Possible coaching changes

[LHG]

Matt Herges Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Herges is a Dodgers guy, been with their organization since 2011. Stuck with the new ownership turnover, which is always a good sign.

He spent the last two seasons as the pitching coach in AAA.

He has great respect as a person, from what I've seen. He also bring analytical background, or at least an understanding of it and willingness to buy into it.

Sounds like the Dodgers were looking at him as a future pitching coach on their ML staff.

I'd give this a thumbs up. One thing is odd though. You would think a pitching coach would be hired first so they could have input on the bullpen coach. Maybe the Giants already have someone and have yet to announce it, maybe because they're currently in the World Series?

Either that, or Herges was too good to pass up.

I can overlook the career Dodger thing since he did pitch for the Giants for the equivalent of two seasons (but he wasn't very good after that first half season, but I digress). Hey, his picture on BR even has him in a Giants' hat (wonder if they did that after the announcement of his signing for the BP spot).

Who do you imagine the Giants are getting for pitching coach?

 

[LHG]

BamBam officially to the bench.
Wotus officially to 3rd.
Nevin officially fired.

Matt Herges hired as BP coach.

How do you suppose the phone call between the Tigers' GM and Giants' GM went regarding Nevin's candidacy for the Tigers' manager spot?

Tigers' GM: "Evans! Hey this is Al over in Detroit. We are looking at your boy Nevin to fill our manager's vacancy. What can you tell me about him?"

Giants' GM: "Al baby! Good to hear from you. Hey, we are very enthusiastic about Nevin leaving us, er, becoming your manager. He'd be a great fit. We fully support him going away, I mean, going over to Detroit. You'd love him. Take him, please!"

Tigers' GM and Giants' GM exchange small talk and hang up. Then Tigers' GM thinks to himself "Hmm, Bobby is a little too excited to let him go. I know, let's get Ron Gardenhire instead!"

 

[calsnowskier]

Murph and Mac just made one of those horrible troll comments radio personalities are want to do...

Since Chili Davis and Jim Hickey both ended up going elsewhere, obviously the Giants are now persona non grata in the minds of all potential coaches.

 

[SFGRTB]

I can overlook the career Dodger thing since he did pitch for the Giants for the equivalent of two seasons (but he wasn't very good after that first half season, but I digress). Hey, his picture on BR even has him in a Giants' hat (wonder if they did that after the announcement of his signing for the BP spot).

Who do you imagine the Giants are getting for pitching coach?

I couldn't even begin to say outside of the rumors, to be honest. I wanted them to hire the Indian's pitching coach though.

 

[SFGRTB]

Murph and Mac just made one of those horrible troll comments radio personalities are want to do...

Since Chili Davis and Jim Hickey both ended up going elsewhere, obviously the Giants are now persona non grata in the minds of all potential coaches.

Just stirring the pot.

 

[LHG]

Murph and Mac just made one of those horrible troll comments radio personalities are want to do...

Since Chili Davis and Jim Hickey both ended up going elsewhere, obviously the Giants are now persona non grata in the minds of all potential coaches.

When there isn't anything else to talk about to get listeners, you have to create something.

 

[SF11704]

I'm still confused by all the shuffling. Do they really think that changing the entire coaching staff will reverse what this team has done in the last year and a half. We were the worst team in baseball during this time. We had the worst offense in baseball. Without changing anything in the talent pool do we really expect anything different?

I'm also not sure what the philosophy of management is. Last year was frustrating and also very disappointing (for me). As we entered the ASB there was talk of playing the kids etc etc etc. So we go out and resign Pablo. Then we proceed to play him as much as humanly possible. I still don't understand that. Is he part of our 2018 plans?

I agree with quite a bit of what Cal stated. Not many managers really have an impact on a total team performance. A team still needs talent. A good manager can leverage that talent. I'm also a believer that not all managers work well in all situations. IMHO Bochy is very good with a skilled and talented veteran team. Give him a team of vets that are under performing and you get what we had the last year and a half. It's not his fault but he's also not going to resolve the issue either. It's also my humble opinion that he would be just as bad with a ton of youth that was going through a rebuilding phase (two years or more). I just don't think all managers can work in all situations. I still believe that we will need to rebuild.

