Only 6 active NFL QBs have EVER thrown

[DirtDirtDirt]

You cannot be an NFL QB and be the toughest player in the NFL.

Eli ballwashers are amazing

Where's that stated?

Ballwasher my ass

Id take 15 QB's in todays NFL over Eli, he's my biggest concern on this years roster

But when we get to the point where the jealousy of his accomplishments have reached the levels he is being compared to Jim Plunkett and Jay Cutler because some cherry picked #'s seem to stack up, while the most important numbers are laughably different, at some point its pure lunacy

I sit here everyday and hear that Tom Brady is the GOAT, with ZERO regard for 'Eras', with no mention of how some past greats would be putting up pinball numbers in that ridiculous division in an era where you arent allowed to play defense, but all of a sudden, Im hearing 'Era' talk?

Gimme a break

 

[richig07]

Be sure to include in your "Identical" analysis

That one QB has a mere 16,000 less career passing yards than the other

120 less career passing TD's than the other

One guy has led his team to a grand total of 2 postseason games, the other 12, and 2 SB titles (and before we all babble on about the Giants defense, go take a look at Eli Mannings 2007 and 2011 entire postseason numbers)


Sorry, in this pussified era of NFL football, a guy doesnt get penalized for playing every single snap of a 13 year career, he gets rewarded for it, thats the toughest player in the game today, bar none


But hey, "Identical" careers


The shit i read in this place

Well, seeing as this is written with a lot of emotion. It should be easy to pick at, upon approaching it with calm and rational logic.

That one QB has a mere 16,000 less career passing yards than the other

One has played 90 more games than the other, and started his career before him. We've established that longevity and durability has been a strong suit of Eli's. However, pertaining to this topic today, I am simply looking for how effective Eli really was over the course of his career. Measured up against his league counterparts. It does me no good to take their career accumulated totals into account, when we are talking about a 90 game landslide. That's nearly six full seasons.

I touched on yardage with 3 different statistics. They are staggeringly even.

Jay Cutler

233.6 YPG
11.7 YPC
7.2 YPA

Eli Manning

239.9 YPG
11.8 YPC
7.1 YPA

120 less career passing TD's than the other

I clearly touched on passing TD's.

Jay Cutler

4.6 TD%

Eli Manning

4.7 TD%

Funny how you don't care to bring up the INT's either. Hmm... cherry picking, are we?

Jay Cutler

3.3 INT%

Eli Manning

3.2 INT%

One guy has led his team to a grand total of 2 postseason games, the other 12, and 2 SB titles (and before we all babble on about the Giants defense, go take a look at Eli Mannings 2007 and 2011 entire postseason numbers)

I clearly acknowledged Eli's two successful post-season runs, and that he played well. Calm down... it's going to be okay.

a guy doesnt get penalized for playing every single snap of a 13 year career

No one is trying to penalize Eli, at all. I've complimented Eli for that.

However, I also do not have to pretend that he was more effective than he was, when he was on the field. That's not penalizing a player, it's honestly breaking them down.

But hey, "Identical" careers

You're really creating a lot of straw-man arguments here. I never said this either. I clearly acknowledged Eli's two post-season runs. That's what separates him from Cutler, and I would never say their resumes are the same.

My point here was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Outside of going unconscious twice in the post-season, Eli has been a league average, to slightly above average QB. Who has accumulated numbers by lasting a long time, and playing "okay" in the process. It's not as though we've seen the guy perennially playing in the post-season either. He just got there for the first time since that 2011 season, and got clobbered.

He's a fine QB, who got crazy hot twice and won the Super Bowl. Which makes him much closer to Plunkett, than Elway. Who sustained a very long year career of perennial dominance and elite play throughout his entire career. Then, at the end, finally came through and won the big game twice.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Well, seeing as this is written with a lot of emotion. It should be easy to pick at, upon approaching it with calm and rational logic.

That one QB has a mere 16,000 less career passing yards than the other

One has played 90 more games than the other, and started his career before him. We've established that longevity and durability has been a strong suit of Eli's. However, pertaining to this topic today, I am simply looking for how effective Eli really was over the course of his career. Measured up against his league counterparts. It does me no good to take their career accumulated totals into account, when we are talking about a 90 game landslide. That's nearly six full seasons.

I touched on yardage with 3 different statistics. They are staggeringly even.

Jay Cutler

233.6 YPG
11.7 YPC
7.2 YPA

Eli Manning

239.9 YPG
11.8 YPC
7.1 YPA

120 less career passing TD's than the other

I clearly touched on passing TD's.

Jay Cutler

4.6 TD%

Eli Manning

4.7 TD%

Funny how you don't care to bring up the INT's either. Hmm... cherry picking, are we?

Jay Cutler

3.3 INT%

Eli Manning

3.2 INT%

One guy has led his team to a grand total of 2 postseason games, the other 12, and 2 SB titles (and before we all babble on about the Giants defense, go take a look at Eli Mannings 2007 and 2011 entire postseason numbers)

I clearly acknowledged Eli's two successful post-season runs, and that he played well. Calm down... it's going to be okay.

a guy doesnt get penalized for playing every single snap of a 13 year career

No one is trying to penalize Eli, at all. I've complimented Eli for that.

