Run game

[Skin'EmAll]

that chart makes sense when i think about it, although i need more clarity with "man" ---we talking singleback, specific formation, imbalance? that is our 2nd highest percentage? where was I during the game, lol.

 

[Krusheasy]

that chart makes sense when i think about it, although i need more clarity with "man" ---we talking singleback, specific formation, imbalance? that is our 2nd highest percentage? where was I during the game, lol.

Zone Blocking vs. Man Blocking

 

[Skin'EmAll]

Zone Blocking vs. Man Blocking

That does clear up some confusion, I couldn't understand how man, and power could be so far apart in percentage, but this is simply referring to the type of blocking. I kind of took them to be the same thing, just one without a fullback or leadback in place.

 

[Krusheasy]

here is a good one on inside vs outside zone blocking

Beginner Series: Guide to Zone Runs - NFL Breakdowns

 

[Sportster 72]

Krush coming STRONG!!!! I love it. Zone blocking works great when everyone is on the same page. LOL One guy takes the wrong man and the entire play is blown up. Although power O is still around you can see why it isn't a prevalent as it used to be. You can't just go man on man, now you have to have guys who can move also.

 

[Krusheasy]

going to share these in this thread also ... seems relevant to the blocking schemes we have been discussing

 

[Sportster 72]

I know he wasn't popular here but no one was better at teaching zone blocking than Shanahan.

Another thing is to have a good power run game you have to have a TE that is more Tackle TE. For those old enough you will remember Donnie Warren. He was like a 6th Lineman. Gibbs also used a 2nd TE that he called an HB. This TE was smaller and a little more active in the passing game but he also through Wham/Cutback/Trap blocks in the run game so when the Redskins did run they commit a lot of men to the line. I love Jordan Reed as a pass catcher but as a blocker it is LOOK OUT!!!

 

[gkekoa]

I was a Shanny fan. I just wish RG3 wasn't forced on him.

 

[Breed]

The fact that our pocket passer scored roughly 1/3 of our rushing TDs should tell you all you really need to know about our ground game.

Or to put that another way, the 4 QBs with more rushing TDs than Kirk were Prescott, Taylor, Newton and Alex Smith.


So maybe stats say over all our ground game is not as bad as we think.... but it is no where near as good as you are trying to paint it to be.

What doers Kirk having 4 rushing TDs tell you? Cuz, honestly, it says little to me one way or the other. FYI 4 is roughly 23.5% of 17 so Kirk's 4 rushing TDs are much closer to 1/4 of the rushing TDs for the Skins not 1/3. And we may as well add Kirk's 34 rushes for 96 yards on a 2.8 yard per carry average. So what does that tell us, Shark? Anything? Nothing?

I do find it odd though that in every single aspect of a running game. The 2016 Redskins were better, most times significantly better, in every category. Oh, except one.

In 2015 Kirk led the Redskins in rushing TDs with 5 and those 5 TDs accounted for a whooping 55% of the Redskins 9 total rushing TDs from 2015.

Yet I don't recall nowhere near the butt hurt and bullshit for the 2015 rushing game that the 2016 rushing game had been subject to by Skins fans and imo it was done for one reason. The KC no matter fuckin what supporters will throw anyone and everyone under the bus, whether they deserve it or not, to justify their belief or obsession, whatever the case may be in Kirk.

Does the run game need improvement? Yes, it does. Particularly in short yardage goal to go situations. It wasn't near the outright garbage some of you implied it to be. Oh, and KC could use a little improvement himself in the red zone.

 

[Sportster 72]

Or McNabb

 

[Sharkinva]

What doers Kirk having 4 rushing TDs tell you? Cuz, honestly, it says little to me one way or the other. FYI 4 is roughly 23.5% of 17 so Kirk's 4 rushing TDs are much closer to 1/4 of the rushing TDs for the Skins not 1/3. And we may as well add Kirk's 34 rushes for 96 yards on a 2.8 yard per carry average. So what does that tell us, Shark? Anything? Nothing?

