No criminal charges for Deshaun Watson

[Shanemansj13]

What percentage do you give Baker being a Brown in 2022?

0.1%

 

[dtgold88]

Baker was good, not great.

2020 Baker was 18th in passing yards, and 30th in Comp%

2018 Baker was 24th in yards and 25th in Comp%

Those are his BEST years....he showed promise, but when comping the Ryan/Baker trade - it's not even close. Ryan returned more because he has a much more consistent track record, and is a better leader (by all reports on Mayfield having those issues). I mean, in 2020 Joe Burrow was 23rd in yards in a season he blew out his knee in the 10th game of the season....just 5 spots behind a full 16 games from Mayfield.

I don't say this to knock on Mayfield (who I actually really liked coming out of NCAA) - but just pointing out the fact that his "best" years still aren't very great years. They would have been steps in the right direction if the following year(s) would have been even better to show progression. Instead, each of those stepping-stone years were followed by years of even worse play.

all about yard and completion %, eh? Not TD to INT ratio? How about QBR and PFF having him in top 10 in 2020? All they do is watch the QB on every single play and determine his contribution - positive or negative - to that play. They will not credit the QB for, say, a completed pass that should have been a pick and they wont downplay him for the opposite.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

0.1%

just read where they are now saying the browns are willing to eat 10 mil. of his salary in a trade.
If true you might want to cut that percentage in half. (0.05%)

 

[dtgold88]

Don't think he has to sit out the year - just sit out long enough, return and can accrue a season - but can return and still not play for the team. Phantom injury, or whatever...but regardless, I don't think this is the route either side wants to go.

They either eat a big chunk of his salary and trade him and get a likely 6th - or cut him outright, each all of his salary (or nearly all of it, as I believe a team would sign him for minimum and then Cleve is on the hook for the rest - but if I am incorrect on that - please advise).

Keeping him around at this point hurts both the Browns and Mayfield...so going their separate ways is the best course of action.

winning is what's best for the Browns and if they think Baker gives them a better chance than JB to win (in the event Watson gets a long suspension) what is the reasoning not to play him and instead pay a large portion of his salary to play elsewhere?

 

[DJ]

I'm just saying, if the Bengals didn't have Burrow, I would be happy to have Baker Mayfield as our starting QB. I think he was just starting to come into his own in year 3, led the Browns to the playoffs, won a game in the playoffs against the hated division rival, and then started off year 4 with an 81% completion percentage prior to ripping his shoulder off his torso. Then he began compensating for that, started leading to many other small injuries. He is a good leader, he was getting more accurate and I think he was just starting to bud in that offense that always lacked consistent stars at wide out. Cleveland deployed more of a running style offense and it is understandable why with Chubb and Hunt and their oline. However, as limited as the passing game was, Mayfield did above average and was improving I think, even on his sterling rookie season.

Yep. Playing hurt cost him a good season.....yet people would be bitching if he had sat out.

Can't win.

 

[dtgold88]

If the team was willing to cover 1/2 of BM's contract before the draft why was that never said publicly? Not until recently has the team said they'd cover 1/2 his contract.

Fact of the matter is the team really hasn't said anything. Not before nor after the draft.

why it's so easy to be a reporter. Fans will believe anything as long as attached to "unnamed sources", "league sources", etc.

 

[Cincyfan78]

all about yard and completion %, eh? Not TD to INT ratio? How about QBR and PFF having him in top 10 in 2020? All they do is watch the QB on every single play and determine his contribution - positive or negative - to that play. They will not credit the QB for, say, a completed pass that should have been a pick and they wont downplay him for the opposite.

Any consistency in ANY of his numbers? The only consistency he's shown is in yards/comp....but again - this is less about where he lands in stats, and more about the direct correlation some have made in regarding his trade value and using Ryan's trade as a comp - which is foolish, IMO.

I like Baker. I think he can still have his best days a head of him. That being said...I think he's gone from Cleveland, and I think he carries much less trade value than Ryan. Just because your a Browns fan, and you want things to work out in the Browns favor - whatever that looks like - doesn't mean that's how reality works. Reality is - The Browns have very little leverage, almost no leverage, in any trade talks because the whole league knows Baker will not be a Brown by the start of the season.

They can either trade him, eat his salary and try and get at least 1 pick in return - or cut him, watch him go wherever he wants, and end up paying nearly all of his salary. The Browns have screwed this up completely - it's OK to admit that, because that's exactly what has happened.

 

[Cincyfan78]

winning is what's best for the Browns and if they think Baker gives them a better chance than JB to win (in the event Watson gets a long suspension) what is the reasoning not to play him and instead pay a large portion of his salary to play elsewhere?

