Redskins' Kirk Cousins: Still far apart on extension terms

[skinsdad62]

round and round we go

 

[skinsdad62]

In FA presumably. Which I might add has been very successful for many teams. Should you blindly throw money around? No. But teams that are afraid of FA are missing out.

I guess Ill just ask this. If we had Joe Flacco or Alex Smith right now on the tag (exact same situation as Cousins lets say). What would you want us to do?

Im not implying anything.

keep flacco dump smith of course i believe KC is better then both

 

[Sharkinva]

In FA presumably. Which I might add has been very successful for many teams. Should you blindly throw money around? No. But teams that are afraid of FA are missing out.

I guess Ill just ask this. If we had Joe Flacco or Alex Smith right now on the tag (exact same situation as Cousins lets say). What would you want us to do?

Im not implying anything.

If I had a QB coming off of two of the best seasons this team has seen in 20 years minus the fluke year, And said named QB was 29, yes I would resign them no questions asked. So yes if Smith were Cousins, yes I would resign him. If Flacco were in this situation, I would resign him.

But Flacco is going to be 33 this year, and Smith 34... so its not the same situation. But if push came to shove, I would take either of them over the hype that we can instantly find some one better in the next overhyped group of rookie QBs.

 

[ehb5]

If I had a QB coming off of two of the best seasons this team has seen in 20 years minus the fluke year, And said named QB was 29, yes I would resign them no questions asked. So yes if Smith were Cousins, yes I would resign him. If Flacco were in this situation, I would resign him.

But Flacco is going to be 33 this year, and Smith 34... so its not the same situation. But if push came to shove, I would take either of them over the hype that we can instantly find some one better in the next overhyped group of rookie QBs.

Lol you know what I meant.

I wouldnt touch resigning either.

 

[Sharkinva]

Lol you know what I meant.

I wouldnt touch resigning either.

So wait, you wouldnt touch either of two QBs that have 21 playoffs games AND a super bowl between them. But you would leave your team in a position to at best draft a QB in the top five without trading up, or at worst pull another bone headed trade in the quest for an elite QB??

 

[ehb5]

So wait, you wouldnt touch either of two QBs that have 21 playoffs games AND a super bowl between them. But you would leave your team in a position to at best draft a QB in the top five without trading up, or at worst pull another bone headed trade in the quest for an elite QB??

Based on what I assume the market would make them cost yea. Maybe I'm overestimating how much they'd sign for but I doubt it.

 

[Sharkinva]

Based on what I assume the market would make them cost yea. Maybe I'm overestimating how much they'd sign for but I doubt it.

And if you had an option that was better than the odds in roulette, I would probably agree with you. But what we are talking about here is...

We should probably not resign a solid QB who is apparently still improving so that we can save cap space (that by the way we are going to have to spend any way due to the 90% rule).

Now the backup plan is to draft a rookie in the most overhyped draft class since 2012. And HOPE we manage to not screw it up. Also hoping that we finish poorly enough so that we dont need to trade up just for a shot at one of these wonderkids??

 

[ehb5]

And if you had an option that was better than the odds in roulette, I would probably agree with you. But what we are talking about here is...

We should probably not resign a solid QB who is apparently still improving so that we can save cap space (that by the way we are going to have to spend any way due to the 90% rule).

Now the backup plan is to draft a rookie in the most overhyped draft class since 2012. And HOPE we manage to not screw it up. Also hoping that we finish poorly enough so that we dont need to trade up just for a shot at one of these wonderkids??

I think the odds are definitely good enough to justify walking away from flacco and Smith. In fact I think they make that the only reasonable option but I know plenty of poeple would disagree with that.

As for the rest of your post...ok? Are you back to kirk here? I'm not sure what you're arguing.

 

[j_y19]

GK... the one negative is this. Suppose Kirk stays about where he has been the past two years?? Now many have made it clear they dont think thats good enough. But if you have a QB who again passes for 4500 yards, and 25 or more TDs, but the team finishes 8-8...

It does take you out of the market to say, try and trade up for one of these ubber stud rookie QBs. So if we sign Kirk long term, the only way we make the move for one of these top rookie QBs is

1. The team sucked AND Kirk sucked
2. One of these Ubber Studs has warts and slides to 17-25 which is where I expect us to be picking in the 2018 draft.

Yet they didnt. That is the problem.

Instead they paid mediocre at best QBs a lot of money instead of using that money elsewhere.

