Keep 'em, Cut 'em, Re-Sign 'em, or Let 'Em Walk?

[Old Lion]

Bell and Carey must be resigned. They can play in any scheme. The rest will depend on who we get for coaches.

I thought Rugland had potential. He will need some work, but resigning Hanson for 1 year ad work with him. 3 Kickers is hard to swallow, but not sure Rugland is ready.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Lions are about $3m over the 2014 projected cap number with 48 players under contract of the 61 players that ultimately count against the number (which includes the practice squad).

So before you start talking about who you are going to resign you need to start with who you are going to cut and find the $ to do so. The most obvious is Delmas. There isnt a chance in the world that he is coming back with a cap hit of $6.5m. He will be cut, the Lions will eat $500k of dead money and save $6m.

Burleson may very well be back, but absolutely not at the current contract he has. Like he did last year he will have to take another pay cut. He played for $2m this season and quite frankly thats the max he will get again next season. He still has just a little more than $2m in dead money on his deal so short of cutting him after June 1 so they can defer that into a $1m dead hit over the next two years its going to cost the Lions the same amount whether they keep him or cut him, so expect him back. At a $2m salary we would save $5.5m.

The only other obvious cut is Leroy Harris. Who? is what many of you are probably saying. He's a veteran backup o-lineman we carried this year. He wasnt costly at all this year but we can save $1.95m by cutting him before next season, which is a virtual certainty.

Those cuts only saved about $13.5m and we were already over the cap by $3m. So you have a little more than $10m of space but 16 more players needed to sign, and that includes guys like Bell, Carey, Young, etc if you want them back.

We will soon know whether or not Suh wants to be in Detroit long term. If the Lions cant agree to an extension with him then the answer is a big fat no. Given that he is only set to be paid $15m over the next two years it really shouldnt be a problem to get done unless he wants out when his contract is up in two years. The one snag could be that he is looking at a new contract worth less than his original contract. He is already the highest paid DT in the game at close to a $13.1m avg, with Gerald McCoy being second at $12.8m. Both of them are still under their rookie deals from the old rookie pay scale. Ngata and Atkins are next at $9.7m and $9.1m. Getting a new 5yr, $50m dollar with the most guarenteed money for Suh should not be difficult at all, unless he doesnt want to be a long term Lion. I've looked at his current deal and because Lewand is so fucking stupid to just keep on shoving backwards the dead money hits he counts $9.8m before he is even paid a salary. However, the new deal should easily be able to save at least $7m and could be even higher.

Then it gets into a really gray area. $17m is simply not enough of created space. Rookies will gobble up about $5.5m of that for maybe 5 players. You still have 11 players to sign and only $12m, and that still doesnt include the guys you wanted to resign. There are always about 6 one year deals on vets signed. Figure another $5m there. Still have 5 open spots but only $6m. This is what you have to work with as you try and resign those players. BTW, does anybody want to sign any FA's? Gotta find more $ if you do.

 

[gandydancer]

Some have expressed that trade or not resign Suh. I blame the lack of sacks and production from Suh on Gunther and his lack of blitzing. You hear commentators talk of teams putting pressure with just their front four. I disagree with that. Those teams blitz a good amount and show the presence of a blitz and back out into coverage a lot also. When you only rush four the blocking calls are status quo. The defense is just as vanilla as the offense in Detroit. Then the arguement of the DB's can't cover so we don't blitz to me is BS. IMO our DB's get burned more from rushing four and not blitzing. I see QB's leave the pocket from it being collapsed and making plays. While to me the 5th or 6th guy would make the sack or hurry.

So long story short. Suh needs to be singed long term. Suh, Fairley, Ziggy and the emerging Taylor need to be long term youth together.

 

[gandydancer]

So before you start talking about who you are going to resign you need to start with who you are going to cut and find the $ to do so.

Then it gets into a really gray area. $17m is simply not enough of created space. Rookies will gobble up about $5.5m of that for maybe 5 players. You still have 11 players to sign and only $12m, and that still doesnt include the guys you wanted to resign. There are always about 6 one year deals on vets signed. Figure another $5m there. Still have 5 open spots but only $6m. This is what you have to work with as you try and resign those players. BTW, does anybody want to sign any FA's? Gotta find more $ if you do.

Great post!! Thanks.
How much does AKers count in dead money if he is cut? How much dead money is out there this year?

Yes I want some FA's signed, but I can't start to think about that until I see a new staff and see who may paly to strength of said new regime. Like Bush on paper made great sense in this offense. His fumbles did not.

 

[jdwills126]

Shaun Hill, David Aikers, Dom Raiola, Jason Fox, and Don Carey are all FA.

Cutting Delmas, Mikhel LeShoure, Burleson, and Ashlee Palmer would save about 8.1 million. Four players the Lions can replace for less than that. The Lions will definitely need to hit in the draft on some mid round guys like they did with Warford.

