Jamal Adams done for the year

[boogiewithstu2007]

Can you find this article or video where he said this? I just wonder because everything I have read and seen when this was all coming together ( Hiring PC and JS ) was it was equal and I don't remember hearing Pete say " I want overriding/overall control ". PC can be fired by JS, JS can not be fired by PC. So does he have "over all control" No not really.

The main issue I think is these two do not see eye to eye on Talent, Remember Wilson was JS guy and he said he was looking at the 2nd round to get him and they were excited to pick him up in the 3rd. JS said he is easily a 1st round QB if he was taller. I think they both put up there own draft board for each other then they go through them and find the common players. I think this is why we have always seen reaches in the draft be it the 1st round or the 7th round.

Still the rumors a couple years ago were like first, second round picks for JS. PICKS ..plural. I would have done it then i would have brought in someone and taken away Pete's "equality".

Let me see if I can find it, it’s been a while …

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Can you find this article or video where he said this? I just wonder because everything I have read and seen when this was all coming together ( Hiring PC and JS ) was it was equal and I don't remember hearing Pete say " I want overriding/overall control ". PC can be fired by JS, JS can not be fired by PC. So does he have "over all control" No not really.

The main issue I think is these two do not see eye to eye on Talent, Remember Wilson was JS guy and he said he was looking at the 2nd round to get him and they were excited to pick him up in the 3rd. JS said he is easily a 1st round QB if he was taller. I think they both put up there own draft board for each other then they go through them and find the common players. I think this is why we have always seen reaches in the draft be it the 1st round or the 7th round.

Still the rumors a couple years ago were like first, second round picks for JS. PICKS ..plural. I would have done it then i would have brought in someone and taken away Pete's "equality".

Pete Carroll had to be convinced to draft Russell Wilson

Coach Pete Carroll said Monday that general manager John Schneider had to convince him to draft Russell Wilson. How lucky were the Seattle Seahawks to find their franchise quarterback?

www.nfl.com

He was also named executive vice president of football operations, effectively making him the Seahawks' general manager as well. While the Seahawks have a general manager in John Schneider, he serves mainly in an advisory role to Carroll, who has the final say in football matters.


Just a couple I found, evidently John had to convince Pete to draft Wilson and had to sweat it out because John wanted Wilson with the 2nd pick, where we took Wagner …

 

[Screamin12th]

Pete Carroll had to be convinced to draft Russell Wilson

Coach Pete Carroll said Monday that general manager John Schneider had to convince him to draft Russell Wilson. How lucky were the Seattle Seahawks to find their franchise quarterback?

www.nfl.com

He was also named executive vice president of football operations, effectively making him the Seahawks' general manager as well. While the Seahawks have a general manager in John Schneider, he serves mainly in an advisory role to Carroll, who has the final say in football matters.


Just a couple I found, evidently John had to convince Pete to draft Wilson and had to sweat it out because John wanted Wilson with the 2nd pick, where we took Wagner …

like I said they have to agree on a player and most likely Pete didn't agree with Wilson because of the size and was able to get him in the 3rd round. I am sure JS had Wagner down as a possible pick I just don't think Pete had Wilson down ( early in the process ). Speaking of Wagner I remember a lot of people not liking that pick saying it was a reach. Turned out to be one of the best picks ever by the Hawks. Up there with Walter Jones, Shaun Alexander, Russell Wilson etc etc. But I've gone off topic.

"John convinced me on Russell," Carroll told TheMMQB.com's Peter King . "He was on him early, then he came back from seeing him late in his season at Wisconsin, I think against Michigan State, and he was so enthused about him. I watched a lot of tape on him, and John was right on. Then he got here, and he was everything John said he was."

Yep he convinced him but from the statement it was during the whole scouting process where I am sure Pete has to "convince" John also on a lot of things.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

like I said they have to agree on a player and most likely Pete didn't agree with Wilson because of the size and was able to get him in the 3rd round. I am sure JS had Wagner down as a possible pick I just don't think Pete had Wilson down ( early in the process ). Speaking of Wagner I remember a lot of people not liking that pick saying it was a reach. Turned out to be one of the best picks ever by the Hawks. Up there with Walter Jones, Shaun Alexander, Russell Wilson etc etc. But I've gone off topic.

