Game Thread: Rangers vs Pens

[element1286]

Will be an interesting offseason, lot of free agents. Hopefully they decide to let most of them walk, and move on with some younger players.

 

[3riverbabe]

I wasn't expecting to get past the Rags, but it still sucks. I also have to wonder how this series would've turned out if we'd had a healthy D & a healthy Geno.

Scuds needs to consider retirement.

Fleury played his heart out! He deserved better. See you next year!

 

[Burghfan]

Losing a bunch of 2-1 games, our offense was seriously messed up this season. Sort of glad the season is over. Just wish there was some hope to get better.

I dunno about the offense, Doob. The Pens had 36 shots on goal last night and I haven't checked, but they got a lot of pucks to Lundqvist the whole series. The problem is that nothing was going in. I don't know what they could do different, besides scoring, but the offense was doing well the whole time.

I noticed in the 2nd and 3rd periods last night the defense stopped passing the puck back and forth until they turned it over and started sending it up the ice. That helped generate some more offense, but again nothing went in except that questionable goal. My son and daughter in law were up watching the game with me and they got mad at me when I said that a goal like that is wrong. I know the league allows it and the Flyers score most of their goals that way, but its still wrong. Maybe its the old goalie in me talking, but I don't like it.

 

[evolver115]

Saw that the other day. Would like to see an age correlation against that chart. Although the Pens do have three stars that are injury prone in Malkin, Crosby, and Letang.

That last graph I posted shows what is really most important about what it takes to win a Stanley Cup. You can assemble a team of future hall-of-famers, and if they don't stay healthy, it doesn't mean a damn.

Look at this one:


Cup winners are in green since 09-10 season. Total Time Missed Impact to Team is a metric that bases a player’s value to their team on their average time on ice (ATOI) and the duration of their injury. The more a player is consistently used by their coach on the ice during each game, the higher their value to the team.

29 other NHL teams don't really even come close to equaling what has happened to the Penguins in the last six seasons. I know some people don't want to hear the injury excuse. In fact, I am sometimes one of those people. However, when you just look at raw statistics, like the above graph shows, and the previous one I posted, there really is no argument. If you can't maintain a healthy 23 man roster, you will not win in the postseason.

 

[Cyder]

PP's/Pk's don't affect possession, it's a 5v5 stat.

Put yeah, the pp is killing them. Not sure that is surprising though, since the Rangers pp is not very good, and the Pens pk is pretty good.

I wasn't referring to the possession time with the PP. As you can probably tell I'm hung up on the face off loses. I thought it took any chance they had in the cup last year.

 

[Cyder]

I dunno about the offense, Doob. The Pens had 36 shots on goal last night and I haven't checked, but they got a lot of pucks to Lundqvist the whole series. The problem is that nothing was going in. I don't know what they could do different, besides scoring, but the offense was doing well the whole time.

I noticed in the 2nd and 3rd periods last night the defense stopped passing the puck back and forth until they turned it over and started sending it up the ice. That helped generate some more offense, but again nothing went in except that questionable goal. My son and daughter in law were up watching the game with me and they got mad at me when I said that a goal like that is wrong. I know the league allows it and the Flyers score most of their goals that way, but its still wrong. Maybe its the old goalie in me talking, but I don't like it.

I thought both goalies were great. They put on a clinic

 

[thehobocop]

Rutherford needs to go IMO. I know Morehouse said today that they plan on retaining both Rutherford and Johnston, but I think that is a mistake. Rutherford's management of the cap this season was awful, there should never be a situation where the team is forced to play with 5 d men because of cap reasons, simply an unexcuseable error. Unfortuantely I don't see the situation getting much better next year either, Rutherford has already traded almost every valuable asset and there won't be cap room to sign a difference maker. Don't see how any valuable pieces can be added in the current situation. I'm not sure what the solution is to the problems that the Pens have had, but I think I can confidently say that I don't believe Rutherford has it and he should be out. Again just my opinion. Would like to hear what you guys think can be done.

 

[scoutyjones2]

I am anxious to see what comes during the offseason. More excited than I was for the playoffs!

 

[3riverbabe]

Rutherford needs to go IMO. I know Morehouse said today that they plan on retaining both Rutherford and Johnston, but I think that is a mistake. Rutherford's management of the cap this season was awful, there should never be a situation where the team is forced to play with 5 d men because of cap reasons, simply an unexcuseable error. Unfortuantely I don't see the situation getting much better next year either, Rutherford has already traded almost every valuable asset and there won't be cap room to sign a difference maker. Don't see how any valuable pieces can be added in the current situation. I'm not sure what the solution is to the problems that the Pens have had, but I think I can confidently say that I don't believe Rutherford has it and he should be out. Again just my opinion. Would like to hear what you guys think can be done.

I completely agree. He was run out of Carolina on a rail! We should've canned him & hired Chiarelli, but it's too late for that.

 

[Burghfan]

Rutherford needs to go IMO. I know Morehouse said today that they plan on retaining both Rutherford and Johnston, but I think that is a mistake. Rutherford's management of the cap this season was awful, there should never be a situation where the team is forced to play with 5 d men because of cap reasons, simply an unexcuseable error. Unfortuantely I don't see the situation getting much better next year either, Rutherford has already traded almost every valuable asset and there won't be cap room to sign a difference maker. Don't see how any valuable pieces can be added in the current situation. I'm not sure what the solution is to the problems that the Pens have had, but I think I can confidently say that I don't believe Rutherford has it and he should be out. Again just my opinion. Would like to hear what you guys think can be done.

I don't agree with that. I mean he was trying to manage after losing Maatta, Letang and Pouliot. You have to play the hand you're dealt and I don't see what more he could have done.

