Keep 'em, Cut 'em, Re-Sign 'em, or Let 'Em Walk?

[gandydancer]

I'm operating under the assumption that he's gone. If not it really doesn't matter who we keep or cut, as next season will be just another wasted year under a staff that's over their heads...

Stop being a realist. Stay within yourself please...I can't take all this negativity from you!!

 

[Old Lion]

Thank You!!!

Palmer is perfect for what he is- a part-time starter, full time special-teamer. Sure, drafting a better option to fill the 3rd LB spot makes us better, and I'm fine if that's the direction they go, but overall it's a very minor need.

Think of it this way- if 3 or more WRs are on the field, Palmer (or whomever the 3rd LB is) is not on the field. Now think how often you saw 3 and 4 WR sets this year. The nickel has been our primary defense for at least 4 years in a row for (that I could find the data on) and that's not unique to the Lions one single bit. The reality is that the 4-3 defense really should now be called a 4-2, or a 4-2-6.

...

Agreed. I think you mean 4-2-5. Would be nice to have 12 out there, but the refs frown upon that, LOL.

That is why guys like Carey are so important. He tackles like a LB and covers like a DB. Unfortunately you need at least 2 Safeties (or even a big CB) to run that. Quin can be the centerfield safety as that spot does not require much run stopping. Delmas is a big problem though. He hits hard but really is not a consistent tackler and cant cover very well either. I think maybe putting Mathis in that spot and getting another CB is the way to go. Alterraun Verner anyone (I doubt we could afford him though)?

 

[gandydancer]

Alterraun Verner anyone (I doubt we could afford him though)?

He is right on the cusp of being considered elite. He may have blossoming one year too late to really hit big payday. Still feel he will be too much for Lions to afford though.

 

[Rollingthndr]

We have to get out of this "3 starting linebackers" mind-set as a fan-base. The nickel CB already plays significantly more snaps over the course of the season as it is, and it's only going to continue to trend further that way as teams keep passing the ball more than ever before. Guys like Ashlee Palmer are cheap and effect in there role as a two-down, run-stopping, OLB. They're not out there on 3rd down, and are out there less and less on 2nd and 3rd down.

I'm fine with drafting another LB, but it's certainly not a pressing need, imo. We have two very good starting LBs, and we only start two LBs. I also think that Whitehead has a lot of potential as a pass-rushing OLB, so I wouldn't go writing him off just yet.

First off, what if Levy or Tulloch get hurt? Look at the backups, Whitehead,Travis Lewis, McIntosh? That doesn't scare you?
Also, Ashlee Palmer would be a backup on a lot of defenses and probably not even make the team on some of the upper echelon defenses. Might of noticed him twice all season. Imagine replacing him with a guy like A. Barr or Khalil Mack who a creative D-coordinator could send in on blitzes.

To be honest, I just want a player in the back 7 that can improve the defense. We need to sign Suh to an extension, make him our centerpiece and build around him. Tired of giving Stafford more "toys" and then hear he doesn't have the work ethic to be better.

 

[tpaulus_2]

First off, what if Levy or Tulloch get hurt? Look at the backups, Whitehead,Travis Lewis, McIntosh? That doesn't scare you?

You're looking at the current backups, not who will be around next year. McIntosh is a goner, and Travis Lewis will have a hard time making the roster as well, I would think. I'm fine with Whitehead as a back-up, as he has better size and athleticism than any of the other LBs we have. I'm fine with adding a guy or two, I just don't think it needs to be a big priority is all.

Also, Ashlee Palmer would be a backup on a lot of defenses and probably not even make the team on some of the upper echelon defenses.

He's basically a back-up on our defense, doesn't mean he doesn't fit the role that he's asked to play.

Might of noticed him twice all season. Imagine replacing him with a guy like A. Barr or Khalil Mack who a creative D-coordinator could send in on blitzes.

Sounds good in theory, but wouldn't a DB who is going to be on the field far more make a better impact? I'd love Barr, but he's not lasting into the second round, imo, and it makes zero sense to use our 1st round pick on a part-time defender.