 

[jdwills126]

Sports Contracts, Salaries, Caps, Bonuses, & Transactions | Spotrac.com

address I got my info at.

 

[broncosmitty]

Some have expressed that trade or not resign Suh. I blame the lack of sacks and production from Suh on Gunther and his lack of blitzing. You hear commentators talk of teams putting pressure with just their front four. I disagree with that. Those teams blitz a good amount and show the presence of a blitz and back out into coverage a lot also. When you only rush four the blocking calls are status quo. The defense is just as vanilla as the offense in Detroit. Then the arguement of the DB's can't cover so we don't blitz to me is BS. IMO our DB's get burned more from rushing four and not blitzing. I see QB's leave the pocket from it being collapsed and making plays. While to me the 5th or 6th guy would make the sack or hurry.

So long story short. Suh needs to be singed long term. Suh, Fairley, Ziggy and the emerging Taylor need to be long term youth together.

Suh needs to be what this team is built around for the next five, six maybe seven years. There needs to be a hire that's made for Staffs progression but this franchise should be centered on a player that wears #90 not #9. What Suh is capable of as a defensive tackle is more than at an elite level. It's game changing he's truely a franchise player.

 

[gandydancer]

Suh needs to be what this team is built around for the next five, six maybe seven years. There needs to be a hire that's made for Staffs progression but this franchise should be centered on a player that wears #90 not #9. What Suh is capable of as a defensive tackle is more than at an elite level. It's game changing he's truely a franchise player.

Spot on Smitty. I am always and will be defense first kinda guy. NFL has changed to pass first league so most feel you have to have elite QB first.

Last 5 SB's elite QB 2 W elite QB's 3 L that is if you put Brees in elite class. The guy can not win outside a dome. SO...

 

[gandydancer]

Shaun Hill, David Aikers, Dom Raiola, Jason Fox, and Don Carey are all FA.

Thanks. I thought Akers was a 2 year deal. Thanks for site.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Shaun Hill, David Aikers, Dom Raiola, Jason Fox, and Don Carey are all FA.

Cutting Delmas, Mikhel LeShoure, Burleson, and Ashlee Palmer would save about 8.1 million. Four players the Lions can replace for less than that. The Lions will definitely need to hit in the draft on some mid round guys like they did with Warford.

Burleson and Delmas alone save $11.5m. Not sure why the hatred on Palmer from so many though. He is solid special teams player and a respectable back up LB. He is by no means expensive and every team is filled with players just like him. IMO he is retained.

 

[jdwills126]

Burleson and Delmas alone save $11.5m. Not sure why the hatred on Palmer from so many though. He is solid special teams player and a respectable back up LB. He is by no means expensive and every team is filled with players just like him. IMO he is retained.

I deducted the dead money from the total. So the difference in total vs what the hit would actually be.

Palmers is a good special teams guy and backup. But when you are cutting cost a guy that makes what he does for what he does can be found cheaper, IMO.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Brandon Pettigrew TE UFA DET TBD 28 $3,470,000-

Keep him. Good in-line TE, blocks extremely well, decent check-down option in the passing game. Not a star by any stretch, so he should come at a reasonable price tag, as I don't see him commanding any sort of big $$ in free agency. Not the 1st round talent we all hoped for, but versatile piece for any offensive coordinator to have around. I know a lot of people want to see him gone because he hasn't lived up to expectations, but that draft pick has long-since been used, and at least he's still a productive member of the team...

Shaun Hill QB UFA DET TBD 33 $3,250,000

- I'm 50/50 on Hill- I'd love to see him back at the right price, but he may get better offers than we're willing to match. If he leaves it's very important, imo, to find another capable veteran back-up of Hill's caliber.

Dominic Raiola C UFA DET TBD 34 $3,012,500

- Can't stand the guy, but he played very well this year, and would come cheaper than comparable caliber players. I'd say keep him aboard for another year or two and develop Rodney Austin as our future center.

Willie Young DE UFA DET TBD 28 $1,500,000

- Bring him back for sure. Very capable #3 DE/spot-starter. Has gotten better every year and was pretty damn solid this year. We could do a lot wose with our rotational guys.

Jason Fox RT, T UFA DET TBD 25 $1,323,000

- See ya buddy. Good talent, but he hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy at all.

John Wendling S UFA DET TBD 30 $938,333

- Bring him back. Best special-teamer we've got, and one of the very best in the league, for that matter. He's cheap and makes an impact in nearly every game.

Leroy Harris C UFA DET TBD 29 $937,500

- Later Lee-Roy. Thanks for being a decent back-up option this year.

Don Carey S UFA DET TBD 26 $680,000

- Bring him back!!! Made some damn fine plays in the slot for us, and we're thin in the secondary. He should be a no-brainer given that he's still pretty young and can play nickel as well as safety. Versatile young DBs don't grow on trees...

