Rotisserie vs H2H

[MilkSpiller22]

yeah, you're over thinking it... same in points, if you had 10 starts, and I had 6, I might look for one or two 2-start pitchers to add for the week... I see what you're saying about category punting, going up against someone else "power category", but isn't that the same (worse IMO) as what you "thought" piling up with HR guys would be like in a points?

Points leagues entail everything about baseball...and like Smitty said, not being hurt by being caught stealing, or striking out, or a pitcher going deeper into games, (your 6 inn, 0 er, 0 bb, 0 hits, 6 K's is the same as 8.2 inn, 0 er, 0 hits, 6 K's in cat leagues)... how is that good?

I don't follow this point... All leagues are affected by this, its called ERA and WHIP they are ratio stats so the more innings you pitch with the same numbers the better your ratio is...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

and yes category leagues don't use as many stats, but that is not necessarily a bad thing... CS is a very minimal stat, just like GIDP... CS, and GIDP has minimal affect towards who you draft and who you start every week, so how big of a factor is it to even mention...

And Strike outs is a more complicated argument, but it certainly is not one of the most important offensive statistics...

 

[TKOSpikes]

I don't follow this point... All leagues are affected by this, its called ERA and WHIP they are ratio stats so the more innings you pitch with the same numbers the better your ratio is...

0 hits, 0 walks, and 0 runs are all 0.00 for WHIP and ERA... the extra 2.2 innings was my point.

and yes category leagues don't use as many stats, but that is not necessarily a bad thing... CS is a very minimal stat, just like GIDP... CS, and GIDP has minimal affect towards who you draft and who you start every week, so how big of a factor is it to even mention...

Maybe not who you start each week, but certainly an effect of your players output in the week. The point being you have a chance to gain (SB) at no risk, and I'll refer again to the "same stats" look.

Player A gets 2 SB and gets caught twice in the same game.
Player B gets 2 SB on two attempts in the same game.

Why should they be equal? One player negatively effected the outcome of the game, but gets no penalty in fantasy.

GIDP is more of a fluky thing, I'll give you that, but not all points leagues go that far... but for leagues that do, maybe it makes you take in to account slower runners with high ground ball rates? ... that's strategic.

 

[Philabuster5]

Until you do each one, it's tough to describe all of the differences.
The idea of roto is awful to me, but I haven't done it in 20 years. I'd probably do it and love it.
They're all completely different games.

The argument for points is very true though: it does much better represent a player's true value.
Your 1-3 guy gets you a .333 avg
But could be:
1-3 with a CS
1-3 with a sac bunt
And if you're using std roto
1-3 with a triple and a BB

The only argument I see against points is that the best team doesn't always win. But I do like that SP usually wins once playoffs start. Seems like a pretty good way for it to work.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

0 hits, 0 walks, and 0 runs are all 0.00 for WHIP and ERA... the extra 2.2 innings was my point.



Maybe not who you start each week, but certainly an effect of your players output in the week. The point being you have a chance to gain (SB) at no risk, and I'll refer again to the "same stats" look.

Player A gets 2 SB and gets caught twice in the same game.
Player B gets 2 SB on two attempts in the same game.

Why should they be equal? One player negatively effected the outcome of the game, but gets no penalty in fantasy.

GIDP is more of a fluky thing, I'll give you that, but not all points leagues go that far... but for leagues that do, maybe it makes you take in to account slower runners with high ground ball rates? ... that's strategic.

again, the extra 2.2 innings helps your WHIP and ERA assuming you have other pitchers who have also pitched... Does giving one player more value change the same value given to the overall team??

I just don't see how more accurately valuating one player matters in the big scheme of things... Because we are talking about such minimal affected stats...

But you are right I NEED to play in a Points league Next year... I want that spot back philabuster!!!

 

[Reverend Jim]

My favorite format would be H2H category. I'm not gonna knock H2H points, but I do have one problem with roto and that was stated in the beginning. Come the all-star break you know who the pretenders and defenders are and those 3-4 teams down the bottom, they usually turn their attention to football (or something other than baseball). They either take a set it and forget it approach to their team or neglect it all together.

There are categories that these teams can affect and by abandoning their team (or even by not even trying to improve it), they are giving away points to teams that should not be getting them. Not only that, it's impossible to make any kind of trades with dead teams and there is little incentive for these teams to want to trade.