You say this like Baker WANTS to be there. What is in his best interest? If the Browns have nearly zero interest in re-signing him, and he gets hurt...his value plummets. What is his upside in staying? Sure, he *could* play and do really well - maybe well enough to warrant a better contract - but history is working against him - he's been inconsistent at best, and there's no guarantee that he will stay healthy, or have a great season. There's also the fact that he feels completely unwanted and jilted by the organization - which is fair considering how they've completely bent him over backwards during this whole ordeal.

His best play is: He sits out most of the year, pulls a Mendenhall - accrues a season - there isn't an organization out there that will blame him for what has happened this off season.

That last part does nothing to help the Browns, and keeping him around also provides a lot of scrutiny and attention and could be a major distraction. It's the same reason, in the same vein, of why they "mutually" agreed for him to skip the mini-camps. At this point - the best play for both parties is a separation.

 

[dtgold88]

Your answer was NO, but carried on with a but.

What percentage do you give Baker being a Brown in 2022?

Kind of thinking the reason I gave the "but" was needed.

As always I'll answer your question and say 25%.

Maybe you missed it, but can you answer the Q I asked you? Here it is again.....

are you not in agreement the Browns want Watson to not miss many games or even none at all? In addition, there is less (or even no need) to have Baker if watson isn't out long, correct?

 

[dtgold88]

just read where they are now saying the browns are willing to eat 10 mil. of his salary in a trade.
If true you might want to cut that percentage in half. (0.05%)

we have read they are willing to pay none, half, $10 mil. Do fans really believe the Browns are sharing this with others....or that other teams have shared what they asked for?

 

[dtgold88]

Any consistency in ANY of his numbers? The only consistency he's shown is in yards/comp....but again - this is less about where he lands in stats, and more about the direct correlation some have made in regarding his trade value and using Ryan's trade as a comp - which is foolish, IMO.

I like Baker. I think he can still have his best days a head of him. That being said...I think he's gone from Cleveland, and I think he carries much less trade value than Ryan. Just because your a Browns fan, and you want things to work out in the Browns favor - whatever that looks like - doesn't mean that's how reality works. Reality is - The Browns have very little leverage, almost no leverage, in any trade talks because the whole league knows Baker will not be a Brown by the start of the season.

They can either trade him, eat his salary and try and get at least 1 pick in return - or cut him, watch him go wherever he wants, and end up paying nearly all of his salary. The Browns have screwed this up completely - it's OK to admit that, because that's exactly what has happened.

we were talking about 2018 and 2020. want to say he's been inconsistent in his career I doubt anyone would disagree.

The Browns did exactly what they told the fans and Baker they were doing. Not sure what you think they should have done differently other than allow one of the other 4 teams to acquire watson.

all I can admit is media can get fans to believe whatever they want if it suits their agenda.

 

[Wamu]

Fact of the matter is the team really hasn't said anything. Not before nor after the draft.

why it's so easy to be a reporter. Fans will believe anything as long as attached to "unnamed sources", "league sources", etc.

Unnamed sources huh? Okay.

From si-com: Browns willing to pay half of Baker Mayfield's salary for trade, per sources (6/18/22)

Appearing on the Rich Eisen Show si's Albert Beer (do you consider him an "unnamed source"?) said this.

"Cleveland's been willing to take on a fair amount of Baker's salary, like $9, $10 million. For people out there who think Cleveland's holding on to Baker As Deshaun insurance, they wouldn't be offering to take on a significant portion of the guy's salary if they were looking to hold him until there's more clarity in the Deshaun Watson case."

 

[dtgold88]

You say this like Baker WANTS to be there. What is in his best interest? If the Browns have nearly zero interest in re-signing him, and he gets hurt...his value plummets. What is his upside in staying? Sure, he *could* play and do really well - maybe well enough to warrant a better contract - but history is working against him - he's been inconsistent at best, and there's no guarantee that he will stay healthy, or have a great season. There's also the fact that he feels completely unwanted and jilted by the organization - which is fair considering how they've completely bent him over backwards during this whole ordeal.

His best play is: He sits out most of the year, pulls a Mendenhall - accrues a season - there isn't an organization out there that will blame him for what has happened this off season.

That last part does nothing to help the Browns, and keeping him around also provides a lot of scrutiny and attention and could be a major distraction. It's the same reason, in the same vein, of why they "mutually" agreed for him to skip the mini-camps. At this point - the best play for both parties is a separation.

