Redskins' Kirk Cousins: Still far apart on extension terms

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

i think the deal will get done there are a bunch of paths to get the money chooseing the right path so if we do sign cuzz no more big time fa we will be dependit on the draft 100 percent we will also lose key players like sheiff t williams etc etc when there contract come up there will be neg.. so we better have a plan in place if we sign kirk for 27 trillion bubillon google dollars it takes time people

 

[Sportster 72]

Sherff is under contract for the next two years. Trent, Norman, Kerrigan and Reed are all signed through 2020. The sooner the Redskins sign Cousins the better, if they are going to sign him. The way the cap has been going a good portion of his contract would be taken up buy cap increases in two to three years.

As shark has pointed out they could sign a Glennon clone for $9 million less or as Sty has suggested. He is due $690,000 this year and then becomes a free agent. Certainly you can save some money there and you get all of his 119 passes NFL experience. You could also wait until next year and trade 3 No. 1 picks and and a No. 2 for the next great QB. I would highly advise taking another QB in the 4th round as insurance.

 

[Sleepy T]

Look at it this way. We have no other option on QB this season. Sign KC long term now and guarantee him his first 2 seasons plus his signing bonus of say 12 million for 6 years. That puts him at 60 million guaranteed.

Worst case, he doesn't play well this season, we draft a QB next draft, and we are not forced to play the rookie in 2018. He can learn from KC who we can't get rid of anyways because we guaranteed his 2018 salary. If we chose to cut KC after 2018 and play our rookie, we would only eat 8 million that could be spread over 4 years.

Ok...so give him a 6 year $24 million APY, $120 million dollar contract, with $60 million fully guaranteed? Is that what you are saying?? For a guy who hasn't proven much...hasn't won anything...a guy who we aren't fully invested in? Pay him better than anyone else who plays the position...because why? Because we have no better option? And if he sucks we let him walk in a couple years with a backpack over his shoulder with 60 million dollars in it...

That's why this is so scary. Because unfortunately that is what we are likely gonna have to do...and keep our fingers crossed.

 

[Sportster 72]

Ok...so give him a 6 year $24 million APY, $120 million dollar contract, with $60 million fully guaranteed? Is that what you are saying?? For a guy who hasn't proven much...hasn't won anything...a guy who we aren't fully invested in? Pay him better than anyone else who plays the position...because why? Because we have no better option? And if he sucks we let him walk in a couple years with a backpack over his shoulder with 60 million dollars in it...

That's why this is so scary. Because unfortunately that is what we are likely gonna have to do...and keep our fingers crossed.

Yes, based on his performance the past two years I would write the check tonight. It has been at least 30 years since a Redskin QB has performed at this level.

 

[gkekoa]

Ok...so give him a 6 year $24 million APY, $120 million dollar contract, with $60 million fully guaranteed? Is that what you are saying?? For a guy who hasn't proven much...hasn't won anything...a guy who we aren't fully invested in? Pay him better than anyone else who plays the position...because why? Because we have no better option? And if he sucks we let him walk in a couple years with a backpack over his shoulder with 60 million dollars in it...

That's why this is so scary. Because unfortunately that is what we are likely gonna have to do...and keep our fingers crossed.

He has proven he can win with one of the worst defenses in league history. He has proven he can run this system better than all other options. He has thrown for nearly 10,000 yards the last two seasons. Our offensive line is far different under KC than other QBs because he throws on time. Our OL is not like Dallas with first rounders all over. We have 2 of them and 2 3rd rounders. KC makes the player's around him better a d this will be shown this season when PG and DJ perform at a much lower level.

 

[Sharkinva]

Again...

We have already committed $43.5M in guaranteed money to Kirk. If the team finishes the way we SHOULD all be hoping, then to keep him will cost us a minimum of another $28M in guaranteed money.... So, $71.5M is the minimum we will have committed to figure out we thought he was actually worth keeping. Or $23.83M per year??

At what point does the front office and a portion of the fan base realize, the longer we sit on this, the more it costs??

And lets not even go into the cost if we have to Franchise tag him again next year instead of trans tagging him.

Oh what the hell...

If we franchise tag him again next year, his average per year cost goes up to $26.14M per year..... and all because the front office and a portion of the fan base would apparently much rather continue to chase elite.

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

i just dont belive in the Bruce and Dan are behind closed doors saying man we can not make money off of kirk we need a flashey qb moooohahahahha fuck kirk we need flash dammit ... this was what some skins fan think lol psychos lol CSI in the mean time there beloved scott mac said nothing but good things about allen and dan even said gruden has good eye for talent also

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

Again...

We have already committed $43.5M in guaranteed money to Kirk. If the team finishes the way we SHOULD all be hoping, then to keep him will cost us a minimum of another $28M in guaranteed money.... So, $71.5M is the minimum we will have committed to figure out we thought he was actually worth keeping. Or $23.83M per year??

At what point does the front office and a portion of the fan base realize, the longer we sit on this, the more it costs??

And lets not even go into the cost if we have to Franchise tag him again next year instead of trans tagging him.

