Omar's Top 15 Players by Position- CATCHER

[Omar 382]

I thought this would be a good thread to discuss the best players at each position of all time. Ground rules of my rankings, yada yada

1. Steroids are factored in subjectively
2. Era played in is factored in
3. Wherever the player played the most games at a position is where I'll rank him
4. Federal League, ***** League doesn't count
5. On field performance is what matters (sorry Roy Campanella)

Here goes

1. Mike Piazza
2. Johnny Bench
3. Yogi Berra
4. Gary Carter
5. Carlton Fisk
6. Bill Dickey
7. Gabby Hartnett (him and Dickey are interchangeable to me)
8. Joe Torre
9. Mickey Cochrane
10. Buck Ewing
11. Ted Simmons
12. Gene Tenace
13. Ivan Rodriguez
14. Joe Mauer
15. Bill Freehan

 

[calsnowskier]

I thought this would be a good thread to discuss the best players at each position of all time. Ground rules of my rankings, yada yada

1. Steroids are factored in subjectively
2. Era played in is factored in
3. Wherever the player played the most games at a position is where I'll rank him
4. Federal League, ***** League doesn't count
5. On field performance is what matters (sorry Roy Campanella)

Here goes

1. Mike Piazza
2. Johnny Bench
3. Yogi Berra
4. Gary Carter
5. Carlton Fisk
6. Bill Dickey
7. Gabby Hartnett (him and Dickey are interchangeable to me)
8. Joe Torre
9. Mickey Cochrane
10. Buck Ewing
11. Ted Simmons
12. Gene Tenace
13. Ivan Rodriguez
14. Joe Mauer
15. Bill Freehan

End of thread.

 

[Omar 382]

End of thread.

Let's see. Piazza has a higher OBP, SLG, wOBA, wRC+, ISO, oWAR, home runs, and WPA (by about 30 wins).

""

 

[Iffster]

dougplayer sent me his list...........

1. Ivan Rodriguez
2. Bill Freehan
3. Lance Parrish
4. Mickey Cochran
5. James McCann
6. Jarred Saltyguy
7. Jim Price
8. Red Wilson
9. Dick Brown
10. Gus Triandos
11. Frank House
12. Jim Leyland
13. Gene Lamont
14. Alex Avila
15. Don Kelley

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I think the problem with catchers is that defense is SO important but defense is also the hardest to analyze...

So, i don't think any of disagree that Piazza is the best offensive catcher, but his defense is not good enough to be a top 3 Catcher IMO...

 

[Omar 382]

I think the problem with catchers is that defense is SO important but defense is also the hardest to analyze...

So, i don't think any of disagree that Piazza is the best offensive catcher, but his defense is not good enough to be a top 3 Catcher IMO...

BR has his dWAR at a positive 1. Fangraphs has his Fielding and Positional Adjustment at 32.7. And FWIW his cERA was always very good. I don't get how anyone could laugh at the notion of Piazza being the greatest catcher of all time, especially when he runs laps offensively around others playing in predominately large ballparks.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

BR has his dWAR at a positive 1. Fangraphs has his Fielding and Positional Adjustment at 32.7. And FWIW his cERA was always very good. I don't get how anyone could laugh at the notion of Piazza being the greatest catcher of all time, especially when he runs laps offensively around others playing in predominately large ballparks.

Well, part of it is the era Piazza played in...

But mostly, catcher is the only position that people care about defense as much if not more than offense...
I am actually semi surprised that people say Bench is the best ever with that logic... But whatever...

 

[Omar 382]

Well, part of it is the era Piazza played in...

But mostly, catcher is the only position that people care about defense as much if not more than offense...
I am actually semi surprised that people say Bench is the best ever with that logic... But whatever...

I guess I don't really care what people say, especially when people like @Bojack_Horseman exist

 

[soxfan1468927]

1. Johnny Bench
2. Gary Carter
3. Carlton Fisk
4. Yogi Berra
5. Ivan Rodriguez
6. Mike Piazza
7. Bill Dickey
8. Gabby Hartnett
9. Mickey Cochrane
10. Ted Simmons
11. Joe Torre
12. Joe Mauer
13. Gene Tenace
14. Ernie Lombardi
15. Thurman Munson

 

[broncosmitty]

Why the fuck would Roy Campanella not be in anyone's Top 15?

 

[broncosmitty]

The spreadsheets you guys look at it can't be that great.

 

[soxfan1468927]

The spreadsheets you guys look at it can't be that great.

Dude just make your own list.

 

[UK Cowboy]

I thought this would be a good thread to discuss the best players at each position of all time. Ground rules of my rankings, yada yada

1. Steroids are factored in subjectively
2. Era played in is factored in
3. Wherever the player played the most games at a position is where I'll rank him
4. Federal League, ***** League doesn't count
5. On field performance is what matters (sorry Roy Campanella)

Here goes

1. Mike Piazza
2. Johnny Bench
3. Yogi Berra
4. Gary Carter
5. Carlton Fisk
6. Bill Dickey
7. Gabby Hartnett (him and Dickey are interchangeable to me)
8. Joe Torre
9. Mickey Cochrane
10. Buck Ewing
11. Ted Simmons
12. Gene Tenace
13. Ivan Rodriguez
14. Joe Mauer
15. Bill Freehan

Piazza #1 and Pudge #13. Thread Fail

 

[soxfan1468927]

Piazza #1 and Pudge #13. Thread Fail

Huh? Pudge is clearly number 5.

 

[Omar 382]

Piazza #1 and Pudge #13. Thread Fail

Ivan Rodriguez is more retroactively overrated than Ronald fucking Reagan. I mean, talk about stat-padding. .334 OBP, 104 wRC+

 

[williewilliejuan]

This thread is a shining example of what's wrong with viewing players solely on the basis of sabermetrics. No one who ever saw Piazza play defense could argue that he's the best catcher in the history of the game, particularly since catcher is primarily a defensive position. Piazza was arguably the best offensive catcher of all time, but his defense would have to push him down several positions on the overall list.

 

[Omar 382]

Why the fuck would Roy Campanella not be in anyone's Top 15?

Because he got into an accident. Now if you judged the subjective "Top 15" based on pure ability, I could see putting Roy in the top 5.

 

[Omar 382]

This thread is a shining example of what's wrong with viewing players solely on the basis of sabermetrics. No one who ever saw Piazza play defense could argue that he's the best catcher in the history of the game, particularly since catcher is primarily a defensive position. Piazza was arguably the best offensive catcher of all time, but his defense would have to push him down several positions on the overall list.

And could you cite some facts, like I did, as to how his "defense would have to push him down several positions on the overall list." Or, did just watching him allow you to be privy to that esoteric information?

 

[broncosmitty]

Because he got into an accident. Now if you judged the subjective "Top 15" based on pure ability, I could see putting Roy in the top 5.

What does a car accident have to do with anything?

 

[williewilliejuan]

And could you cite some facts, like I did, as to how his "defense would have to push him down several positions on the overall list." Or, did just watching him allow you to be privy to that esoteric information?

Yes. Watching him does help you understand that. Sabermetrics can be valuable if used correctly, but they must always pass the reality test. Piazza was not a good defensive catcher. Not horrible by any stretch (other than his general inability to throw out base stealers), but he was not a great defender. He was worst in the league in terms of bases stolen off of him in the majority of his years behind the plate. Actually watching the game helps you understand that.