"John convinced me on Russell," Carroll told TheMMQB.com's Peter King . "He was on him early, then he came back from seeing him late in his season at Wisconsin, I think against Michigan State, and he was so enthused about him. I watched a lot of tape on him, and John was right on. Then he got here, and he was everything John said he was."

Yep he convinced him but from the statement it was during the whole scouting process where I am sure Pete has to "convince" John also on a lot of things.

No doubt I’m sure they give and take, they’ve been working together a long time now, hard to believe it’s been over a decade now …

 

[Screamin12th]

this give and take I think is what's hurting the Hawks in the whole draft process. Maybe they have such a hard time between the two of them to nail down a first rounder that they would rather "trade" the pick. God lets hope they are not this petty and stupid but when you look at some of these trades for our first round picks and the Picks they have made in the first round you really do have to sit back and think about it.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

this give and take I think is what's hurting the Hawks in the whole draft process. Maybe they have such a hard time between the two of them to nail down a first rounder that they would rather "trade" the pick. God lets hope they are not this petty and stupid but when you look at some of these trades for our first round picks and the Picks they have made in the first round you really do have to sit back and think about it.

A lot of swings and misses lately for sure ..

 

[Screamin12th]

A lot of swings and misses lately for sure ..

the biggest one and the most damaging has been Jamal Adams. It really is sad, if he could just play like he did for New York! Also I stated this about Adams I think it was last year. His career will be a short one he is to small to be playing like he does and he will constantly be banged up or injured. Seattle had been playing Adams more like he played for the Jets this season but with more rushing opportunities, his play improved slightly but not even close to enough to justify 17.5 Mill a year contract, not even close. He is not worth more than Kam was worth whos Max salary was 12 million per year and if ANY of you think he is better than Kam you are HIGH or stupid, or both.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

the biggest one and the most damaging has been Jamal Adams. It really is sad, if he could just play like he did for New York! Also I stated this about Adams I think it was last year. His career will be a short one he is to small to be playing like he does and he will constantly be banged up or injured. Seattle had been playing Adams more like he played for the Jets this season but with more rushing opportunities, his play improved slightly but not even close to enough to justify 17.5 Mill a year contract, not even close. He is not worth more than Kam was worth whos Max salary was 12 million per year and if ANY of you think he is better than Kam you are HIGH or stupid, or both.

Not disagreeing but......cap level much different, so to some degree inflation of salaries come into to play. However Adams isn't worth the coin he got from the Seahawks and wasn't worth the draft capitol given for him. So kind of a double whammy and a god awful idea to pursue a trade for him. Seahawks got taken to the cleaners. A pass rushing safety is not how you want to improve pressure on QBs, causes a unsound defense approach IMO. So a really really stupid trade compounded by over paying him grossly.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

the biggest one and the most damaging has been Jamal Adams. It really is sad, if he could just play like he did for New York! Also I stated this about Adams I think it was last year. His career will be a short one he is to small to be playing like he does and he will constantly be banged up or injured. Seattle had been playing Adams more like he played for the Jets this season but with more rushing opportunities, his play improved slightly but not even close to enough to justify 17.5 Mill a year contract, not even close. He is not worth more than Kam was worth whos Max salary was 12 million per year and if ANY of you think he is better than Kam you are HIGH or stupid, or both.

Kam was the man, enforcer .. Jamal is different, he’s faster, incredible speed getting after the qb or closing distance to make a tackle .. But he is no Kam, no way .. While I don’t mind having a guy like Jamal on our defense I don’t like giving up draft picks like we did and then paying such a massive amount for it .. Drafting players is how you stay cap friendly, players also want to prove there worth on rookie contracts for a future payday …

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Not disagreeing but......cap level much different, so to some degree inflation of salaries come into to play. However Adams isn't worth the coin he got from the Seahawks and wasn't worth the draft capitol given for him. So kind of a double whammy and a god awful idea to pursue a trade for him. Seahawks got taken to the cleaners. A pass rushing safety is not how you want to improve pressure on QBs, causes a unsound defense approach IMO. So a really really stupid trade compounded by over paying him grossly.