Oh what the hell...

If we franchise tag him again next year, his average per year cost goes up to $26.14M per year..... and all because the front office and a portion of the fan base would apparently much rather continue to chase elite.

i trust your figures 100 percent your very good what is your back ground you can im me if you want

 

[Sharkinva]

i trust your figures 100 percent your very good what is your back ground you can im me if you want

These days, IT Support Tech. Prior to that, Bike Mechanic.. before that I at one point thought about law or accounting when I first got out of the Service.

The Salary Cap thing is just a hobby I took up back when Danny was spending cap dollars like a drunk kid at a strip club.

 

[Sharkinva]

i just dont belive in the Bruce and Dan are behind closed doors saying man we can not make money off of kirk we need a flashey qb moooohahahahha fuck kirk we need flash dammit ... this was what some skins fan think lol psychos lol CSI in the mean time there beloved scott mac said nothing but good things about allen and dan even said gruden has good eye for talent also

Dan likes having his toys, and Bruce likes being in charge and hates to lose. Now I dont think Bruce's issue would be a real problem except that I do think his ego is a big part of the problem here. I know every one says, Griffin is gone and we should be over it. But signing Kirk to that kind of deal would basically be the final straw in saying, Bruce and Dan really screwed up in 2012. As it took Kirk getting this team into the playoffs for some fans to even begin to admit it was a mistake, Bruce just doesnt strike me as the let bygones be bygones type.

 

[Sportster 72]

shark, you used to work on Schwin and BMX?

shark is better at the cap stuff than I am but most of it is accessible online.

 

[Sharkinva]

shark, you used to work on Schwin and BMX?

shark is better at the cap stuff than I am but most of it is accessible online.

Actually I did work on Schwinn scooters. They tried to get into the motorized market in 2007-2009, but unless you are Honda or Yamaha, the 50cc scooter market is a tough nut to crack. Suzuki and Kawasaki never even tried to get in on that game.

 

[Ruzious]

I don't understand how folks think anyone causes an NFL team to win by themselves. So when the QB and his offense leads you to a go ahead score with 1:05 left but the defense can't prevent the other offense from getting a TD or when the QB and is offense lead you to a game winning field goal but the kicker misses it is all the offenses fault? Seriously?? You can say that with a straight face?

If you're using that logic, then don't act like it's the end of the world if we don't keep Cousins. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Ruzious]

I can totally understand your sentiment Ruz. Does he have "it" or not, that remains to be seen. But again it's not about Kirk being the highest paid player in the league, that is the function of timing and nothing more and will change quickly if it happens. No it's about the Redskins and what their other options are. Again look at our history of our QBs and how that position has killed us for generations. Then look at teams like the Browns, Bears, Jags and every other loser and their struggles to find that guy and tell me what our Plan B is to get a QB that's as good or better?

The price is based not on skill alone, it's based more on the old reliable supply and demand curve you learned in Econ 101.

In the world outside of the classroom, supply and demand is going to change next year - with several legit prospects and free agents, and some will have higher upsides than Cousins - some who might be able to step in and start. Are we going to give Cousins a $125 - 150 million contract because we're so scared of losing out on a potential 9-7 season? Cousins is good, but he's not special, and that's 2 straight years he's ended playing poorly.

 

[j_y19]

In the world outside of the classroom, supply and demand is going to change next year - with several legit prospects and free agents, and some will have higher upsides than Cousins - some who might be able to step in and start. Are we going to give Cousins a $125 - 150 million contract because we're so scared of losing out on a potential 9-7 season? Cousins is good, but he's not special, and that's 2 straight years he's ended playing poorly.

Ruz, I don't think he is asking for, or will get a contract value in the $125-150M range. More Like $100M with 50-60 guaranteed. Similar to the Luck deal.

He did end up playing poorly in that Giants game. But let me ask you this. If our defense would have stopped Cincy and detroit (both games in which KC executed game winning drives only to see the defense give it up against Detroit and a missed chip shot FG against Cincy) at the end of both of those games and we ended up with a record of 10-6 and in the playoffs, would has play against the Giants be such a looming issue for you?

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Yeah I was going to say this earlier. He did kill us with the late pick against the Giants. But he has also shown in the past 2 years the ability to take the team down in the final minutes and score. Some they won, some the defense or kicker cost them but Kirk did show that ability. But again looking at the Giants and all the night games with the exception of Green Bay (an amazing performance) Kirk has now shown up when the lights are the brightest yet so I do share that concern.

Addressing the rest of Ruz's post again allowing a top 10 QB walk in hopes that you will be in the position to draft one of these hot shot college QBs, and then beating the odds and getting that guy who is actually better than what you already have, is just not the way I would approach this situation. I mean you are looking to roll a hard nine with the baby's life on the line. Not advisable.

I mean who knows what they may have to give up to move up in the draft high enough, then of course there's a better than 50/50 chance the guy turns out to be Griffin or Couch.