To be honest, I just want a player in the back 7 that can improve the defense. We need to sign Suh to an extension, make him our centerpiece and build around him. Tired of giving Stafford more "toys" and then hear he doesn't have the work ethic to be better.

My point exactly- how much is another talented LB going to improve the defense? He's not going to edge Tulloch or Levy out of any playing time. His chance to make a real impact would be very limited. We've been cursed with injuries at DB going on forever now, I vote we load up on DBs early in this draft. We have some promising young players, but phasing out guys like Delmas, Houston, and Mathis would be ideal, if we could collect enough young talent to do it without getting even worse in the process...

Don't get me wrong- a guy like Barr would be sweet, it's just a matter of where and how we'd use him. I certainly wouldn't be disappointed if he somehow slid to the middle of the 2nd round and we snapped him up...

 

[Rollingthndr]

My point exactly- how much is another talented LB going to improve the defense? He's not going to edge Tulloch or Levy out of any playing time. His chance to make a real impact would be very limited. We've been cursed with injuries at DB going on forever now, I vote we load up on DBs early in this draft. We have some promising young players, but phasing out guys like Delmas, Houston, and Mathis would be ideal, if we could collect enough young talent to do it without getting even worse in the process..

.

This Sunday should be a good game to check out how Slay and Greenwood match up with Jennings and emerging stud Patterson. You can never have enough good DB's and drafting a couple early would make me happy. As long as it's in the back 7. The only offensive player I would want over them is Greg Robinson of Auburn. So dominant.

 

[LPinSLC]

That's part of the defenses problem. The offense brings out additional receiving targets and we just match up with our coverage unit. You get an offense in 3rd and long and we don't blitz. Hell, more often then not we run a 3 man rus, give the opposing QB enough time to wait until the coverage fails. We have needed a linebacker that can blitz for as long as I can remember. If you only blitz with your safety you become predictable.

I look forward to change. I hope to see some intracacies on defense that we can be in awe over. Predictability has been the Lions on both sides of the ball.

 

[Old Lion]

That's part of the defenses problem. The offense brings out additional receiving targets and we just match up with our coverage unit. You get an offense in 3rd and long and we don't blitz. Hell, more often then not we run a 3 man rus, give the opposing QB enough time to wait until the coverage fails. We have needed a linebacker that can blitz for as long as I can remember. If you only blitz with your safety you become predictable.

I look forward to change. I hope to see some intracacies on defense that we can be in awe over. Predictability has been the Lions on both sides of the ball.

I agree with this and add:

I don't think Tulloch has been very good in coverage so we could certainly use a young LB who can fill that role. Levy can also run this defense so I don't think we will need to rely on Tulloch for too much longer. He makes a lot of tackles but seldomly at the line of scrimmage and does not defend the pass well. He was being used as a blitzer last year and was fairly efficient at it. For some reason they abandoned it this year.

 

[jdwills126]

Ashlee Palmer has 24 tackles and 8 assist so far this season. Thats 8 more than last year and 16 more than the previous year. He has never had an interception and has 1 sack for his career!

He gets 1.25 million my guess is that production can be replaced.

OK why all the Ashlee Palmer hate! I don't hate the guy but he has never been what you call productive. WHy all the love the guy is a career backup that is always looking to be replaced.

It isn't as if he was stuck behind Von Miller or just super LBs. The Lions are an average defensive unit with some strengths and weaknesses. If I thought he had mad raw talent like Ansah I say great but he is a Journeymen.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Still haven't had time to dive into this, but the wife is gone all weekend, so I should have plenty of time to get 'er done up...


In the mean time I've got a free agent target in mind:


SIGN FREAKING JASON HANSON BACK!!!!


He's said recently that he can still kick in the NFL and the reason he left was that he didn't want to play for the veteran minimum he was being offered. So, after this season of Akers making us all go insane I vote we give Hanson vet minimum +50% to kick for another year for us and also sign Rugland to the practice squad to keep developing for the future...

Well, well, well. First schwartz and now hanson. Ugh, it was so disrespectful the way they handled his negotiations in the offseason. He retired because they were being asshats, not some injury.