I do find it odd though that in every single aspect of a running game. The 2016 Redskins were better, most times significantly better, in every category. Oh, except one.

In 2015 Kirk led the Redskins in rushing TDs with 5 and those 5 TDs accounted for a whooping 55% of the Redskins 9 total rushing TDs from 2015.

Yet I don't recall nowhere near the butt hurt and bullshit for the 2015 rushing game that the 2016 rushing game had been subject to by Skins fans and imo it was done for one reason. The KC no matter fuckin what supporters will throw anyone and everyone under the bus, whether they deserve it or not, to justify their belief or obsession, whatever the case may be in Kirk.

Does the run game need improvement? Yes, it does. Particularly in short yardage goal to go situations. It wasn't near the outright garbage some of you implied it to be. Oh, and KC could use a little improvement himself in the red zone.

You know Breed, as one of the die hard Cuz aint all Dat' posters. Im actually shocked you are not all over the concept of what a true dynamic RB would bring to this team. For a moment think of what being able to reliably expect 100+ yards and a TD or so from the ground game would mean to this team. Or the idea that we didnt have to rely on Cuz making that corner fade route work every time we got into goal to go situations.

Now Im not saying we have got to take a RB at 17, but for those that have been pounding the pavement that Cousins stats are all carb no protein, IM shocked that we then get the spin that our ground game was actually some how adequate because we had a couple of really good games, but just as many where we had zero ground game at all.

We had games of

38 total yards rushing week 17
30 total yards rushing week 15
55 yards week 1


Despite a nice yards per carry stat, its misleading. Our ground game came up short in three critical areas

1. Goal to go situations inside the 5 yard line
2. Short yardage in general, as there were entirely too many times where we had 3rd or 4th and less than 2 yards to go and the run game couldnt get it. So the coach eventually just stopped trying to get short yardage from the ground game.

3. Most critical in my opinion, in those instances where we had a lead, and just needed the offense to run off the clock, we could not rely on our ground game at all.

So you can try and spin this as another veiled attempt to defend Cousins honor. But the reality is, if we had a ground game we could rely on, it would make it alot easier to simply not need to pay Kirk more than you think he is worth. With a better than OK RB, we could roll with McCoy, save $24M of Dans money and go find our Elite QB instead of settling.

 

[Breed]

You know Breed, as one of the die hard Cuz aint all Dat' posters. Im actually shocked you are not all over the concept of what a true dynamic RB would bring to this team. For a moment think of what being able to reliably expect 100+ yards and a TD or so from the ground game would mean to this team. Or the idea that we didnt have to rely on Cuz making that corner fade route work every time we got into goal to go situations.

Now Im not saying we have got to take a RB at 17, but for those that have been pounding the pavement that Cousins stats are all carb no protein, IM shocked that we then get the spin that our ground game was actually some how adequate because we had a couple of really good games, but just as many where we had zero ground game at all.

We had games of

38 total yards rushing week 17
30 total yards rushing week 15
55 yards week 1


Despite a nice yards per carry stat, its misleading. Our ground game came up short in three critical areas

1. Goal to go situations inside the 5 yard line
2. Short yardage in general, as there were entirely too many times where we had 3rd or 4th and less than 2 yards to go and the run game couldnt get it. So the coach eventually just stopped trying to get short yardage from the ground game.

3. Most critical in my opinion, in those instances where we had a lead, and just needed the offense to run off the clock, we could not rely on our ground game at all.

So you can try and spin this as another veiled attempt to defend Cousins honor. But the reality is, if we had a ground game we could rely on, it would make it alot easier to simply not need to pay Kirk more than you think he is worth. With a better than OK RB, we could roll with McCoy, save $24M of Dans money and go find our Elite QB instead of settling.