We have a winner! They didn't do it, that is correct. The next logical question is Why? Well, for the same reason that some on here are advocating we keep KC. Because hoping to find something better in the draft is a extreme long shot. That and they know that Flacco is capable enough to lead a team to the SB and win it. Even though you might think he is mediocre, with the right team around him, we can take them to the SB. There are about 25 starting QBs in the NFL right now that cannot do that. There are also about 95% of QBs coming into the league next year (and the year after, etc) that will also not be able to do it.

IMO KC is every bit as capable as Flacco today, with a higher ceiling. He is capable of leading an offense to SB caliber levels. But he will need support. Which is why some are advocating not jumping into that QB draft russian roulette game that will cost us most of our key draft picks for the next few years, but instead using those picks to shore up the real weaknesses on this team. Our offense is not one of them.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I think the odds are definitely good enough to justify walking away from flacco and Smith. In fact I think they make that the only reasonable option but I know plenty of poeple would disagree with that.

As for the rest of your post...ok? Are you back to kirk here? I'm not sure what you're arguing.

Fair enough. BTW - if folks want to view Smith as a not that great of a QB (which I would agree w/ for the most part) then this kind of invalidates SM's recent take that Cousins has hit his ceiling. SM was one of the main reasons why the 49ers selected Smith instead of Rodgers. I am a big fan of SM, but he has always had a reputation of not being that great of an evaluator of QBs. Some of the Cousins haters here used that quote from SM to justify their take on Kirk which I thought was BS. None of us really know how Cousins will progress in the years ahead & certainly has the capability to get better.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

If Kirk has reached his ceiling it's a pretty high damned ceiling, a level Smith never reached. Flacco of course is an interesting case study. Like Eli he's just not that great but their performances in the playoffs were huge and the reason their teams won rings.

 

[Ruzious]

Just to be clear with the folks in charge of labelling... If someone says Cousins is a slightly better than average NFL starting QB that shouldn't be paid around 25 million a year, does that mean he's a Cousins hater?

 

[Ruzious]

I don't guess its so much the money .. more just the principal of it. I get it, the market for good QBs is huge wrt $$$, but no QB = no chance for success. He (and his agent) are using this situation as leverage to possibly scoop up the biggest payday in NFL history. I've said it before... short of a land breaking contract, I don't see him signing before 7/15. I honestly don't think he wants to sign. I think he wants to play another year on the tag, hedge his bets, and stand in line for a RIDICULOUS payday next year with the team of his choice. There is some ego involved here on BOTH sides.

Has his camp counter offered?? Has there been anything reported. What he is looking for...THAT is what inquiring minds want to know..

Think of it this way - Why should he accept a pay cut from what he's guaranteed this year? If you're a responsible agent, you tell the Skins, that's the starting point for negotiations. That's Negotiating 101, imo.

 

[ehb5]

We have a winner! They didn't do it, that is correct. The next logical question is Why? Well, for the same reason that some on here are advocating we keep KC. Because hoping to find something better in the draft is a extreme long shot. That and they know that Flacco is capable enough to lead a team to the SB and win it. Even though you might think he is mediocre, with the right team around him, we can take them to the SB. There are about 25 starting QBs in the NFL right now that cannot do that. There are also about 95% of QBs coming into the league next year (and the year after, etc) that will also not be able to do it.

IMO KC is every bit as capable as Flacco today, with a higher ceiling. He is capable of leading an offense to SB caliber levels. But he will need support. Which is why some are advocating not jumping into that QB draft russian roulette game that will cost us most of our key draft picks for the next few years, but instead using those picks to shore up the real weaknesses on this team. Our offense is not one of them.

I'm not sure I buy this at all. For one you can use they hey they did it argument to justify just about anything you want. You could say hey the Eagles traded a boat load of picks to move and take a QB so that must be smart. And so on and so forth. The move still needs to be justified. Plenty of teams do plenty of stupid things for stupid reasons.

Also Flacco I think is a weird case as a SB winner. For one I think he's played much worse recently than he was playing earlier in his career. And 2 - even then it still required a completely uncharacteristic hot streak of epic proportions to actually win a SB. So yes obviously Flacco has won a SB. But I don't think we should count him among the QBs who can moving forward. Also - I'm very confused by you saying 25 NFL starting QBs cant win a Super Bowl but Flacco can. Who are these 7 that can and why is Flacco on that list (while some good QBs are not)?

As for your last paragraph I pretty much agree. I think cousins is better than flacco with a higher ceiling. Plus he's younger. Our offense has been very good recently so I think that's more than fair to say he can lead an offense to SB levels. Maybe things would grind down in the playoffs against stiffer competition but we can't really know that. I do agree he probably needs support. Thankfully we were able to replace DJAX and Garcon with Pryor and Doctson so the offense should keep humming. Right now we have a good OLINE and WR/TE group so things should be fine. If that falls apart I'm not sure what would happen but hopefully we won't need to find out.

