OT: Politics Thread - Do Not Open Unless You Want to Argue

[SLY]

Stand up, America! Demand a deal on debt - CNN.com

On one hand, Republicans are desperately trying to hold on to their purely insane ideological position that there must be no revenue and/or tax increases. It is as if these idiots refuse to believe any data that make clear that the massive tax cuts put in place by President George W. Bush have increased the federal deficit.

But they are afraid of running afoul of Grover Norquist and his Kool-Aid drinkers at the Americans for Tax Reform, who are more than willing to protect the millionaires and billionaires in this country, with their jets and yachts, from having to pay taxes at previous levels.

Then there are the Democrats, who have this equally insane belief that we can reduce the deficit and not touch Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. Those three areas, along with the billions we continue to spend on national defense, constitute most of the dollars we spend on the federal budget. And those costs are spiraling out of control. So, of course, we must make some hard choices, and yes, that will mean making adjustments that might upset seniors.

This is why the American public, especially the silent majority, must get off their collective butts and say, "Get this deal done. Now." Enough with the Tea Party driving Republicans over a cliff with their insistence on no revenue increases. And enough with Democrats bowing down to the liberal left who say "no mas" to any entitlement cuts.

All of you who sit passively by and watch as the ideological purists make all the noise and dominate the cable news shows must take a stand and say, "Enough!"

Every single American should be blowing up the phone lines and e-mails of their representatives every day until a debt ceiling deal is brokered. Yeah, you may not like a revenue increase or an entitlement cut, but thinking that the other side must shoulder the full burden is just dumb. "Shared pain" is not a negative statement. It's real and necessary.

While I agree with a lot of what this man is saying, I don't believe the debt ceiling should be raised. People do need to wake up, and perhaps an extreme economical collapse will do just that. Continuing to raise the debt ceiling is just going to weaken the U.S. dollar even more. I also don't agree with the seniors not receiving the aid that they were promised. These people spent their whole lives working and paying into programs that were promised to take care of them. Young people who do not work and survive off of entitlement programs should be the ones to get hit here. Enough with the freebies. I dont know numbers, nor many details, but that is where I would start with this problem. Do not raise the debt ceiling and cripple our worth even more.

The U.S. people really do need to wake the fuck up and demand for a change in how the U.S. conducts itself. Living off of credit is just ridiculous. In trying to help every god damn country out there we are just handing our "superpower" status over to other countries.

What would you do? Canadians can weigh in on this as well if they would like...

 

[elocomotive]

Canadians can weigh in on this as well if they would like...

I would like to argue that point! Canadians can stay the hell out of this and welcome new tax-paying liberals who will "move to canada" if things don't improve. I'm not sure where conservatives move to. Maybe to Mexico. Endless "freedom" and guns down there.

As for entitlements, that albatross doesn't belong to either party, but both sure have been good about avoiding dealing with it for a couple decades now. But part of the problem is with voters and our media environment. Some complain about high taxes, even though our tax rates are far below most other industrialized nations. Some complain about social security, even though we are living and working longer, so pushing it back some seems appropriate. A media environment rife with labels, sound bites, and catering to hate-filled entertainment doesn't make sifting through these complex problems and coming up with solutions any easier.

 

[SLY]

Agreed. So you support pushing the retirement age back and raising taxes? Do you believe in a uniform percentage for all? Or do you believe in taxing a certain group more than another? And then what is your stance on entitlement programs? Reform them or leave them be?

 

[SuperFlyer13]

TAX THE FUCK OUT OF THE RICH AND THE OIL COMPANIES! ONE GOOD FUCKING DESERVES ANOTHER!

 

[SLY]

 

[SuperFlyer13]

You didn't say anything about a logical argument, now did you!

 

[SLY]

lol

 

[huskers1217]

I would like to see interest rates go up...that is all.

 

[SLY]

I would like to see interest rates go up...that is all.

That will prevent people from living off of credit for the most part, but how do you see this solving the current problem the U.S. govt. faces? We are staring an economic meltdown in the eyes, they need to make some choices pretty quickly and better make the right ones.

It seems they are either going to raise the debt ceiling which ultimately solves nothing just prolongs the bleeding. Or they will hold out on paying the seniors their benefits whom should not suffer, or hold out on paying our debtors thus destroying our credit rating as a country.

 

[maddogmark25]

Lower commercial taxes, spurn growth, while at the same time cutting down or completely eliminating certain government programs or reworkingt them in some way (coughwelfareandmedicarecough)

Problem fixed

 

[pixburgher66]

We all know medicare will never get the axe...same with welfare, even though it clearly needs work.

 

[dare2be]

Spending has to go down across the board, and taxes have to go up across the board. There is no way around it. Neither side wants to see one or both of those happen, which is why we have this standoff.

 

[huskers1217]

Solving the current debt problem wont happen until both parties stop worry about what is good for their party.

Social programs are a part of life - Republicans have to accept that. They are way out of control and must be reformed. Clinton has some great ideas with welfare reform but most republicans won't acknowledge that. Democrats can't give money away to every Tom, Dick and Harry. Social Security should go away and be replaced with 401k's. This will put money into the market and keep money out of the federal government.