However, I also do not have to pretend that he was more effective than he was, when he was on the field. That's not penalizing a player, it's honestly breaking them down.

But hey, "Identical" careers

You're really creating a lot of straw-man arguments here. I never said this either. I clearly acknowledged Eli's two post-season runs. That's what separates him from Cutler, and I would never say their resumes are the same.

My point here was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Outside of going unconscious twice in the post-season, Eli has been a league average, to slightly above average QB. Who has accumulated numbers by lasting a long time, and playing "okay" in the process. It's not as though we've seen the guy perennially playing in the post-season either. He just got there for the first time since that 2011 season, and got clobbered.

He's a fine QB, who got crazy hot twice and won the Super Bowl. Which makes him much closer to Plunkett, than Elway. Who sustained a very long year career of perennial dominance and elite play throughout his entire career. Then, at the end, finally came through and won the big game twice.

Id never compare him to Elway, just like Id never compare Cutler or Plunkett to him

And I dont think im in the minority with either statement

And I would put Philip Rivers in the accumulator category long before Eli

Once youre a 2 time SB champ, you are eliminated from Accumulator conversation

 

[richig07]

Id never compare him to Elway, just like Id never compare Cutler or Plunkett to him

And I dont think im in the minority with either statement

And I would put Philip Rivers in the accumulator category long before Eli

Once youre a 2 time SB champ, you are eliminated from Accumulator conversation

Id never compare him to Elway, just like Id never compare Cutler or Plunkett to him

Plunkett compares pretty god damn well. Eli with the slight nod, but it's a completely valid comparison. Both had two great post-season runs, despite being nothing more than average to decent through most of their careers. Both will be the only multi-SB champion QB's to never get in the HOF. They'll be forever attached through that, if nothing else.

Once youre a 2 time SB champ, you are eliminated from Accumulator conversation

That would be convenient for you, if it were true. However, winning 2 SB's does not abolish completely average play throughout the other 99% of your career. As we can see from Plunkett, you need something more on the resume besides "He won 2 SB's... so there! That's it!".

Eli's bloated career numbers are a result of accumulating empty calories in an era where yardage and TD's are given away. He was never even an after thought in the discussion of "best QB" among his counterparts during his career. Was ever even top 5? Perhaps for one or two years, but it's debatable.

If Eli was not a Manning, he wouldn't be approached with nearly the same reverence.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Id never compare him to Elway, just like Id never compare Cutler or Plunkett to him

Plunkett compares pretty god damn well. Eli with the slight nod, but it's a completely valid comparison. Both had two great post-season runs, despite being nothing more than average to decent through most of their careers. Both will be the only multi-SB champion QB's to never get in the HOF. They'll be forever attached through that, if nothing else.

Once youre a 2 time SB champ, you are eliminated from Accumulator conversation

That would be convenient for you, if it were true. However, winning 2 SB's does not abolish completely average play throughout the other 99% of your career. As we can see from Plunkett, you need something more on the resume besides "He won 2 SB's... so there! That's it!".

Eli's bloated numbers are empty calories. He was never even an after thought in the discussion of "best QB" among his counterparts during his career. Was ever even top 5? Perhaps for one or two years, but it's debatable.

If Eli was not a Manning, he wouldn't be approached with nearly the same reverence.

Eli Manning will come close to tripling some of Jim Plunketts career numbers, including passing yards and TD's

And the general consensus is prob 60/40 that Eli will be in the HOF, and thats as of today, without accounting for his 2 or 3 more seasons starting in the NFL, putting him in the Top 5 all time in passing yards

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Id never compare him to Elway, just like Id never compare Cutler or Plunkett to him

Plunkett compares pretty god damn well. Eli with the slight nod, but it's a completely valid comparison. Both had two great post-season runs, despite being nothing more than average to decent through most of their careers. Both will be the only multi-SB champion QB's to never get in the HOF. They'll be forever attached through that, if nothing else.

Once youre a 2 time SB champ, you are eliminated from Accumulator conversation

That would be convenient for you, if it were true. However, winning 2 SB's does not abolish completely average play throughout the other 99% of your career. As we can see from Plunkett, you need something more on the resume besides "He won 2 SB's... so there! That's it!".

Eli's bloated career numbers are a result of accumulating empty calories in an era where yardage and TD's are given away. He was never even an after thought in the discussion of "best QB" among his counterparts during his career. Was ever even top 5? Perhaps for one or two years, but it's debatable.

If Eli was not a Manning, he wouldn't be approached with nearly the same reverence.

What you meant to say is "if Eli did not win 2 Super Bowls, he wouldnt be approached with nearly the same reverence"

And you are right, he would be seen as an average QB that would have been kicked out of NY long ago

But he did achieve what every QB plays for, what every fan cheers for, and he achieved it twice

Continuing to refer to it as if its a sidenote in his career, instead of thing that matters most, is probably where youre making your biggest mistake

 

[megalodon30]

Both will be the only multi-SB champion QB's to never get in the HOF.