Joique Bell RB RFA DET TBD 27 $630,000

- Obviously.

David Akers K UFA DET TBD 39 $620,000

- I'll personally pay for his plane ticket wherever he needs to go if they cut him asap.

Dylan Gandy G UFA DET TBD 31 $620,000

- Thanks for the memories, Dill...

Israel Idonije DE UFA DET TBD 33 $620,000

- Later I.I., thanks for letting us all down this year with the worst season if your career.

Don Muhlbach LS UFA DET TBD 32 $620,000

- Bring him back. We'll need a long snapper, and he's a good one. Case closed, imo.

Kris Durham WR RFA DET TBD 25 $555,000

- Bring him back. Good depth receiver who took a big step forward this year.

Rashean Mathis CB UFA DET TBD 33 $555,000-

Bring him back, too. Good short-term veteran option at CB. As long as his price is good he's a good option to have back there.

Rocky McIntosh OLB, LB UFA DET TBD 31 $555,000

- Later homie.

Kevin Ogletree WR UFA DET TBD 26 $546,765

- Bring him back, at least for training camp. He's got wheels and we need help at WR still. Let him come in and compete, and if he doesn't stick, oh well, nothing lost.

Andre Fluellen DT UFA DET TBD 28 $457,059

- Another 50/50 for me. I won't be hurt if we lose him, but he's a decent depth player who can play DE and DT. Not crucial in the least to being him back, though.

Jeremy Ross WR ERFA DET TBD 25 $310,588

- Definitely bring him back, no questions asked.

Dorin Dickerson FB UFA DET TBD 25 $195,882

- Bring him back, too. One of the fastest H-backs in the league (probably THE fastest, in fact) and we don't have anyone else at that position. Very versatile player.

Julian Stanford OLB, LB RFA DET TBD 23 $112,941

- Who? Exactly.

Micheal Spurlock WR UFA DET TBD 30 $84,117

- Put him in Aker's luggage wherever he's flying to.

Ogemdi Nwaguo DT UFA DET TBD 28

- I couldn't tell you who this is, and that kind of says something.


Basically I think most of these guys should be brought back to training camp next year so the new staff can sort out who they'd like to keep. A lot of these guys are the role-player types who fill in the cracks that hold good teams together. Lot's of "B-"/"C+" level talent listed here, so none of them should cost very much...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Before any player is let go or signed, we gotta take care of the elephant in the room. Does Schwartz stay or go? I say bye-bye. Hire a new head coach, early. Then the players can be addressed.

I'm operating under the assumption that he's gone. If not it really doesn't matter who we keep or cut, as next season will be just another wasted year under a staff that's over their heads...

 

[Rollingthndr]

Suh needs to be what this team is built around for the next five, six maybe seven years. There needs to be a hire that's made for Staffs progression but this franchise should be centered on a player that wears #90 not #9. What Suh is capable of as a defensive tackle is more than at an elite level. It's game changing he's truely a franchise player.

This is a great post.
Re-sign Willie Young and Carey as a backup, draft a S and SLB in the first two rounds.

When asked if Stafford would work with a QB guru this off-season "That's not my thing" explained Stafford. Forget drafting WR's to make this guy look good anymore. I'll draft around Suh with his elite work ethic all day. Staff can continue to throw to his buddy Durham, good luck with that.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Lions are about $3m over the 2014 projected cap number with 48 players under contract of the 61 players that ultimately count against the number (which includes the practice squad).

So before you start talking about who you are going to resign you need to start with who you are going to cut and find the $ to do so.

Not this again!

I thought you would have learned your lesson this year when, after all your gloom-and-doom talk about how bad of shape we were in cap-wise, we still signed all the free agent targets we were after.

The cap is far more fluid than the $120 whatever million number they throw out there. Teams have to dump over-priced veterans, like Delmas as you mentioned, but being up against the cap is just a reality in today's game. Player contracts are far out-pacing cap growth, so until something is done about that our cap situations is always going to look pretty bad.

If we were able to sign Bush, Quin, Jones, Idonije, etc... this offseason while being $20some million over the cap, then we should be in great shape at only $3 million over...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Re-sign Willie Young and Carey as a backup, draft a S and SLB in the first two rounds.

We have to get out of this "3 starting linebackers" mind-set as a fan-base. The nickel CB already plays significantly more snaps over the course of the season as it is, and it's only going to continue to trend further that way as teams keep passing the ball more than ever before. Guys like Ashlee Palmer are cheap and effect in there role as a two-down, run-stopping, OLB. They're not out there on 3rd down, and are out there less and less on 2nd and 3rd down.

I'm fine with drafting another LB, but it's certainly not a pressing need, imo. We have two very good starting LBs, and we only start two LBs. I also think that Whitehead has a lot of potential as a pass-rushing OLB, so I wouldn't go writing him off just yet.