Living in NY I can see some of the rationale with the Joe Girardi situation. He is great with young players. He seems to have the ability to integrate them into the fabric of the team. As good as he is with kids ... they are now past that stage and want a change.

The game has also changed over the past two years. Most playoff teams have 4-6 players with 20 plus HRs. Some even a few with 30 plus. This changes the game quite a bit. It really makes a pitcher stress. One bad pitch almost anywhere in the line up can cost you. Although they didn't lose ... Verlander gives up 2 hits and he's on the losing side entering the 8th inning. The Stros have the offense to comeback .... I don't think we do. At least not as our team is currently structured.

Changing our coaching staff without an associated investment in new talent ... I still believe will leave us in the 85+ loss area ...

 

[calsnowskier]

One thing I don’t get about everyone complaining about these coaching changes is that they tend to asssume that the coaching changes are the ONLY changes that will occur.

Guys, the World Series isn’t over yet. There is no reason to believe that there will not be talent changes as well (outside of the salary handcuffs that restrict the team right now). Wait a month or two before using that argument...


Edit: this isn’t really directed at anyone here. I just hear this argument a lot on radio and irl. The complainers typically think every minor change is intended to be the magic bullet instead of just a piece of the bigger puzzle.

 

[SF11704]

While I agree with the idea of wait and see .... I (personally) feel that the the Giants have not committed to a rebuild. What I feel they will commit to is some sort of a patchwork upgrade to make them as competitive as possible. Almost the same approach they took during the Bonds era. I also know that a typical response is to believe in management. They know what they are doing. As a fan I have an emotional investment. As management and ownership they have a financial investment. They want and need to make a return on their investment. A rebuild process is long and also dangerous. How many fans are really willing to sit back for a few years and watch their team try and 'find' themselves. A very tough choice for management.

Since the 2016 ASB this team has gone 98-140. The question really is ..... can they 'fix' something as wrong as this ... or do they in fact have a core of players to expand on. I don't see a solid core. I love Buster .... but he is a 30 year old catcher with 7 years of mileage. As good as Bum is .... what do we have after him?

A very interesting year awaits us ....

 

[SFGRTB]

While I agree with the idea of wait and see .... I (personally) feel that the the Giants have not committed to a rebuild. What I feel they will commit to is some sort of a patchwork upgrade to make them as competitive as possible. Almost the same approach they took during the Bonds era. I also know that a typical response is to believe in management. They know what they are doing. As a fan I have an emotional investment. As management and ownership they have a financial investment. They want and need to make a return on their investment. A rebuild process is long and also dangerous. How many fans are really willing to sit back for a few years and watch their team try and 'find' themselves. A very tough choice for management.

Since the 2016 ASB this team has gone 98-140. The question really is ..... can they 'fix' something as wrong as this ... or do they in fact have a core of players to expand on. I don't see a solid core. I love Buster .... but he is a 30 year old catcher with 7 years of mileage. As good as Bum is .... what do we have after him?

A very interesting year awaits us ....

They absolutely haven't, and it's on Bear and Johnson at the moment. Evans and co. have their hands right now. They aren't allowed to rebuild (I'm convinced they want to), so they're going to make due with what they have. I think that's why the Stanton rumor is so prevalent because the Giants will only have to give up money and a low, low level prospect to get him.

To me, this coaching shuffle is a move for the present and future. See if these new coaches can do something with the current core to significantly improve (doubtful), or if it doesn't work out go through a rebuild with a coaching staff in place more or less ready to commit to it.

 

[calsnowskier]

While I agree with the idea of wait and see .... I (personally) feel that the the Giants have not committed to a rebuild. What I feel they will commit to is some sort of a patchwork upgrade to make them as competitive as possible. Almost the same approach they took during the Bonds era. I also know that a typical response is to believe in management. They know what they are doing. As a fan I have an emotional investment. As management and ownership they have a financial investment. They want and need to make a return on their investment. A rebuild process is long and also dangerous. How many fans are really willing to sit back for a few years and watch their team try and 'find' themselves. A very tough choice for management.