Schools must be reformed - and lesson plans revised. In most poor schools, they don't get taught how credit cards work and how money works. They aren't encouraged to go to college so most think their life will be out on the streets anyway. Besides, you can't learn if you are worried if someone is going to cut you between classes.

Gambling should be legal is all 50 states - This will increase revenue. The lottery system is in place in most states and are usually only played by the lower income families who are throwing their money away on the chance to change their life completely. Casinos, although predominately have lower class, do bring in the high rollers to help with the revenues.

 

[dare2be]

Lower commercial taxes, spurn growth, while at the same time cutting down or completely eliminating certain government programs or reworkingt them in some way (coughwelfareandmedicarecough)

Problem fixed

Don't forget military spending is out of control as well. When I say across the board, I mean, across the board.

 

[maddogmark25]

Spending has to go down across the board, and taxes have to go up across the board. There is no way around it. Neither side wants to see one or both of those happen, which is why we have this standoff.

Not commercial taxes, I keep saying no growth will happen unless commercial taxes are lowered

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

Nothing is going to change until we get term limits in congress, and THAT is a fact.

Three immediate changes that I would make:

1. Presidential term is extended to 6 years with NO immediate re-election possibility. Our PUSA spends as much time campaigning as governing and that is just plain conuter-productive. This goes for both parties. Every trip that any president takes ends up with 2-3 fundraisers tacked on. Spend 6 years actually governing. If you want to run a second time, you have to wait out a term.

2. We need to extend the terms for members of the HOR to 4 years and have the turnover be staggered every two years (like the Senate, but 4 year terms). many of these folks take public funding and it is asinine that they run every two fucking years. They spend all of their time running for office! How much time do they actually spend writing bills and evaluating, maybe 45 minutes?

3. TERM LIMITS!!! It will never happen, because the law would have to be written by the people in congress, and why would they want to limit their cushy jobs, where they work like 1/4 of the calendar year, but we need to have it happen. In the house, make the limit 3 terms of 12 years. In the Senate, two terms or 12 years. New blood is needed across the board and we need a regular infusion of it.

 

[SLY]

Solving the current debt problem wont happen until both parties stop worry about what is good for their party.

Social programs are a part of life - Republicans have to accept that. They are way out of control and must be reformed. Clinton has some great ideas with welfare reform but most republicans won't acknowledge that. Democrats can't give money away to every Tom, Dick and Harry. Social Security should go away and be replaced with 401k's. This will put money into the market and keep money out of the federal government.

Schools must be reformed - and lesson plans revised. In most poor schools, they don't get taught how credit cards work and how money works. They aren't encouraged to go to college so most think their life will be out on the streets anyway. Besides, you can't learn if you are worried if someone is going to cut you between classes.

Gambling should be legal is all 50 states - This will increase revenue. The lottery system is in place in most states and are usually only played by the lower income families who are throwing their money away on the chance to change their life completely. Casinos, although predominately have lower class, do bring in the high rollers to help with the revenues.

While I agree children should be taught about monetary responsibility, this is completely farfethced. I was a white kid living in the ghetto most of my childhood. That did not stop me from learning and maturing. Much of my life outside of school was on the streets, yet I still managed to see that hard work gets you to where you want to go. Too many people just give up on life. And that is largely due to the govt and their entitlement programs... It is too easy to seek aid, needs to stop.

 

[SLY]

Nothing is going to change until we get term limits in congress, and THAT is a fact.

Three immediate changes that I would make:

1. Presidential term is extended to 6 years with NO immediate re-election possibility. Our PUSA spends as much time campaigning as governing and that is just plain conuter-productive. This goes for both parties. Every trip that any president takes ends up with 2-3 fundraisers tacked on. Spend 6 years actually governing. If you want to run a second time, you have to wait out a term.

2. We need to extend the terms for members of the HOR to 4 years and have the turnover be staggered every two years (like the Senate, but 4 year terms). many of these folks take public funding and it is asinine that they run every two fucking years. They spend all of their time running for office! How much time do they actually spend writing bills and evaluating, maybe 45 minutes?

3. TERM LIMITS!!! It will never happen, because the law would have to be written by the people in congress, and why would they want to limit their cushy jobs, where they work like 1/4 of the calendar year, but we need to have it happen. In the house, make the limit 3 terms of 12 years. In the Senate, two terms or 12 years. New blood is needed across the board and we need a regular infusion of it.

Awesome post, all three points. Definitely a start... It is just sad that it seems impossible to awaken the public.

 

[jerseyjigroe]

Spending has to go down across the board, and taxes have to go up across the board. There is no way around it. Neither side wants to see one or both of those happen, which is why we have this standoff.

The problem is that raising taxes in a recession is suicide. You think unemployment is high now? Just wait until taxes are raised.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

Awesome post, all three points. Definitely a start... It is just sad that it seems impossible to awaken the public.

I know......