Exactly how I feel … Jets got the better of this one …

 

[Screamin12th]

Not disagreeing but......cap level much different, so to some degree inflation of salaries come into to play. However Adams isn't worth the coin he got from the Seahawks and wasn't worth the draft capitol given for him. So kind of a double whammy and a god awful idea to pursue a trade for him. Seahawks got taken to the cleaners. A pass rushing safety is not how you want to improve pressure on QBs, causes a unsound defense approach IMO. So a really really stupid trade compounded by over paying him grossly.

Well the cap level has to be taken into account when signing salaries even if it drops like it did. It's not going to go back up to pre drop levels it will slowly go back up as this is the new "floor" for the cap starting from this year. You don't still sign 200+ million cap level salaries you just don't and the players have to know this.

Kam was the man, enforcer .. Jamal is different, he’s faster, incredible speed getting after the qb or closing distance to make a tackle .. But he is no Kam, no way .. While I don’t mind having a guy like Jamal on our defense I don’t like giving up draft picks like we did and then paying such a massive amount for it .. Drafting players is how you stay cap friendly, players also want to prove there worth on rookie contracts for a future payday …

Jamal is not really that much faster, 4.56 so Kam was 0.06 slower or 0.175 MPH at speed. Also when you have a DB style player and he is running around in an area filled with 300 pound players yeah they look hella fast lol.

 

[returnofjakedog]

the biggest one and the most damaging has been Jamal Adams. It really is sad, if he could just play like he did for New York! Also I stated this about Adams I think it was last year. His career will be a short one he is to small to be playing like he does and he will constantly be banged up or injured. Seattle had been playing Adams more like he played for the Jets this season but with more rushing opportunities, his play improved slightly but not even close to enough to justify 17.5 Mill a year contract, not even close. He is not worth more than Kam was worth whos Max salary was 12 million per year and if ANY of you think he is better than Kam you are HIGH or stupid, or both.

I have been a supporter of Adams and have defended the trade but I do admit that some of my points no longer stand up.
*Since it will no longer be two picks in the mid to late 20s range and instead one in the mid 20s and one in the mid teens to high single digits (hopefully the former) it is now an overpay based on the pick-points chart.
*It is not a $17.5 million a year deal. I've been over this several times, yet you still spout that misinformation as if it is reality. It isn't.
It is 3 years at $11.1 million a year, with 2 additional years that will be reworked/traded/cut before being implemented. The last 2 years of his base salary will never be seen. (Yes, there would be a dead money hit in that scenerio.) Still not a good contract for the team considering the current situation but at least be honest about the numbers.
Also, the theme that we didn't resign KJ because of Adams' deal is complete bs because they still had plenty of cap. They didn't resign KJ because Brooks and Barton were supposedly ascending. Turns out that Barton has had almost zero impact this year, and Brooks is a tackling machine that has really struggled in coverage.
*Not really noted here but the numbers continue to support Adams being good in coverage. His passer rating is well above league average this year but some people still don't seem to want to give him any credit for this (because it doesn't fit their narrative?) But the same people don't seem to want to acknowledge Brooks as being much, much worse in coverage.
*The injuries. This one is the killer to me. If he can't stay on the field, then he isn't nearly worth the contract. Not even close.

For me, from the 3 worst PC/JS trades we have listed I would say Harvin was the worst. They all had the common themes of incredible athleticism, draft capital, large contracts, and injuries but Harvin brought dissension and actively tried to split the locker room into factions, which is far worse than anything Adams or Graham ever did.

 

[Screamin12th]

Jamal's total contract is worth 17.5 mill a year no fudging of numbers change the fact that his contract averages 17.5 million per year. That is the cost they put on him. Oh but this but that, no that's disingenuous and you know it Jake and is only an attempt to make a bad situation look more favorable. If the Hawks cut Jamal after next year they still owe him 38 million + the bonuses and salary he all ready made still puts him at 17.5 million a season for that contract. You say that "COULD" be reworked. Hey once it is reworked then you can say it's not a 17.5 mill average salary.

*It is not a $17.5 million a year deal. I've been over this several times, yet you still spout that misinformation as if it is reality. It isn't.
It is 3 years at $11.1 million a year, with 2 additional years that will be reworked/traded/cut before being implemented. The last 2 years of his base salary will never be seen. (Yes, there would be a dead money hit in that scenerio.) Still not a good contract for the team considering the current situation but at least be honest about the numbers.