 

[tpaulus_2]

The most obvious is Delmas. There isnt a chance in the world that he is coming back with a cap hit of $6.5m. He will be cut, the Lions will eat $500k of dead money and save $6m.

I'd be fine with that move. Delmas is as much of a liability on the field as an asset. No discipline, marginal ball skills at best. I'd pay him no more than $3.5 million per season.

Burleson may very well be back, but absolutely not at the current contract he has. Like he did last year he will have to take another pay cut. He played for $2m this season and quite frankly thats the max he will get again next season. He still has just a little more than $2m in dead money on his deal so short of cutting him after June 1 so they can defer that into a $1m dead hit over the next two years its going to cost the Lions the same amount whether they keep him or cut him, so expect him back. At a $2m salary we would save $5.5m.

Yep, makes sense to me. Given the dead money and our lack of depth at WR he's a good bet to return, although I won't be crushed if he's phased-out by younger, more talented talent.

The only other obvious cut is Leroy Harris. Who? is what many of you are probably saying. He's a veteran backup o-lineman we carried this year. He wasnt costly at all this year but we can save $1.95m by cutting him before next season, which is a virtual certainty.

Later Leroy. No-brainer cut, imo.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Burleson and Delmas alone save $11.5m. Not sure why the hatred on Palmer from so many though. He is solid special teams player and a respectable back up LB. He is by no means expensive and every team is filled with players just like him. IMO he is retained.

Thank You!!!

Palmer is perfect for what he is- a part-time starter, full time special-teamer. Sure, drafting a better option to fill the 3rd LB spot makes us better, and I'm fine if that's the direction they go, but overall it's a very minor need.

Think of it this way- if 3 or more WRs are on the field, Palmer (or whomever the 3rd LB is) is not on the field. Now think how often you saw 3 and 4 WR sets this year. The nickel has been our primary defense for at least 4 years in a row for (that I could find the data on) and that's not unique to the Lions one single bit. The reality is that the 4-3 defense really should now be called a 4-2, or a 4-2-6.

As I mentioned above, I like Whitehead's pass-rushing potential, and I think, given the new nature of that position, that we should be looking at specialist-LBs for that 3rd spot. One who can get after the passer, one who is a coverage specialist, and one who is a run-stopper (all 3 better be good on special teams, though). Then tailor different personnel packages to each player's strengths and away you go. "Specialist" types who don't have a complete game are often available later in the draft, or on the free agent market, and can still play a valuable role if used correctly (and situationally)...

 

[Microwahevo]

Don Muhlbach LS UFA DET TBD 32 $620,000

How awesome would it be to be a long snapper in the NFL? Dues job isn't tremendously hard and 'ol Donny boy is making 600k a yr. doesn't risk much injury bc people can't line up right in front of them. That's a money job to have IMO.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Not this again!

I thought you would have learned your lesson this year when, after all your gloom-and-doom talk about how bad of shape we were in cap-wise, we still signed all the free agent targets we were after.

The cap is far more fluid than the $120 whatever million number they throw out there. Teams have to dump over-priced veterans, like Delmas as you mentioned, but being up against the cap is just a reality in today's game. Player contracts are far out-pacing cap growth, so until something is done about that our cap situations is always going to look pretty bad.

If we were able to sign Bush, Quin, Jones, Idonije, etc... this offseason while being $20some million over the cap, then we should be in great shape at only $3 million over...

First off, we were never $20m over the cap in the offseason. I don't know where you even came up with that number.

Second, they got the money to sign the FA's last season by doing the all too famous Lewand move of restructuring to push back money further and sign each of those guys to low cap hit deals in the first year that all ramp up big time in the years that follow. Quin, Bush, and Jones counted $5.9m against the cap in 2013. They are $12.7m this year.

There is always room to maneuver with the salary cap. But that comes with consequences, see the Raiders and Pittsburgh as great examples. Eventually you can't push that dead money back any further and you can't restructure. You can do enough to get under the cap but not much else. How quickly you've forgotten the offseason following our playoff appearance. Who exactly did we sign to improve the team??? Answer.......nobody. Absolutely nobody. That's what the cap dictated. It wasn't that there weren't obvious needs but we couldn't afford to address them.

Once you get through the basics of rounding out the roster, that being the rookie deals and the one year veteran contracts there won't be much left, and there won't even be that if they don't get Suh extended. Feel free to look at the numbers yourself and solve the puzzle. It's actually a nice little brain teaser. Before you just assume that we can pretty much do whatever we want and bring this guy or that guy back you need to know if that's even possible.

There are other moves the team could make to free up some additional space. Check out the lower dead money amounts on the contracts of higher cap hit players. That is where you would have to cut, restructure, or extend. That is where it gets very interesting.