Eli will probably get in 'cause he's, you know, a Manning. Something something Peyton's coattails something.

 

[jarntt]

Right . That's my point . Is 3 years enough to judge a guy who really hasn't had much help ? We've seen teams give up on first round QBs who have decent numbers before . Some times it's a good call, other times you trade Drew Brees. Likewise we have seen teams stick with QBs with shaky first 2 or 3 years and it worjs out great . You know what Henne is, does anyone really know what Bortles is for sure?

Brees was a about to get a big contract and had Rivers behind him. He wasn't benched due to skill, he was traded for the two reasons mentioned in sentence 1

 

[jarntt]

Yep- leads to a lot of pissing contests. I know to this day I'll still argue Peyton as GOAT, but

 

[richig07]

Eli will probably get in 'cause he's, you know, a Manning. Something something Peyton's coattails something.

Nah. HOF voting is taken pretty seriously. Nothing is given to anyone. A lot of great players who have gotten turned away.

The people who would be voting for an Eli HOF induction, would be the same people who never once voted him as an All-Pro. How would that work? I don't see how...

 

[Blotch]

Eli will probably get in 'cause he's, you know, a Manning. Something something Peyton's coattails something.

That would be a joke.

He is no more deserving of the Hall of Fame than Joe Flacco will be

 

[megalodon30]

That would be a joke.

He is no more deserving of the Hall of Fame than Joe Flacco will be

I agree. But don't say I didn't call it if it does happen.

 

[Blotch]

Id never compare him to Elway, just like Id never compare Cutler or Plunkett to him

And I dont think im in the minority with either statement

And I would put Philip Rivers in the accumulator category long before Eli

Once youre a 2 time SB champ, you are eliminated from Accumulator conversation

Don't you have to look a little deeper than just two Super Bowls? If we're evaluating that first one fairly Eli Manning really had nothing to do with his team winning.

Whereas if you look at last year's Superbowl I don't think there's another quarterback alive who could have brought the Patriots back like Tom Brady did last year. Not Aaron Rodgers not Cam Newton not anybody.

It's not a stretch to say that all Superbowl wins are not created equally.

 

[richig07]

Eli Manning will come close to tripling some of Jim Plunketts career numbers, including passing yards and TD's

And the general consensus is prob 60/40 that Eli will be in the HOF, and thats as of today, without accounting for his 2 or 3 more seasons starting in the NFL, putting him in the Top 5 all time in passing yards

Eli Manning will come close to tripling some of Jim Plunketts career numbers, including passing yards and TD's

Eli's numbers stack up pretty similarly to Plunkett's, among each other's counterparts from that era. As I said, those numbers are closer than you think.

For instance, Eli is going to do the exact same thing to Roger Staubach's numbers. 153 TD's and 22,000 yards.

putting him in the Top 5 all time in passing yards

Pretty irrelevant in a day and age where throwing for 4K plus is the norm, and about 40 of the top 50 rated QB's are from this side of the millennium. Eli being the top 5th all-time in yardage is simply not very impressive. Elway throwing for 51,000 yards is more impressive than Eli throwing for 55,000.

Eli's numbers are average among other QB's today. Taking them out of context and comparing them to guys from 30-40 years ago, is so completely dishonest.

There does not exist an argument, that puts Eli in the class of the all-time greats. You have to start in a player's own era, where Eli was dwarfed by a multitude of other QB's.

The same AP that never voted Eli an All-Pro, will not suddenly vote him into the HOF.

 

[richig07]

What you meant to say is "if Eli did not win 2 Super Bowls, he wouldnt be approached with nearly the same reverence"

And you are right, he would be seen as an average QB that would have been kicked out of NY long ago

But he did achieve what every QB plays for, what every fan cheers for, and he achieved it twice

Continuing to refer to it as if its a sidenote in his career, instead of thing that matters most, is probably where youre making your biggest mistake

I am making zero mistakes.

You still don't seem to grasp my point, if you feel I'm dismissing that.

I am accepting Eli's SB wins as being a big notch on his belt. However, there needs to be something more than that. That's what I am looking into, and one can only surmise that he has been average outside of that.

Eli's two post-season runs have proven to be an outlier, in an average career.

 

[megalodon30]

not Cam Newton

Duh.

 

[rmilia1]

I don't really see how you're going to keep Eli out. He's going to end up in the top 10 of most significant QB stats and he's going to have at least 2 rings ( both won vs Brady ). You can say the era stuff all you want but that would be an unprecedented snub if he's left out. Longevity has to count for something especially when it's accompanied with stats and rings

 

[megalodon30]

Longevity has to count for something especially when it's accompanied with stats

Who are you? Craig Biggio?

 

[rmilia1]

Who are you? Craig Biggio?

Does Biggio have 2 rings ? I honestly can't even think of a QB with 2 SB appearances who is not in the HOF.

 

[megalodon30]

Does Biggio have 2 rings ? I honestly can't even think of a QB with 2 SB appearances who is not in the HOF.

Plunkett, or have you not been reading the thread?