This isn't about KJ either this is about Adams his worth or lack their of and the utter stupidity to make a deal like they made. I like Jamal I think he is a special player and I like having him on the Seahawks but at what cost? to rich for my blood for a strong safety whos coverage is the worst part of his game.

 

[returnofjakedog]

Jamal's total contract is worth 17.5 mill a year no fudging of numbers change the fact that his contract averages 17.5 million per year. That is the cost they put on him. Oh but this but that, no that's disingenuous and you know it Jake and is only an attempt to make a bad situation look more favorable. If the Hawks cut Jamal after next year they still owe him 38 million + the bonuses and salary he all ready made still puts him at 17.5 million a season for that contract. You say that "COULD" be reworked. Hey once it is reworked then you can say it's not a 17.5 mill average salary.


This isn't about KJ either this is about Adams his worth or lack their of and the utter stupidity to make a deal like they made. I like Jamal I think he is a special player and I like having him on the Seahawks but at what cost? to rich for my blood for a strong safety whos coverage is the worst part of his game.

It is NOT a $70 million contract. It is 3 years and $33.3 million with 2 years that he will never see under it's current status. There is literally zero chance he sees the last 2 years in it's current form. This isn't the NBA or MLB with guaranteed contracts. We literally see contracts terminated every single year on every team.
You know how NFL contracts work. They also won't cut him after next year, but any cut/trade/rework would most likely happen the year after and they would owe $8 to 12 million depending on the date) that could be spread over 2 years.

Jamal Adams

Jamal Adams contract and salary cap details, full contract breakdowns, salaries, signing bonus, roster bonus, dead money, and valuations.

www.spotrac.com

It really isn't an attempt to make the narrative appear more positive. It is reality. Factual numbers. Same as the pass defense numbers that Adams puts up that show that he had actually been good is pass coverage this year, in fact quite a bit better than average but people seem to disregard this out of hand.

I also know that it isn't about KJ but that narrative was pushed (I believe by you?) and when I pointed out that wasn't true there was zero acknowledgement so I brought it up again.

I agree it is an overpay for him in both draft capital and salary. I didn't agree that was the case until 1) the Seahawks fell off the earth for a bit and the draft pick became higher (no one I saw predicted the fall), and 2) injuries. His play on the field was never the problem, despite what some people here say. His pass coverage numbers were better than anyone on the team this year not named Diggs (a low bar with our horrible CB play). Possibly Neal might be in the area but he blew a couple of coverages last weekend, so.....??

Adams has not been the problem with the D at all. The DL and the CBs are generally much bigger issues. But I agree he isn't worth the cost, specifically because of the injuries.

 

[blstoker]

It is NOT a $70 million contract. It is 3 years and $33.3 million with 2 years that he will never see under it's current status. There is literally zero chance he sees the last 2 years in it's current form. This isn't the NBA or MLB with guaranteed contracts. We literally see contracts terminated every single year on every team.
You know how NFL contracts work. They also won't cut him after next year, but any cut/trade/rework would most likely happen the year after and they would owe $8 to 12 million depending on the date) that could be spread over 2 years.

Jamal Adams

Jamal Adams contract and salary cap details, full contract breakdowns, salaries, signing bonus, roster bonus, dead money, and valuations.

www.spotrac.com

I think you're reading those numbers wrong.

1) You're numbers are off. I don't know where you're getting your numbers, but even spotrac is claiming you're way underselling Adams' contract. After 3 years, Adams will have been paid $46,440,000 over the first three years of his contract - which is $15,480,000 per year AAV. It'll also cost $14,220,000 against the cap to cut him that offseason, since the entirety of his option bonus becomes guaranteed on February 18, 2022. The only way to avoid that is to cut him before then, which I highly doubt will happen.

2) Unless some unforeseen circumstances arise between now and then, it's almost unimaginable that Adams will be cut or restructured before the 2024 season. That's been the MO for PC and JS since they got here, contracts aren't reworked until the final season. Adams should feel pretty comfortable that he'll be in Seattle until then at the very least. Besides, even after that year, Adams' AAV is less that 16,000,000 per. In the end, Adams' will play the first 4 years of this contract, and Seattle will pay him $62,940,000 to do so.

