Newsome/O'Cain/Stinespring/Beamer should be fired thread

[VTfoozball]

The Key Play analysis is respected by many VT fans including some on here. In the latest game breakdown of Clemson he takes a shot at Kevin Sherman. Just an FYI for the pro-Shermans on here. I'd like to be able to use replay and see what the WRs are doing every play. Probably would see plenty of lazy routes, very few double moves, poor blocking, potential receivers ending up in the same areas, and opposing DBs seemingly knowing the routes before they're run. But you know the main reason I have little faith in Sherman? He's a Frank Beamer offensive hire

 

[hunzworth]

being honest, I think MD and Dyrell have been lackluster in the effort category this year and that more than anything is making sherm look bad. IDK but maybe he should hhave sent a message earlier in the year.

 

[HoHumHokie]

Danny Coale was always open! Wasn't he coached by Sherman?

 

[robV703]

Danny Coale was always open! Wasn't he coached by Sherman?

If our receivers do well it's because they worked really hard and if they don't it's because of Sherman. Didn't you get that memo?

 

[VTfoozball]

I was watching a NFL game this weekend. Not sure who it was maybe the Broncos. On a 3rd and short they tried to run it and got stuffed. Do you think they tried again hoping for a miracle when everyone on the defense was packed close? No they have a playcaller who is not a stubborn dumbass and who knows what his team is capable of. They tried a pass and succeeded. And I know what you're thinking...but it does not take a Peyton Manning to complete a 2 yard pass. I think it would be amazing to see LT hit a wide open WR or TE on a play where VT typically runs it or sneaks 1000% of the time. But NOOO they've got to do things the stupid Beamer way at VT

 

[VTfoozball]

If our receivers do well it's because they worked really hard and if they don't it's because of Sherman. Didn't you get that memo?

With the way Davis and Roberts are playing this year and the fact that there are so few good Hokie WRs in the NFL and because of the general ineffectiveness of the VT offense over Beamer's tenure, I think the ENTIRE offensive staff should be looked at and questioned. I don't see anyone that is irreplaceable

 

[hokiegrad]

With the way Davis and Roberts are playing this year and the fact that there are so few good Hokie WRs in the NFL and because of the general ineffectiveness of the VT offense over Beamer's tenure, I think the ENTIRE offensive staff should be looked at and questioned. I don't see anyone that is irreplaceable

I don't disagree with your conclusion, but you're once again basing it on bad logic ("so few good Hokie WRs in the NFL"). How many teams have a lot of good WRs in the NFL? Or looking at it the other way... VT has 4 WRs in the NFL, more than any other position besides CB (also 4). So should all the defensive coaches get canned as well, using that logic?

 

[VTfoozball]

I don't disagree with your conclusion, but you're once again basing it on bad logic ("so few good Hokie WRs in the NFL"). How many teams have a lot of good WRs in the NFL? Or looking at it the other way... VT has 4 WRs in the NFL, more than any other position besides CB (also 4). So should all the defensive coaches get canned as well, using that logic?

That was just one of my reasons and you ignored the others. Okay let's turn it around. Since you are one of the Sherman supporters on here, can you give a reason why he should be kept? People on here just go out of their way to disagree with me and look stupid in the process.

"OMG Charles Clark is a super stud so quit badmouthing him Fooz!" That was BEFORE any film was out but everyone on here had such strong opinions anyway.

 

[hokiegrad]

That was just one of my reasons and you ignored the others.

I didn't ignore the others. I didn't call them out as bad logic, because they weren't. Just because someone disagrees with you on one point doesn't mean they disagree with you on everything. I even said that I agreed with your conclusion.

Okay let's turn it around. Since you are one of the Sherman supporters on here, can you give a reason why he should be kept? People on here just go out of their way to disagree with me and look stupid in the process.

As I said, I agreed with your conclusion. That includes Sherman. I have defended him some in the past, but I would not characterize myself as a Sherman supporter. There is a difference. Some of the criticism laid at his door has not been fair, and against that I will defend him, but plenty has been fair.

How am I looking stupid? When have you successfully refuted anything I've said?

"OMG Charles Clark is a super stud so quit badmouthing him Fooz!" That was BEFORE any film was out but everyone on here had such strong opinions anyway.

Where does this come from? I have not been giving you grief about Clark.

Look, forgive me. I should know better than to poke at you.