Since the 2016 ASB this team has gone 98-140. The question really is ..... can they 'fix' something as wrong as this ... or do they in fact have a core of players to expand on. I don't see a solid core. I love Buster .... but he is a 30 year old catcher with 7 years of mileage. As good as Bum is .... what do we have after him?

A very interesting year awaits us ....

I agree almost 100%.

The FO will (hopefully) do a half-hearted attempt to compete, just so they can avoid saying they are rebuilding. I HOPE they don’t try to buy any wins in trades with any worthwhile prospects, but I fear they will hear the blowhards on KNBR who just yell about winning now with no eye on tomorrow (but then will complain about how they’d traded a guy like Duvall 2 years after the fact).

None of us know if any of these coaches are any good. In baseball, most of coaching is done behind the scenes (manager included). So we REALLY should all just stfu about these coaching changes. We are all terribly unqualified to even have an opinion. So I will just trust that these moves make sense.

 

[SFGRTB]

Giants have a new hitting coach:

Alonzo Powell, the current assistant hitting coach for the Astros.


Powell is a San Francisco native, and was drafted by the Giants once upon a time:

Alonzo Powell Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

 

[SFGRTB]

So the Giants hired analytical based guys, two young bloods in the coaching sphere. I like it. Still have to fill the pitching coach position.

Here's name I'm going to throw out there that we might hear about:

Jason Bere, Indians' bullpen coach.

 

[calsnowskier]

So the Giants hired analytical based guys, two young bloods in the coaching sphere. I like it. Still have to fill the pitching coach position.

Here's name I'm going to throw out there that we might hear about:

Jason Bere, Indians' bullpen coach.

???

I heard about Powell (here only, but OK). Were there other announcements? Asst Hitting?

Bullpen = Herges
Hitting = Powell
Pitching = ??
Asst Hitting = ??

Bench = Bam Bam
3B = Wotus
1B = Alguacil (sp?)
Video = Dunston (is Chop still around?)

What about Whiteside? I haven’t heard if he was let go or not.

 

[SFGRTB]

???

I heard about Powell (here only, but OK). Were there other announcements? Asst Hitting?

Bullpen = Herges
Hitting = Powell
Pitching = ??
Asst Hitting = ??

Bench = Bam Bam
3B = Wotus
1B = Alguacil (sp?)
Video = Dunston (is Chop still around?)

What about Whiteside? I haven’t heard if he was let go or not.

Sorry, I meant the two guys they hired are young, analytical based coaches. I see now the way I typed it out insinuates they've hired 4 people.

I have a feeling the assistant HC position will go to someone within the org.

 

[Stokes1931]

???

I heard about Powell (here only, but OK). Were there other announcements? Asst Hitting?

Bullpen = Herges
Hitting = Powell
Pitching = ??
Asst Hitting = ??

Bench = Bam Bam
3B = Wotus
1B = Alguacil (sp?)
Video = Dunston (is Chop still around?)

What about Whiteside? I haven’t heard if he was let go or not.

If they do, he only has himself to blame.

 

[calsnowskier]

Sorry, I meant the two guys they hired are young, analytical based coaches. I see now the way I typed it out insinuates they've hired 4 people.

I have a feeling the assistant HC position will go to someone within the org.

Is Powell young? He broke into the game in ‘83.

 

[SFGRTB]

Is Powell young? He broke into the game in ‘83.

52. Guess it makes him currently the 4th oldest of the six main coaches, with the 7th undetermined.

Bochy, Wotus, Raggs, Gardner all older.

Didn't realize how much coaching history he has. Since 2002, he's been a coach in the minors or majors all but two years (2006, 2011).

 

[calsnowskier]

52. Guess it makes him currently the 4th oldest of the six main coaches, with the 7th undetermined.

Bochy, Wotus, Raggs, Gardner all older.

Didn't realize how much coaching history he has. Since 2002, he's been a coach in the minors or majors all but two years (2006, 2011).

I don’t know that Rags is considered a coach anymore. I suspect he will be more of a scout. I think Gardy will be a roving instructor, though.

 

[SFGRTB]

I don’t know that Rags is considered a coach anymore. I suspect he will be more of a scout. I think Gardy will be a roving instructor, though.

Yeah I just included those two to give context. Powell is the 4th oldest of six current coaches, but compared to Raggs and Gardner he is younger.