odds this crap team can still ever see .500? 70 games left and right now only 19 are against teams with a winning record. I'm skeptical that they can reach that mark even with that schedule, but they should make up some ground at some point.

 

[PolarVortex]

Didn't they just call him up ? Are the Mariners Bipolar ?

The problem is with mariner managment - mainly McClendon and Zdurenziak. They do not believe that montero can hit right handed major league pitching. They played him almost exclusively against lefties pitchers.

I disagree with that decision. If our team was hitting above average, as a hole, then I could understand how they handle montero. But, this team has scored the least runs in the American league. They should at least give Montero a shot against right-handers.

He can't run and he can't field. If they also believe that he can't hit right handed pitching then there is no reason to keep him in the organization. Give him a chance or get rid of him. He's been punished long enough.