 

[sparko]

Is it on Sherman that Davis and Roberts haven't played well?? To an extent

Is it on Sherman that he's the greatest recruiter?? Yes

Should he be fired?? I'd say ... NO ... He's coached players to the league just fine, players who were receptive to coaching. Keep in mind that quite a few of these players weren't very highly rated coming out of high school.

The only way that he should go is if the entire offensive staff is canned (and that won't happen). There are several coaches on the O side that should go before Sherman

 

[hunzworth]

Since you are one of the Sherman supporters on here, can you give a reason why he should be kept? People on here just go out of their way to disagree with me and look stupid in the process.

-because he is a good WR's coach.

the reasons i feel that way:

-Big increase in WR production since he got here.

-The talent that he has been given is less than average but his guys produce.

-Because minus this year our WRs have a rep of doing things correctly both with and without the ball in their hands.

-Because he has consistently put guys in the league which wasnt the case before his arrival and prob isnt the case at most schools across the country.

My point is this our offense has problems and has had problems for many years, i would like to see changes made but removing Coach Sherman would be idiotic imo.

Now are there areas where he could improve? Yep, sure there are. I'd like to see him become a better recruiter and show more discipline when guys are slacking (this year is my only gripe with that). As far as recruiting goes, i think you will see us start to land more top tier WR's as shermans legacy grows, keep in mind that he has only been here since '06.

 

[VTfoozball]

"Look, forgive me. I should know better than to poke at you"

I forgive you my son

 

[VTfoozball]

All I will say is that I'm not attached to him and would not worry if he was fired. I agree that there are at least 3 bigger problems on offense

 

[hunzworth]

BTW VT and GT are tied at 2nd for most WR's in the league:

BC:0 Clem:1 Duke:0 FSU:2 GT:4 MD:3 UM:10 UNC:3 NCst:2 WhoVa:1 VT:4 WF:1

 

[Ragingcroc]

I agree with Hunz but if we ever do an offense staff overall (good joke I know), I think we have to give the freedom to the new offensive coordinator to hire who he wants and not shackle him to existing staff.

 

[hunzworth]

I agree with Hunz but if we ever do an offense staff overall (good joke I know), I think we have to give the freedom to the new offensive coordinator to hire who he wants and not shackle him to existing staff.

I cant disagree with that but i can also see the reason why you would want to keep a few peices of the staff also.

Not saying that i agree or disagree with this but i think stiney has a job as long as frank is around.

 

[hunzworth]

My honest feeling about our offensive staff is as followes:

-Stinespring: Great recruiter especially in Va because he is so "dug in". As an offensive coordinator I dont mind his X's and O's as much as the fact that he has no "feel" for playcalling (he draw a play up but doesnt know when to call it). I honestly think he over-thinks a lot of situations and tries to 'trick' the other team instead of attack them. Imo he would be more of an asset if given a position (OL or just TE) and focused more on recruiting.

-Shane: Great recruiter. TBD as a RB coach.

- Newsome: he blows.

- Ocain: I think our QB's have progressed under his watch (tyrod and LT) and i blame LT's struggle more on a combination of off season workouts, some mental things from him, and being surrounded by a lot of new faces. I thought he did a good job calling the plays last year and wonder if stiney being back in the box this season means he is having more input on the playcalling. Overall im indifferent about OCain if we bring in a new OC and he wants to replace him that would be OK by me but if he is around next season im cool with that also.

-Sherman: my thoughts are pretty obvious. Sherm has consistently done more with less than any other position coach we have. The numbers dont lie. Basically everyone who has played significant minutes since he has been here has been given a shot at playing in the nfl. The numbers that Coale and Boykin put up individually while playing on the same team tell me all i need to know. Like i said before, Yep there are things Sherm could do better but he isnt the prob with our offense.

 

[VTfoozball]

Tonight's game was more evidence that O'Cain should go. You should never have a player regress as much as Lt has under your watch. Have they or have they not taken all responsibility of play calling away from LT and he STILL can't hit the broad side of a barn?

 

[MattB4VT]

When will frank hang it up? And will it take him being done for the offensive staff to get axed?

 

[wildturkey]

When will frank hang it up? And will it take him being done for the offensive staff to get axed?

If he doesn't fire some people after this season then we should give up all hope of moving forward as a program as long as Beamer is still HC.