I know what you're saying, they fired him in Carolina and I wondered why on earth would you want him in Pittsburgh. I don't think they could get anyone else, because the Pens made it clear that this was only going to be a short term gig, they had someone they wanted to promote inside the organization after he got a couple years experience. I think Rutherford made some good free agent signings and made some good trades. The only trade I totally disagree with is Despres for Lovejoy straight up. That was horrendous. (In case you didn't notice Lovejoy was out there for both OT goals.

Cole is turning out to be a bad pick up too. He's getting burned so much on defense they should change his name to Coal.

 

[thehobocop]

I don't agree with that. I mean he was trying to manage after losing Maatta, Letang and Pouliot. You have to play the hand you're dealt and I don't see what more he could have done.

I know what you're saying, they fired him in Carolina and I wondered why on earth would you want him in Pittsburgh. I don't think they could get anyone else, because the Pens made it clear that this was only going to be a short term gig, they had someone they wanted to promote inside the organization after he got a couple years experience. I think Rutherford made some good free agent signings and made some good trades. The only trade I totally disagree with is Despres for Lovejoy straight up. That was horrendous. (In case you didn't notice Lovejoy was out there for both OT goals.

Cole is turning out to be a bad pick up too. He's getting burned so much on defense they should change his name to Coal.

I don't think he should get a pass on the 5 d men thing. I understand that there were injuries, but there were just as many injuries last year on the blue line and Shero never forced the team to go with 5 d men. Also, I heard that when negotations were going on with Nashville for the Neal trade that he was explicitly told not to get Spaling becuase of cap reasons, and apparently he didn't care. I will give him some credit though, he has made a few decent trades. I love the addition of Hornqvist and I think he did a good job with that trade. He has also made some very questionable trades though, personally I would rather have the first round pick this year instead of Perron, he paid a very high price for Winnik and the Lovejoy for Despres swap was straight up awful. I'm not sure what free agents signings you're considering as good, he made a few signings that haven't been awful but I wouldn't consider anyone he has signed to be a massive success.

Also, not sure I agree with your assesment of Cole. I think he's played fairly well during his time with the Pens. I don't think I would call him a bad pickup, especially for the price it took to acquire him.

Overall, I can see what you're saying, but I still think we need a plan to retool and become legit contenders and I still believe that he doesn't have that plan. Personally, I would like to see Billy Guerin promoted to GM but that's just my opinion

 

[Burghfan]

Overall, I can see what you're saying, but I still think we need a plan to retool and become legit contenders and I still believe that he doesn't have that plan. Personally, I would like to see Billy Guerin promoted to GM but that's just my opinion

I'd like to see Billy G up there too, but I don't know how his administrative skills might be. I think they are grooming Botterill who is an Assistant GM to take over for Rutherford after next year.

 

[scoutyjones2]

Cole and Lovejoy are meh...nothing they should have traded for...

 

[3riverbabe]

Any news on Geno's injury?

 

[Toddyd77]

There are a lot of bad trades in hindsight. If Perron stayed remotely on the pace he was in the month or so after we got him we'd all be happy with that trade like were in January. Everyone in the organization loved Ben Lovejoy and wanted him back.
I don't really think it's Rutherford per say that failed us. He definitely could have done better and listened to Botterill when it came to cap issues but he was told to win now just like the previous GM. Also Morehouse had to approve these deals as he wasn't going to let a GM have the independence that Shero had. I blame Morehouse and ownership for constantly pushing for win now at all costs instead of taking a year to reload and be better the next. Crosby, Malkin and Fleury deserve a little better than this and of anyone Lemieux should know the frustration of having to play with subpar linemates as he did it during his early years.

Early exit shows change is needed.

 

[element1286]

Cole is an upgrade over Botz easily.

Lovejoy was much worse than I thought he would be, he is a downgrade now and for the future, worst trade by far.

I'm still hopeful for the future, IMO, the biggest problem with this team was the old legs they continued to rely on. You look at a guy like Doumolin who is a pretty average prospect, and he was one of the top 3 defensemen, performance wise, during the Rangers series. Probably the best skating defensemen on the team at that point.

Shed the spare parts and old bodies, Comeau, Downie, Winnik, Adams, Ehrhoff, and Martin.

 

[element1286]

I blame Morehouse for even existing, the guy should have no say in anything. His last job was head of a political campaign. If anything, Rutherford should have Morehouse's job, and Botteril should be the GM.

I don't get the love for Billy Guerin as GM, to me that is the same as Edzo as coach. No front office experience at all.

 

[scoutyjones2]

Cole is an upgrade over Botz easily.

Lovejoy was much worse than I thought he would be, he is a downgrade now and for the future, worst trade by far.

I'm still hopeful for the future, IMO, the biggest problem with this team was the old legs they continued to rely on. You look at a guy like Doumolin who is a pretty average prospect, and he was one of the top 3 defensemen, performance wise, during the Rangers series. Probably the best skating defensemen on the team at that point.

Shed the spare parts and old bodies, Comeau, Downie, Winnik, Adams, Ehrhoff, and Martin.

I am on board with this! Get us a healthy Duper!

 

[Toddyd77]

I blame Morehouse for even existing, the guy should have no say in anything. His last job was head of a political campaign. If anything, Rutherford should have Morehouse's job, and Botteril should be the GM.

I don't get the love for Billy Guerin as GM, to me that is the same as Edzo as coach. No front office experience at all.

I don't know where the Billy G for GM hype came from either. I like Billy G being in the Pens organization but I don't think he has the experience yet to be a GM.

 

[thehobocop]

I think front office experience is overrated. If you know hockey, you know hockey and I think Billy G does. Look at Yzerman in Tampa, he didn't have much if any front office expeience and he's done a pretty good job so far I'd say.