I never said Baker wants to be here and, in fact, have said he likely does not want to be here. What you are saying is Baker is going to start behaving the exact opposite as he has since college (maybe even HS) and not believe in himself? Do you think Baker believes he can have a great season if given a chance?

Should you answer that with the obvious answer is he then better off playing and playing well or sitting out?

 

[dtgold88]

Unnamed sources huh? Okay.

From si-com: Browns willing to pay half of Baker Mayfield's salary for trade, per sources (6/18/22)

Appearing on the Rich Eisen Show si's Albert Beer (do you consider him an "unnamed source"?) said this.

"Cleveland's been willing to take on a fair amount of Baker's salary, like $9, $10 million. For people out there who think Cleveland's holding on to Baker As Deshaun insurance, they wouldn't be offering to take on a significant portion of the guy's salary if they were looking to hold him until there's more clarity in the Deshaun Watson case."

Hahaha. were you serious there? That is priceless.

Try and follow...Albert Breer is the reporter who I said has the easy job. He did not have anyone as a source and you ate it up.

Yes...ya gotta love this forum.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I never said Baker wants to be here and, in fact, have said he likely does not want to be here. What you are saying is Baker is going to start behaving the exact opposite as he has since college (maybe even HS) and not believe in himself? Do you think Baker believes he can have a great season if given a chance?

Should you answer that with the obvious answer is he then better off playing and playing well or sitting out?

Betting on yourself and believing you can achieve something isn't the same as looking at the odds of the situation and realizing that, no matter how you feel about yourself, the best play is the one that allows for the most likely outcome. It's hard on the ego, no doubt, but his best play is to sit.

It also forces the Browns hand, because if they know he's going to sit - keeping him in any fashion is a net negative.

 

[Cincyfan78]

we were talking about 2018 and 2020. want to say he's been inconsistent in his career I doubt anyone would disagree.

The Browns did exactly what they told the fans and Baker they were doing. Not sure what you think they should have done differently other than allow one of the other 4 teams to acquire watson.

all I can admit is media can get fans to believe whatever they want if it suits their agenda.

Here's my thinking, though - whether they truly told him, or not, becomes nearly irrelevant IMO...

You don't date a girl, keep her around while actively looking for an upgrade in hopes that if the upgrade falls through she still wants to be with you. They should have been actively seeking a trade and understanding that if they were to land Watson, their leverage nearly goes to zero because they will have 2 "starting" QB's on 1 team - and that can't work.

If they were going to go all-in on Watson, they should have simply traded Baker first - yes, could have been a risk if they didn't land Watson - but if they were going to guarantee his entire salary - they had to know that he was likely going to jump at that, one would think.

Anyway - TLDR version - They knew they were done with Mayfield, and should have been more willing to budge early on in trade talks instead of getting stuck with him with zero leverage.

 

[Manster7588]

Kind of thinking the reason I gave the "but" was needed.

As always I'll answer your question and say 25%.

Maybe you missed it, but can you answer the Q I asked you? Here it is again.....

are you not in agreement the Browns want Watson to not miss many games or even none at all? In addition, there is less (or even no need) to have Baker if watson isn't out long, correct?

Of course the don't want Watson to miss any games, but we know he will


As for Mayfield in Cleveland, at this point I think Cleveland wants him out even if the NFL hands down a season suspension today.

The Browns screwed up the whole thing from the beginning.

Maybe I missed it, but did the Browns ever try to repair the relationship with Mayfield prior to the Watson trade being finalized?

 

[YankeeRebel]

This is crazy. So it appears the league may seek a one year suspension, if I read thing correctly. The Browns really burned bridges with Baker who in all honesty while not Brady is not bad. Should Baker return the favor and spurn the Browns?

 

[dtgold88]

Betting on yourself and believing you can achieve something isn't the same as looking at the odds of the situation and realizing that, no matter how you feel about yourself, the best play is the one that allows for the most likely outcome. It's hard on the ego, no doubt, but his best play is to sit.

It also forces the Browns hand, because if they know he's going to sit - keeping him in any fashion is a net negative.

Once again, these were the questions posed....

What you are saying is Baker is going to start behaving the exact opposite as he has since college (maybe even HS) and not believe in himself? Do you think Baker believes he can have a great season if given a chance?

 

[Wamu]

Hahaha. were you serious there? That is priceless.

Try and follow...Albert Breer is the reporter who I said has the easy job. He did not have anyone as a source and you ate it up.

Yes...ya gotta love this forum.

So si-.com's an "unnamed source"? Whatever you say. That didn't come from some unknown social media account. Cary on man. You're one of kind.