 

[gandydancer]

I think, given the new nature of that position, that we should be looking at specialist-LBs for that 3rd spot. One who can get after the passer, one who is a coverage specialist, and one who is a run-stopper (all 3 better be good on special teams, though). Then tailor different personnel packages to each player's strengths and away you go. "Specialist" types who don't have a complete game are often available later in the draft, or on the free agent market, and can still play a valuable role if used correctly (and situationally)...

I would not want to give up 3 roster spots there. I know you have backups and usually they are special teamers. I would be looking more for guy who can step in if a starter gets hurt. I do realize if a guy does all 3 he is a starter somewhere. IMO the LB needs to cover first in pass first league. WHat kills me with Palmer is he seems to take wrong angles or is out of position at times. So I feel specialist should be more in the mold of poor mans starter than a one trick pony. Three spots are taken already in Mulbach, Wendling and #2 QB. Ross might finally be a return guy who contributes on offense. To many ponies already.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I would not want to give up 3 roster spots there.

I don't understand, I guess?

We keep no less than 6 LBs on the roster anyhow, so having the "3rd" LB essentially being a rotation of 3 different players as needed wouldn't cost us any more roster spots...

 

[gandydancer]

I don't understand, I guess?

We keep no less than 6 LBs on the roster anyhow, so having the "3rd" LB essentially being a rotation of 3 different players as needed wouldn't cost us any more roster spots...

My point was...if Levy or Tulloch go down. Who steps in? Rotate all 3 on certain downs??? I know we keep six. I want a guy who can fill shoes not a certain down.

Now if you meant that the 4th 5th and 6th guy are situational. I might be okay with that. That 3rd and 4th to me needs to be a mix of all of them. Not a specialist and to me Palmer is not.

 

[broncosmitty]

With John Potter(BroncoPotter) being signed Im confident Akers is gone. (I was confident anyways)

 

[gandydancer]

With John Potter(BroncoPotter) being signed Im confident Akers is gone. (I was confident anyways)

Dan Carpenter FA was second fiddle to Dustin Hopkins in camp. Then Hopkins the rookie was placed on IR. He was rock solid all season for the Bills. 33-36 50+ was 4-6. Anything to keep Akers gone.

Not really right thread. no FA thread out there yet.

 

[Naughtymax]

Thank You!!!

Palmer is perfect for what he is- a part-time starter, full time special-teamer. Sure, drafting a better option to fill the 3rd LB spot makes us better, and I'm fine if that's the direction they go, but overall it's a very minor need.

Think of it this way- if 3 or more WRs are on the field, Palmer (or whomever the 3rd LB is) is not on the field. Now think how often you saw 3 and 4 WR sets this year. The nickel has been our primary defense for at least 4 years in a row for (that I could find the data on) and that's not unique to the Lions one single bit. The reality is that the 4-3 defense really should now be called a 4-2, or a 4-2-6.

As I mentioned above, I like Whitehead's pass-rushing potential, and I think, given the new nature of that position, that we should be looking at specialist-LBs for that 3rd spot. One who can get after the passer, one who is a coverage specialist, and one who is a run-stopper (all 3 better be good on special teams, though). Then tailor different personnel packages to each player's strengths and away you go. "Specialist" types who don't have a complete game are often available later in the draft, or on the free agent market, and can still play a valuable role if used correctly (and situationally)...

TPaul has found the solution for 2014. If the Lions can just play a 4-2-6 defense all year the team will definitely have a decent defense with no need for free agents.

 

[Mebert]

I am not sold on Keeping Pettigrew, Michael Williams is all blocking, I think he provides what BP added for blocking, without taking snaps from Fauria on receiving.

 

[LPinSLC]

I am not sold on Keeping Pettigrew, Michael Williams is all blocking, I think he provides what BP added for blocking, without taking snaps from Fauria on receiving.

Jake Murphy declared. Scouts have him in the 3rd-5th range. I wouldn't mind seeing Pett gone and grabbing him if he fell to late 4th or 5th round. I'd keep Pettigrew if he'd sign for cheap, he has been great as a blocking TE.

 

[Mebert]

I am still crying about Jake Murphy's broken wrist. I am a huge fan of his game though.

He is projected 3-5 even though he is 25? Age normally kills draft stock.