Every game you mention above I thought McVay called a really shitty game. Where he (McVay) seemed more interested in trying to make Kirk the hero as opposed to simply winning the game.

I'd love to acquire a dynamic RB, particularly one capable of playing all three downs because he can both catch and block. I'd settle for acquiring a Gerald Riggs type short yardage/goal to go specialist. As I have said numerous times myself. The run game is unsatisfactory in goal to go and short yardage situations. I think where we differ has to do with why the run game was unsatisfactory in those situations. Where some just say, the running game sucks which I think they really means the Skins RBs suck. I don't see it all as the fault of the RBs. Play calling, penalties, blocking, shakey red zone play by Kirk were also factors.

Fuck Dan's money, but if we had a QB who was truly deserving of 24 mill per like you believe Kirk is. Or if he performed as well in the red zone and in crunch time as he did between the 20s.

And when the Skins actually employed a game plan that truly enlisted the running game. They were FAR more successful when it came to winning games.Than wjen they tried making Kirk the hero with another 400+ yd passing game that usually ended in a loss for the Skins.

 

[Sharkinva]

Every game you mention above I thought McVay called a really shitty game. Where he (McVay) seemed more interested in trying to make Kirk the hero as opposed to simply winning the game.

I'd love to acquire a dynamic RB, particularly one capable of playing all three downs because he can both catch and block. I'd settle for acquiring a Gerald Riggs type short yardage/goal to go specialist. As I have said numerous times myself. The run game is unsatisfactory in goal to go and short yardage situations. I think where we differ has to do with why the run game was unsatisfactory in those situations. Where some just say, the running game sucks which I think they really means the Skins RBs suck. I don't see it all as the fault of the RBs. Play calling, penalties, blocking, shakey red zone play by Kirk were also factors.

Fuck Dan's money, but if we had a QB who was truly deserving of 24 mill per like you believe Kirk is. Or if he performed as well in the red zone and in crunch time as he did between the 20s.

And when the Skins actually employed a game plan that truly enlisted the running game. They were FAR more successful when it came to winning games.Than wjen they tried making Kirk the hero with another 400+ yd passing game that usually ended in a loss for the Skins.

Do I think our Rbs are garbage?? Not really.

But we got 5 change of pace backs.

We got five Escort X2's When what we need is an F350 Super Duty with the black out package.

 

[Stymietee]

Every game you mention above I thought McVay called a really shitty game. Where he (McVay) seemed more interested in trying to make Kirk the hero as opposed to simply winning the game.

I'd love to acquire a dynamic RB, particularly one capable of playing all three downs because he can both catch and block. I'd settle for acquiring a Gerald Riggs type short yardage/goal to go specialist. As I have said numerous times myself. The run game is unsatisfactory in goal to go and short yardage situations. I think where we differ has to do with why the run game was unsatisfactory in those situations. Where some just say, the running game sucks which I think they really means the Skins RBs suck. I don't see it all as the fault of the RBs. Play calling, penalties, blocking, shakey red zone play by Kirk were also factors.

Fuck Dan's money, but if we had a QB who was truly deserving of 24 mill per like you believe Kirk is. Or if he performed as well in the red zone and in crunch time as he did between the 20s.

And when the Skins actually employed a game plan that truly enlisted the running game. They were FAR more successful when it came to winning games.Than wjen they tried making Kirk the hero with another 400+ yd passing game that usually ended in a loss for the Skins.

Isn't most of this on Gruden?......simply put he is NOT a commitment to the run guy. I wonder if we got a an every down back if that would change, Thoughts?

 

[Sharkinva]

Isn't most of this on Gruden?......simply put he is NOT a commitment to the run guy. I wonder if we got a an every down back if that would change, Thoughts?

My thinking, if we got an every down back, Gruden would quietly be told what I suspect he was told after we drafted Jones.... make this guy the primary back. I think Backroom politics that had alot to do with Jones getting as many carries as he did in 2015, and him being our primary goal to go RB considering that Alf was a 1000 yard back with eight rushing TDs in 2014.

