Possible coaching changes

[SFGRTB]

Bob Nightengale (of all people) seems to have an ear in what the Giants are doing.

He said, with conviction, that Nevin is out (expected), Ron Wotus is the 3rd base coach, BamBam is the bench coach, Gardner/Righetti reassigned, and the search outside the org for a pitching and hitting coach begins. He also reiterated the fact that BamBam is being groomed to take over for Boch.

 

[Stokes1931]

Hensley Meulens

Stokes' worst nightmare.

 

[Stokes1931]

Bob Nightengale (of all people) seems to have an ear in what the Giants are doing.

He said, with conviction, that Nevin is out (expected), Ron Wotus is the 3rd base coach, BamBam is the bench coach, Gardner/Righetti reassigned, and the search outside the org for a pitching and hitting coach begins. He also reiterated the fact that BamBam is being groomed to take over for Boch.

Well, then, it will be pitching and defense. Who needs hitting anymore?

 

[SFGRTB]

Stokes' worst nightmare.

Haha I know your thing with him Stokes, but I gotta say he has to be a real stand up guy.

 

[LHG]

Stokes' worst nightmare.

If the Giants struggle the next two years, I would expect a full housecleaning, not a baton hand off. Let's see what happens in 2018 before you go into nightmare mode.

 

[Stokes1931]

If the Giants struggle the next two years, I would expect a full housecleaning, not a baton hand off. Let's see what happens in 2018 before you go into nightmare mode.

I have been in nightmare mode since just after the ASB in 2016......

 

[VASFfan]

So I guess I'm slow on the uptake on this, but is Bochy not being allowed to control the makeup of his own staff? In general, I think it's kind of stupid when executives effectively or explicitly deny their managers or head coaches the right to control who is on their staff and what their assignments are. But if Bochy hasn't earned the right to determine who works with/for him, no one has.

 

[calsnowskier]

So I guess I'm slow on the uptake on this, but is Bochy not being allowed to control the makeup of his own staff? In general, I think it's kind of stupid when executives effectively or explicitly deny their managers or head coaches the right to control who is on their staff and what their assignments are. But if Bochy hasn't earned the right to determine who works with/for him, no one has.

Who said he is being strong-armed?

And after 98 losses, shouldn’t wholesale changes be EVERYONE’S idea?

 

[VASFfan]

Who said he is being strong-armed?

And after 98 losses, shouldn’t wholesale changes be EVERYONE’S idea?

I don't know...do YOU think kicking Righetti to the curb was Bochy's idea? Or Gardner, for that matter? Let's not be naïve.

And if the front office thinks Bochy is incapable of putting together a successful staff, then by turning over his coaches they're just shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic. Maybe the change needs to start at the top, namely Bochy.

 

[calsnowskier]

I don't know...do YOU think kicking Righetti to the curb was Bochy's idea? Or Gardner, for that matter? Let's not be naïve.

And if the front office thinks Bochy is incapable of putting together a successful staff, then by turning over his coaches they're just shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic. Maybe the change needs to start at the top, namely Bochy.

Rags was not “kicked to the curb”. He was one of the longest tenured pitching coaches in the history of the game, and has now been given a front-office job.

And you believe Evens told Bochy that Rags was out and Bochy disagreed 100% and that the idea was contentious? And that Boch would be left out of the hiring process for his replacement?

Now who is being naive?

 

[stanford the manford]

knbr floated david bell being groomed as bochy's successor.

just brought back as vp player development.... not sure what, if any, coaching credentials he has

spreading rumors

 

[LHG]

Rags was not “kicked to the curb”. He was one of the longest tenured pitching coaches in the history of the game, and has now been given a front-office job.

And you believe Evens told Bochy that Rags was out and Bochy disagreed 100% and that the idea was contentious? And that Boch would be left out of the hiring process for his replacement?

Now who is being naive?

If there is one quality that Bochy (indeed, the entire org) possesses its loyalty. I cannot imagine that Bochy would have wanted to move on from any of his long time guys. My thought is that this was probably a contentious conversation between the FO and Bochy. The FO probably came from the perspective that changes need to happen in light of the last year and a half. Bochy's compromise probably came in recognizing changes needed to happen and the FO's willingness to keep most of the guys in the organization at some capacity. I wonder how easy or difficult the new pitching coach's job will be with Righetti still there to provide input. Kind of like some of the MLB clubs that move up a powerful GM to another position in the FO and bringing on a new GM in a somewhat deluded capacity.

 

[VASFfan]

Rags was not “kicked to the curb”. He was one of the longest tenured pitching coaches in the history of the game, and has now been given a front-office job.

And you believe Evens told Bochy that Rags was out and Bochy disagreed 100% and that the idea was contentious? And that Boch would be left out of the hiring process for his replacement?

Now who is being naive?

You are. Without a doubt. "given a front office job"...puh-leeze, you ARE naïve. That's political cover, a gold watch, and you KNOW it. Or should. Rags' silence speaks eloquent volumes.

100%? Who knows. I DO know that Bochy wouldn't have tossed Rags overboard if it were left to him. That's not how he operates, and if you don't know that, then you haven't been paying attention.

If it WAS his decision, then I'm sure he'll say so. As of now, Evans is the only one saying anything. And he's explicitly said that 'we' are interviewing people. NOT that it's Bochy's decision. I reiterate, if they don't trust him to decide for HIMSELF who he wants to have on staff, that Evans has to have his fingerprints involved, then there are bigger problems than who the bullpen coach is.

 

[calsnowskier]

You are. Without a doubt. "given a front office job"...puh-leeze, you ARE naïve. That's political cover, a gold watch, and you KNOW it. Or should. Rags' silence speaks eloquent volumes.