For me, it is Roto above all else. In fact, I love Roto, and in leagues with daily changes. The reason I like it is because it is both difficult and time consuming, and, with the daily changes, it rewards people that are more tuned into to the day to day doings of MLB, leaving those who snooze, to lose.

The league I was in with you last year Big D is a perfect example. The bottom 2 teams came up almost 300 innings short and the bottom 3 of the bottom 4 were 5+ (and some positions 10+) games short of the maximum. They didn't make (or barely made) roster changes and f/a pickups were non existent.
Leaving those who snooze to lose doesn't make the top teams better, it makes the league weaker.

Now you said you like roto because it is time consuming and with daily moves, it rewards people who are more tuned into the day to day doings. H2H category with daily moves does that exact same thing. The big difference is you have winners every week. Since the bottom teams will be in things longer your league will be active longer into the season forcing the top teams to stay on their toes. How many players were their on waivers last year during the last two months in BBB 3 that had no business being on waivers. Those bottom teams could have made good use of them if they had a reason to play.

If you can get 10-12 guys to commit to a season and pay attention for all 6 months roto can be fun. Problem is that unless you are in one of these committed leagues you're gonna have to deal with those dead teams at the bottom. You don't have this problem in H2H (at least for the most part). Granted the best team doesn't always win in H2H, but like someone started earlier, the best teams don't always win in baseball either. In baseball it comes down to who is the hottest during that series. You can build a monster team but if it goes cold during that week, you're not gonna win (just like in baseball).

I don't hate Roto, but unless you get an entire league to commit, it can get old fast. I'd rather lose against 11 other competitive owners in H2H than win in Roto because the bottom half of the league took off to play football and gave me free reign over the waiver wire.

I'm Jim Finch....and I approve the message

 

[obxyankeefan]

Until you do each one, it's tough to describe all of the differences.
The idea of roto is awful to me, but I haven't done it in 20 years. I'd probably do it and love it.
They're all completely different games.

The argument for points is very true though: it does much better represent a player's true value.
Your 1-3 guy gets you a .333 avg
But could be:
1-3 with a CS
1-3 with a sac bunt
And if you're using std roto
1-3 with a triple and a BB

The only argument I see against points is that the best team doesn't always win. But I do like that SP usually wins once playoffs start. Seems like a pretty good way for it to work.

if not set up right a H2H points league can be manipulated.

Last year I was in one that had no Max starts each week. I made a starting team for my hitters and used all my bench as extra starters. I went 20-3 and won the playoffs, but felt like I was cheating.

I am in another league that has a 13 start limit. But as long as you don't reach the limit before Sunday, you can go over by how many starters you have going on Sunday. This league becomes make between 9-12 starts on the first six days, then who can grab the five best pitchers off the waiver wire for Sunday wins.


I voted for H2H Roto, because of these style league's. I like H2H points, but feel it is too easy to manipulate.

 

[BigDDude]

My favorite format would be H2H category. I'm not gonna knock H2H points, but I do have one problem with roto and that was stated in the beginning. Come the all-star break you know who the pretenders and defenders are and those 3-4 teams down the bottom, they usually turn their attention to football (or something other than baseball). They either take a set it and forget it approach to their team or neglect it all together.

There are categories that these teams can affect and by abandoning their team (or even by not even trying to improve it), they are giving away points to teams that should not be getting them. Not only that, it's impossible to make any kind of trades with dead teams and there is little incentive for these teams to want to trade.



The league I was in with you last year Big D is a perfect example. The bottom 2 teams came up almost 300 innings short and the bottom 3 of the bottom 4 were 5+ (and some positions 10+) games short of the maximum. They didn't make (or barely made) roster changes and f/a pickups were non existent.
Leaving those who snooze to lose doesn't make the top teams better, it makes the league weaker.

Now you said you like roto because it is time consuming and with daily moves, it rewards people who are more tuned into the day to day doings. H2H category with daily moves does that exact same thing. The big difference is you have winners every week. Since the bottom teams will be in things longer your league will be active longer into the season forcing the top teams to stay on their toes. How many players were their on waivers last year during the last two months in BBB 3 that had no business being on waivers. Those bottom teams could have made good use of them if they had a reason to play.