If we draft a RB in the first two rounds, Gruden will be told to make it work and use him. If we sick with what we got, its the Kirk Cousins show all day, all channels.

 

[Breed]

Isn't most of this on Gruden?......simply put he is NOT a commitment to the run guy. I wonder if we got a an every down back if that would change, Thoughts?

Yes. As we heard week after week from him how he wanted to run a balanced offense and when we did. The results were pretty clear cut. Wins far outnumbered losses and we were at their best, both offensively and defensively. Yet we'd somehow revert back to hero ball with Kirk.

The thing is though, Gruden was committed to the run game in Cincy. With Cedric Benson as the feature RB the Bengals ran the ball 455 times in 2011. With BenJarvus GreenEllis as the feature RB they ran it 430 times in 2012 and 481 times in 2013. The Skins in Gruden's 3 years have run the ball 401 times in 2014, 429 times in 2015 and 379 times in 2016.

Or maybe Lewis or someone else was in Gruden's ear reminding him to keep toting the rock during his Cincy tenure.

 

[Sharkinva]

Yes. As we heard week after week from him how he wanted to run a balanced offense and when we did. The results were pretty clear cut. Wins far outnumbered losses and we were at their best, both offensively and defensively. Yet we'd somehow revert back to hero ball with Kirk.

The thing is though, Gruden was committed to the run game in Cincy. With Cedric Benson as the feature RB the Bengals ran the ball 455 times in 2011. With BenJarvus GreenEllis as the feature RB they ran it 430 times in 2012 and 481 times in 2013. The Skins in Gruden's 3 years have run the ball 401 times in 2014, 429 times in 2015 and 379 times in 2016.

Or maybe Lewis or someone else was in Gruden's ear reminding him to keep toting the rock during his Cincy tenure.

Possible he had a better quality of back in Cincy and in 2014 and 2015 in DC?? Jones fumblitis spooked him, and while Rob was solid at times.. we saw if it didnt work early he abandoned it.

Just a thought.

 

[Stymietee]

Yes. As we heard week after week from him how he wanted to run a balanced offense and when we did. The results were pretty clear cut. Wins far outnumbered losses and we were at their best, both offensively and defensively. Yet we'd somehow revert back to hero ball with Kirk.

The thing is though, Gruden was committed to the run game in Cincy. With Cedric Benson as the feature RB the Bengals ran the ball 455 times in 2011. With BenJarvus GreenEllis as the feature RB they ran it 430 times in 2012 and 481 times in 2013. The Skins in Gruden's 3 years have run the ball 401 times in 2014, 429 times in 2015 and 379 times in 2016.

Or maybe Lewis or someone else was in Gruden's ear reminding him to keep toting the rock during his Cincy tenure.

Yep....I believe that he did as instructed by Marvin Lewis, but once he became the guy calling the shots featuring the running back became much less important to him. Now it could be that his confidence in running game by committee is not there, but to me that's all the more reason to try to get that every down back. Come draft day if Kirk Cousins is still around, I think you get your wish and they won't draft one of the top guys at 17. I am now convinced that the ONLY way they go RB early is if they can sign Johnathan Hankins, and either Gerald Hodges or Zach Brown prior to the draft.

 

[Breed]

Possible he had a better quality of back in Cincy and in 2014 and 2015 in DC?? Jones fumblitis spooked him, and while Rob was solid at times.. we saw if it didnt work early he abandoned it.

Just a thought.

Yeah, when he wanted to play, Cedric Benson would be the best RB Gruden's had imo. That's another thing I'll hang on Gruden. Jones' fumbling. The calmest mothafuckers about Jones' fumbling seemed to be the coaching staff at times. And it wasn't like Jones was getting smashed amd fumbling the ball, a regular hit or a swat at the ball would do the trick just fine.

 

[Krusheasy]