Joey Bosa to the Titans

[ATL96Steeler]

To me it is more what you see in the effort side of things. Clowney by far probably the most athletic player I have ever seen for his size/weight combination. Bosa does not quite match up athletically (although still very athletic in his own right). With Bosa I just don't have the red flags of a guy who has quit on his team. Again when Clowney has been healthy and played he has actually done decent in the NFL. His problem is he hasn't been on the field a whole lot. I guess I just don't worry about that with Bosa. I see him being willing to play hurt like many of the top players in the league do.

As for this year Bosa definitely has taken on a lot more double teams as teams have worked to eliminate him from the game. What I like though is he seems to have figured it out a bit more as the season has progressed. He has found ways to impact the game even while being double teamed most plays.

I agree this guy was the Karl Malone of DEs...great size, great athletic ability...never really had to develop much technique because he was just that much better than the guy playing across from him...the whole thing about him quitting on the team was disappointing, but he had just watched his teammate, a sure fire top 10 draft pick blow out his knee right before he was going to go in the draft in his Jr yr....not an excuse, but they had to weigh on the kid when he knows his HC makes $4 or $5 mil a yr and his opportunity to get his is right around the corner...tough not to be selfish.

We've talked about ill fitted draft picks or in our case a FA pickup...Clowney was a protypical 4-3 DE his entire CFB career, but HOU was 3-4 team...he's athletic enough to cover, he's come on better this year as you said as an OLB, but imo, that's a big mental adjustment covering space at the highest level of the game if you've never done it before. I could be wrong, but I'm not sure if he ever lives up to a #1 overall...very doubtful as a OLB.

I'm not sure Bosa could make the transition. If I were going to take him I would play him on the DL.

 

[cdumler7]

I agree this guy was the Karl Malone of DEs...great size, great athletic ability...never really had to develop much technique because he was just that much better than the guy playing across from him...the whole thing about him quitting on the team was disappointing, but he had just watched his teammate, a sure fire top 10 draft pick blow out his knee right before he was going to go in the draft in his Jr yr....not an excuse, but they had to weigh on the kid when he knows his HC makes $4 or $5 mil a yr and his opportunity to get his is right around the corner...tough not to be selfish.

We've talked about ill fitted draft picks or in our case a FA pickup...Clowney was a protypical 4-3 DE his entire CFB career, but HOU was 3-4 team...he's athletic enough to cover, he's come on better this year as you said as an OLB, but imo, that's a big mental adjustment covering space at the highest level of the game if you've never done it before. I could be wrong, but I'm not sure if he ever lives up to a #1 overall...very doubtful as a OLB.

I'm not sure Bosa could make the transition. If I were going to take him I would play him on the DL.

Agree. I do understand Clowney wanting to protect himself. Heck we are seeing more and more college kids making similar decisions. No reason to blow out your knee the last few games of your college career and lose millions in the process. My issues with him were more effort on the field. He could have completely taken over every game but there were plenty of games he just decided to take it easy other than a few plays. Bosa I don't see that being his issue.

I also agree that him being drafted for a 3-4 team was a huge mistake. I remember telling you back then that I thought Mack was a better choice not only in effort wise but scheme wise. So far he has shown to be the best play from that draft.

As for Bosa I agree he will not be an OLB. He will either get drafted to a 4-3 team and play a hybrid DE/DT role or by a 3-4 team and be asked to put on about 10-15 pounds and try to play the DE spot. I can't see him being the type of guy to play in space and I don't think he has the speed to make it from the OLB spot. I see him as a Michael Bennett for Seattle type guy.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Just looking at some stats. Teams in the top-10 for total defense only 2 of them have a losing record. Those are Tennessee and Dallas. If we extend that to scoring defense every team in the top-10 has a winning record right now. Considering only 15 teams in the league have a winning record right now I think that should show that a great defense can lead to very good things. And like you said it is not only about having quality starters but having quality back ups as well. Getting Bosa improves both the starting line up but then pushes one guy down the line to being a very high quality back up.