 

[Sharkinva]

In the world outside of the classroom, supply and demand is going to change next year - with several legit prospects and free agents, and some will have higher upsides than Cousins - some who might be able to step in and start. Are we going to give Cousins a $125 - 150 million contract because we're so scared of losing out on a potential 9-7 season? Cousins is good, but he's not special, and that's 2 straight years he's ended playing poorly.

Several legit prospects and free agent QBs will be available huh??

1. QB prospects are damn near ALWAYS over valued in the draft. Very rarely does a highly touted QB class produce the number of legit QBs as suspected. We in Washington should know this very well, as we have drafted quite a few legit QB prospects rather high, and struck out on all of them.

2. The free agent class of QBs is not overly impressive, because most are coming with limited on field experience, and we have seen how guys like Foles, Castle and Oswieler worked out.

Now is losing Kirk the end of the world?? Probably not. But cutting bait on a good QB because he just isnt special is rather short sighted considering that getting one of these SPECIAL QBs is likely going to cost more in both draft resources and time. And we were 9-7 with one of the worst defenses in the NFL. If this defense improves... you really think the team wont improve as a whole??

 

[Ruzious]

Ruz, I don't think he is asking for, or will get a contract value in the $125-150M range. More Like $100M with 50-60 guaranteed. Similar to the Luck deal.

He did end up playing poorly in that Giants game. But let me ask you this. If our defense would have stopped Cincy and detroit (both games in which KC executed game winning drives only to see the defense give it up against Detroit and a missed chip shot FG against Cincy) at the end of both of those games and we ended up with a record of 10-6 and in the playoffs, would has play against the Giants be such a looming issue for you?

I hear ya, but that's sort of implying that Cousins was the reason for all our wins. I think the elite QB's can be given that type of credit, and while there is a lot of value in Cousins being in the upper half of the NFL's starting QB's, I think he's a game manager reliant on the talent around him. Remember, we signed a lot of guys to 1 year deals, and we're going to have to re-sign those guys next year for a lot more or find more players through free agency. So signing Cousins does have an effect on who else we can get. I don't want to be in the situation Chicago's found themselves in. A few years ago they thought they had one of the better QB's in Cutler and signed him to an enormous long-term deal. And as that deal's gone on, it's looked worse every year and has been used as an excuse to not improve.

 

[Sportster 72]

If you're using that logic, then don't act like it's the end of the world if we don't keep Cousins. You can't have it both ways.

WTF are you talking about? Your post has nothing to do with what I said.

 

[Stymietee]

ok. SO what makes you think that formula has changed? Why would you expect that if we let KC walk, we won't continue that off the field winning strategy that has failed us miserably over the last 20 years?
Here we have a competent QB that has proven to be accurate and can make all the throws. He is developing into a team leader (as evidenced by comments made by his teammates, not conjecture). He fits this offense perfectly in that he is becoming proficient in prereading the defenses and knowing who to throw to resulting in a very quick delivery to playmakers. He himself is not really a playmaker in the sense of when a play breaks down, he can improvise. Probably never will be. But you know what? Neither does Brady, Brees, Ryan or a handful of other SB QBs in the last 10 years. That is not what is expected nor needed from him.
As for has he peaked or not? Who the hell knows. But if you told me that he was going to cap out as a QB that will complete close to 70% of his passes, throw for close to 5000 yds and have half as many INTs as TDs every year, I'd say we are pretty damn fortunate. Give me 2, please.

You talk about our failed strategy for acquiring Qb talent over the last 20 years, but KC represents just the opposite of that. A 4th round talent, home grown, and as he enters his prime years we deem, that being a top 10 QB with certain limitations, just isn't good enough is nothing more than a continuation of that same failed strategy. Lets let our home grown talent walk and jump back into the QB russian roulette arena where there are 8-14 teams every year willing to do desperate things to get that "next best thing", which usually turns into a bust.

I just don't get it. Again, this is not saying that you don't try and upgrade every position on the field, but you don't toss a "pretty good" talent until you have a proven better talent to replace him. And for those that say he isn't worth the money.....please stop. Its all funny money. The total contract value of any player really makes no difference. Rarely do these contracts go to full term (see Romo). What matters is the guaranteed portion and the cap hit. And here is a fact. We sign him to a LTD and his cap hit GOES DOWN this year. This is smart business. Anything else is being penny wise and pound foolish.

With the firing of SM, I fully expect that we will enter into a renewed version of the Bruce and Dan show albeit, for a while, with some ideas taken from the former GM.

No one that I've seen, has said anything close to "tossing" Kirk, but all the talk that I've participated in starts and ends with where I believe to be the likely outcome in the failed attempts to sign him. (Losing him) in that case there had better be a plan in place to replace him. I also offered that. Knowing how highly valued some here place him, I knew that they would reject that plan outright, but you know what?, I DID offer a plan.

BTW: if you don't expect Kirk in become better in manuvering himself in the pocket, or impoverization when a play breaks down, then you too agree with SM and myself that Cousins has reached his ceiling. It's certainly not a bad ceiling though, just sayin'