100%? Who knows. I DO know that Bochy wouldn't have tossed Rags overboard if it were left to him. That's not how he operates, and if you don't know that, then you haven't been paying attention.

If it WAS his decision, then I'm sure he'll say so. As of now, Evans is the only one saying anything. And he's explicitly said that 'we' are interviewing people. NOT that it's Bochy's decision. I reiterate, if they don't trust him to decide for HIMSELF who he wants to have on staff, that Evans has to have his fingerprints involved, then there are bigger problems than who the bullpen coach is.

Given a promotion =/= “kicked to the curb”. Even if the guy didn’t want the promotion. “Kicked to the curb” is what Jerreh did to Landry, or to a lesser extent what Jerreh did to Jimmeh or what Jed did to Harbs.

If left to his own devices, would Boch have moved on from Rags? Probably not. But Boch is not the hammer-wielder. Was the move made without his input? No way in hell. I am sure they ad LOTS of ideas on the table, and I am sure that the conversation did not start last week. The shakeup discussions probably began to pickup steam at about the ASB this year. And I would assume that Bochy “retiring” was/is on the table. Boch is a HOFer and should join the stratosphere of Mays and McCovey when it comes to Giants Alumni. But he has, AT MOST 2 more seasons. The org has the responsibility to plan past that. So while Boch should have say in the long-term plans, he should not have final say. That belongs to Evens and Sabean and Baer and Johnson.

And I am sure that Boch understands and agrees with this, so he doesn’t neeed to be strong-armed.

 

[stanford the manford]

If there is one quality that Bochy (indeed, the entire org) possesses its loyalty. I cannot imagine that Bochy would have wanted to move on from any of his long time guys. My thought is that this was probably a contentious conversation between the FO and Bochy. The FO probably came from the perspective that changes need to happen in light of the last year and a half. Bochy's compromise probably came in recognizing changes needed to happen and the FO's willingness to keep most of the guys in the organization at some capacity. I wonder how easy or difficult the new pitching coach's job will be with Righetti still there to provide input. Kind of like some of the MLB clubs that move up a powerful GM to another position in the FO and bringing on a new GM in a somewhat deluded capacity.

bochy should have walked after this season.... seriously his legacy is cemented and he's not going to be there to see a resurrection. he's got $$, some health, an outstanding record, adoring fans... why stay?

 

[calsnowskier]

bochy should have walked after this season.... seriously his legacy is cemented and he's not going to be there to see a resurrection. he's got $$, some health, an outstanding record, adoring fans... why stay?

The org will never fire him. And if he didn’t want to actually be the manager anymore, he would be “reassigned” so he wouldn’t be leaving any money on the table. So that means he is still around based on his desire to be here.

That said, I agree with you. Why does he still want the job, given his health issues and the current state of the franchise? Maybe he just wants to stick around to assist Bam Bam in setting up the next core.

 

[stanford the manford]

The org will never fire him. And if he didn’t want to actually be the manager anymore, he would be “reassigned” so he wouldn’t be leaving any money on the table. So that means he is still around based on his desire to be here.

That said, I agree with you. Why does he still want the job, given his health issues and the current state of the franchise? Maybe he just wants to stick around to assist Bam Bam in setting up the next core.

at the end of the day, move forward or move back... no point in standing pat. he's earned the right to stay, but i don't see it as good for either him (not that i'm in a position to judge) or the organization. the giants of '10, '12, '14 are in the past and they need to move forward. no one else is standing still ...

 

[calsnowskier]

at the end of the day, move forward or move back... no point in standing pat. he's earned the right to stay, but i don't see it as good for either him (not that i'm in a position to judge) or the organization. the giants of '10, '12, '14 are in the past and they need to move forward. no one else is standing still ...

But the team will not be competitive in ‘18. Probably not in ‘19 either. So let Boch stick around for at least ‘18 to show BamBam and/or Bell (I haven’t seen that rumor anywhere but here, fwiw) the ropes, and probably actually hand the reigns over to BamBam a bunch of times for on-the-job training.

 

[stanford the manford]

But the team will not be competitive in ‘18. Probably not in ‘19 either. So let Boch stick around for at least ‘18 to show BamBam and/or Bell (I haven’t seen that rumor anywhere but here, fwiw) the ropes, and probably actually hand the reigns over to BamBam a bunch of times for on-the-job training.

personally i think it is time for a reboot. you need younger talent very few, if any, are going to be strong contributors in '20, '21, '22.... hire your manager of the future and let them pick the staff and guide the makeup of the team

it's like the democratic party... the sooner the old guard moves aside, the sooner they will become relevant (sorry for the political reference).

if management is so damn sure bambam is the man, turn it over to him and let's find out sooner rather than later. it's not like he doesn't know the organization or is new to running a team.... let's get it on or not. i hate being in limbo

btw the bell rumor was just a casual drop by one of the morning knbr guys... other than 'people have told me' it doesn't have much credence. but it's as founded as anything atm...

 

[calsnowskier]

personally i think it is time for a reboot. you need younger talent very few, if any, are going to be strong contributors in '20, '21, '22.... hire your manager of the future and let them pick the staff and guide the makeup of the team

it's like the democratic party... the sooner the old guard moves aside, the sooner they will become relevant (sorry for the political reference).

if management is so damn sure bambam is the man, turn it over to him and let's find out sooner rather than later. it's not like he doesn't know the organization or is new to running a team.... let's get it on or not. i hate being in limbo

btw the bell rumor was just a casual drop by one of the morning knbr guys... other than 'people have told me' it doesn't have much credence. but it's as founded as anything atm...

Valid points. But if the org does not expect Tom compete in ‘18, wouldn’t it behoove them to let Boch eat that season and protect BamBam from the Fringe?

And maybe BamBam IS directly involved in the search for the remaining coaches.