If you can get 10-12 guys to commit to a season and pay attention for all 6 months roto can be fun. Problem is that unless you are in one of these committed leagues you're gonna have to deal with those dead teams at the bottom. You don't have this problem in H2H (at least for the most part). Granted the best team doesn't always win in H2H, but like someone started earlier, the best teams don't always win in baseball either. In baseball it comes down to who is the hottest during that series. You can build a monster team but if it goes cold during that week, you're not gonna win (just like in baseball).

I don't hate Roto, but unless you get an entire league to commit, it can get old fast. I'd rather lose against 11 other competitive owners in H2H than win in Roto because the bottom half of the league took off to play football and gave me free reign over the waiver wire.

I'm Jim Finch....and I approve the message

And many folks feel as you do Jim, to be sure. And, to your main point, what can I say? I get assurances from guys that they will be active all year before I let them join. That some people end up not honoring their word, well, that is on them more than anything. And, I guess my thinking there allows me to still enjoy doing well in these leagues.

Maybe this has though more to do with me being an old dog, and, that anything other than Roto to me is still a bit of a "new trick?"

 

[broncosmitty]

if not set up right a H2H points league can be manipulated.

Last year I was in one that had no Max starts each week. I made a starting team for my hitters and used all my bench as extra starters. I went 20-3 and won the playoffs, but felt like I was cheating.

I am in another league that has a 13 start limit. But as long as you don't reach the limit before Sunday, you can go over by how many starters you have going on Sunday. This league becomes make between 9-12 starts on the first six days, then who can grab the five best pitchers off the waiver wire for Sunday wins.


I voted for H2H Roto, because of these style league's. I like H2H points, but feel it is too easy to manipulate.

We really need to add teams next season. (And implement a weekly add/drop limit)The two other ESpN leagues Im in dont have starting pitching lying around in the FA pool like that.

 

[Reverend Jim]

Maybe this has though more to do with me being an old dog, and, that anything other than Roto to me is still a bit of a "new trick?"

Old dogs can learn new tricks, you're in the MBBRL after years of doing roto.

We have weekly lineups here, but imagine what you would do if you had daily moves in this league. All the hard work of a roto league but with weekly matchups.

 

[BigDDude]

Old dogs can learn new tricks, you're in the MBBRL after years of doing roto.

We have weekly lineups here, but imagine what you would do if you had daily moves in this league. All the hard work of a roto league but with weekly matchups.

I guess........


Maybe if I actually have a good showing this year, my feelings may start to change.

Maybe.....

 

[TKOSpikes]

Last year I was in one that had no Max starts each week. I made a starting team for my hitters and used all my bench as extra starters. I went 20-3 and won the playoffs, but felt like I was cheating.

I am in another league that has a 13 start limit. But as long as you don't reach the limit before Sunday, you can go over by how many starters you have going on Sunday. This league becomes make between 9-12 starts on the first six days, then who can grab the five best pitchers off the waiver wire for Sunday wins.

yeah, that's pretty stupid... not sure I'd participate in such leagues, rules and regulations and limitations would have to all be laid out and followed.... also, I'm a firm believer in weekly lineup leagues, especially when it comes to points leagues.

 

[BigDDude]

yeah, that's pretty stupid... not sure I'd participate in such leagues, rules and regulations and limitations would have to all be laid out and followed.... also, I'm a firm believer in weekly lineup leagues, especially when it comes to points leagues.

I guess you don't mind or get frustrated when a player you have gets hurt, or worse, just announced as hurt, on Mondays then?

You know, creating a gaping hole of nothing where counting stats should be.

That just KILLS ME.

 

[TKOSpikes]

Yeah, that can suck... but I can deal with it with all the advantages and strategies it comes along with...

 

[molsaniceman]

Until you do each one, it's tough to describe all of the differences.
The idea of roto is awful to me, but I haven't done it in 20 years. I'd probably do it and love it.
They're all completely different games.

The argument for points is very true though: it does much better represent a player's true value.
Your 1-3 guy gets you a .333 avg
But could be:
1-3 with a CS
1-3 with a sac bunt
And if you're using std roto
1-3 with a triple and a BB

The only argument I see against points is that the best team doesn't always win

Thats true in all H2H formats Its all about who was better that week Roto is only format that the best team wins cause its what u do for the year personally i like all formats each has its own challenge

 

[Chef99]

Here's the biggest thing I don't like about Roto: No interaction between owners. Kinda hard to find anything to talk about, really.