 

[ehb5]

Fair enough. BTW - if folks want to view Smith as a not that great of a QB (which I would agree w/ for the most part) then this kind of invalidates SM's recent take that Cousins has hit his ceiling. SM was one of the main reasons why the 49ers selected Smith instead of Rodgers. I am a big fan of SM, but he has always had a reputation of not being that great of an evaluator of QBs. Some of the Cousins haters here used that quote from SM to justify their take on Kirk which I thought was BS. None of us really know how Cousins will progress in the years ahead & certainly has the capability to get better.

I'm starting to think SM is a bit overrated as a talent evaluator. Not as any particular problem with him as much as I don't think anybody is really that good at it. So him being wrong on Smith makes sense to me. And I do think he was wrong. Even with this late career success I think Smith is a bad QB. Maybe slightly below average but he just has no upside. I can't imagine being content with him at QB.

As for the Cousins quote. It's interesting he said that but I agree I don't think it means much. Unless he thinks Cousins is just a bad QB I'm not sure why he would be certain he's at his ceiling.

 

[skinsdad62]

Just to be clear with the folks in charge of labelling... If someone says Cousins is a slightly better than average NFL starting QB that shouldn't be paid around 25 million a year, does that mean he's a Cousins hater?

Yes

 

[skinsdad62]

Why would you walk away from a veteran leader with a younger more athletic team on the verge f becoming a perennial contender ? To me that is plain foolish . I totally beluevevKC can get us to a Super Bowl with a decent defense .

 

[j_y19]

I'm not sure I buy this at all. For one you can use they hey they did it argument to justify just about anything you want. You could say hey the Eagles traded a boat load of picks to move and take a QB so that must be smart. And so on and so forth. The move still needs to be justified. Plenty of teams do plenty of stupid things for stupid reasons.

Also Flacco I think is a weird case as a SB winner. For one I think he's played much worse recently than he was playing earlier in his career. And 2 - even then it still required a completely uncharacteristic hot streak of epic proportions to actually win a SB. So yes obviously Flacco has won a SB. But I don't think we should count him among the QBs who can moving forward. Also - I'm very confused by you saying 25 NFL starting QBs cant win a Super Bowl but Flacco can. Who are these 7 that can and why is Flacco on that list (while some good QBs are not)?

As for your last paragraph I pretty much agree. I think cousins is better than flacco with a higher ceiling. Plus he's younger. Our offense has been very good recently so I think that's more than fair to say he can lead an offense to SB levels. Maybe things would grind down in the playoffs against stiffer competition but we can't really know that. I do agree he probably needs support. Thankfully we were able to replace DJAX and Garcon with Pryor and Doctson so the offense should keep humming. Right now we have a good OLINE and WR/TE group so things should be fine. If that falls apart I'm not sure what would happen but hopefully we won't need to find out.

I guess my point was that a franchise can win a SB with a Flacco caliber QB and KC is that caliber, if not above. He will require support, but all QBs do. There is not one QB that can carry a team by himself, as I have seen some say about Brady, rogers, and one or two others. They are elite QBs, but they dont play defense and they dont play STs. So if we have a QB that can do they job, why let him leave over a few dollars of some billionaire's money or the perception that he will be paid among the highest in the league for a short period of time? EHB, I'm not implying you specifically are taking this position, because I have seen that you are in support of retaining him. But there are others posting regularly that will let him walk because of these reasons. I can understand if they just didn't think KC was good enough. While I would disagree, that is a legit reason to let him leave. But over money, SMH.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I'm starting to think SM is a bit overrated as a talent evaluator. Not as any particular problem with him as much as I don't think anybody is really that good at it. So him being wrong on Smith makes sense to me. And I do think he was wrong. Even with this late career success I think Smith is a bad QB. Maybe slightly below average but he just has no upside. I can't imagine being content with him at QB.

As for the Cousins quote. It's interesting he said that but I agree I don't think it means much. Unless he thinks Cousins is just a bad QB I'm not sure why he would be certain he's at his ceiling.

They needed a QB and the decision that needed to be made was will they take Alex Smith or Aaron Rodgers. So yeah I'd say he was wrong. Forget Rodgers, Smith never lived up to the #1 overall pick.

 

[Ruzious]

If you guys tell me that we'll be able to re-sign Pryor and all the other good 1 year contract free agents we signed this offseason to extensions as well as re-sign our other good free agents that we need to retain - and still be able to sign Cousins to a 25 mil a year contract... then I'll sign off on an extension for Cousins.