Throw in just look at last year's draft...Brandon Scherff was the first guy taken. They moved him to RG. He has done pretty well but playing Guard definitely helps to cover up some issues.
Flowers has the lowest grade of even 1st round pick according to PFF.
DJ Humphries last I knew wasn't even starting for his team.
Cameron Erving has really struggled
Laken Tomlinson has improved but started out terrible this year.
Ogbuehi hasn't played yet because of injury
Andrus Peat has been moved into Guard

So of all the OL players taken in the 1st round this last year the ones doing decent had to be moved to guard and the ones playing OT are among some of the worst. Again this isn't to say don't use a 1st round pick on the OL but it is to show the idea of expecting them to day 1 step in and be a blind side protector and do well is asking a lot.

I mean we can go back further but since the new CBA was signed I would say Matt Kalil was the only player to step in and do really well his rookie year playing at the Tackle position from the 1st round. All others played average or just down right terrible. Now before the CBA yet I can show you plenty that had great years. The switch with the CBA to shorter and less contact practices allowed has hurt the OL maybe more than any other position on the field.

We like to use the Bucs and Ravens DEF lead SB teams as benchmarks of defense heavy superbowl teams, but Ben's 1st SB win, he was not much of a factor, nor was Brady...those were also DEF led teams.

The Steelers are seeing 1st hand that they needed to rebuild the DEF if they are to be taken seriously as playoff contender...Jarvis Jones, Shazier, Stephon Tuitt, Cam Heyward, and now Dupree...all high draft picks, all are factoring in this revival. JJ has not panned out as a big playmaker but rounding into a 2nd contract player.

OL...imo is more about the unit than the individuals. Of course your players have to be smart and obviously have some ability. I don't care how strong he is, you can't put a guy with slow feet on the edge. He's going to struggle (Greg Robinson - STL).

Just because you take a young OT high doesn't mean anything...the unit needs so many reps together under live fire to grow...once they have that continuity...you can endure an injury by plugging in a guy, the other 4 can help him, but when all 5 guys are just trying to find their way..they could all be 5 star guys and that OL is still going to struggle.

 

[cdumler7]

We like to use the Bucs and Ravens DEF lead SB teams as benchmarks of defense heavy superbowl teams, but Ben's 1st SB win, he was not much of a factor, nor was Brady...those were also DEF led teams.

The Steelers are seeing 1st hand that they needed to rebuild the DEF if they are to be taken seriously as playoff contender...Jarvis Jones, Shazier, Stephon Tuitt, Cam Heyward, and now Dupree...all high draft picks, all are factoring in this revival. JJ has not panned out as a big playmaker but rounding into a 2nd contract player.

OL...imo is more about the unit than the individuals. Of course your players have to be smart and obviously have some ability. I don't care how strong he is, you can't put a guy with slow feet on the edge. He's going to struggle (Greg Robinson - STL).

Just because you take a young OT high doesn't mean anything...the unit needs so many reps together under live fire to grow...once they have that continuity...you can endure an injury by plugging in a guy, the other 4 can help him, but when all 5 guys are just trying to find their way..they could all be 5 star guys and that OL is still going to struggle.

Exactly...I forgot to mention that. I would say over the past 15 years especially we have seen that teams win the Super Bowl more on the back of the defense than that of an offense. I think only 1 team in the past 15 years has won while having the top scoring offense in the league. The 2009 Saints if I remember right were the highest scoring offense and won the Super Bowl. Beyond them nothing. The top scoring defense though has won it 4 of the past 15 years if I have looked at the stats right.

And you are right which is why I think so many rookie OL players have struggled so much since the new CBA happened. The ones that have had success went to OL's that were very much established around them like Martin for the Cowboys. We just are not seeing rookies step in very often and find instant success like we have in the past. They don't have the live reps with contact to build what they need. When you throw in all of these crazy offenses of college we just are not seeing guys come in with the proper technique to do well from day 1. Now like I said if the Titans take an OL or whoever takes an OL in the 1st round I won't blame them for making such a decision. Just don't expect great results day 1. To me they are like QB's in you need to give them 3 years to really develop and show what they can do.