 

[returnofjakedog]

I think you're reading those numbers wrong.

1) You're numbers are off. I don't know where you're getting your numbers, but even spotrac is claiming you're way underselling Adams' contract. After 3 years, Adams will have been paid $46,440,000 over the first three years of his contract - which is $15,480,000 per year AAV. It'll also cost $14,220,000 against the cap to cut him that offseason, since the entirety of his option bonus becomes guaranteed on February 18, 2022. The only way to avoid that is to cut him before then, which I highly doubt will happen.

2) Unless some unforeseen circumstances arise between now and then, it's almost unimaginable that Adams will be cut or restructured before the 2024 season. That's been the MO for PC and JS since they got here, contracts aren't reworked until the final season. Adams should feel pretty comfortable that he'll be in Seattle until then at the very least. Besides, even after that year, Adams' AAV is less that 16,000,000 per. In the end, Adams' will play the first 4 years of this contract, and Seattle will pay him $62,940,000 to do so.

I think the difference is that I've been counting this year in the contract details. Therefore I am referring to the last 2 years being voided in some manner.

 

[returnofjakedog]

I think you're reading those numbers wrong.

1) You're numbers are off. I don't know where you're getting your numbers, but even spotrac is claiming you're way underselling Adams' contract. After 3 years, Adams will have been paid $46,440,000 over the first three years of his contract - which is $15,480,000 per year AAV. It'll also cost $14,220,000 against the cap to cut him that offseason, since the entirety of his option bonus becomes guaranteed on February 18, 2022. The only way to avoid that is to cut him before then, which I highly doubt will happen.

2) Unless some unforeseen circumstances arise between now and then, it's almost unimaginable that Adams will be cut or restructured before the 2024 season. That's been the MO for PC and JS since they got here, contracts aren't reworked until the final season. Adams should feel pretty comfortable that he'll be in Seattle until then at the very least. Besides, even after that year, Adams' AAV is less that 16,000,000 per. In the end, Adams' will play the first 4 years of this contract, and Seattle will pay him $62,940,000 to do so.

I also want to note that I believe that it was structured this way because PC and JS are not planning to be around for this. I think they went all in with the intention of leaving after 2 more years regardless of what happens.

 

[returnofjakedog]

The cap hits are $5 million, $11.11, and then a bigger hit $18.11, but that is still 3 years and $34.22, which is actually slightly more than I stated.
I am saying they will not actually proceed with the $23.11 and $24.11 base salaries of the last 2 years of the deal on the cap.

I'm not positive but the 3 year $46.6 million out in the contract listed on sportrac appears to include the full bonus payout, which isn't what the cap hit is in each year.
Let me be clear on this: I don't care what the total value of the contract is, I only care what the cap hit is from year to year. I have already acknowledged the possible dead money cap hits as a negative.

There may be more details available now as opposed to when it was first announced, but I listened to an hour breakdown of the contract details with John Clayton and his conclusions were essentially what I am stating.

Jamal Adams Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

Jamal Adams contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

 

[Screamin12th]

Well I think if Jake wouldn't have spent so much time fudging numbers to I don't know make himself feel better about Adams he wouldn't have made this mistake. Also I think he forgot about the 20 million signing bonus and the 38 mill guarantee.

No matter how you look at it Jamal Adams contract is bloated fat and overly expensive for a Strong Safety who is below average in coverage then add in two 1st, one of which might be top 10 and a 3rd and a quality starting SS/FS. Yes safety Bradley McDougald was not a superstar but he was a roster spot player and starter quality player all be it not great by any means.

I care almost ZERO about Adams sacks because it was one of the first times someone in the NFL played a safety like the Hawks did so it was new and confused people. Now that other teams saw it and had a year of seeing it they easily shut that part of his game down BIG TIME. Also exploiting it with passes the stress an all ready thin and now over taxed defensive backs group because they got DE and even DT dropping in coverage because they are rushing Adams. It's just a damn gimmick.

 

[Screamin12th]

here lets just list facts
Jamal Adams Contract is 4 years for 72 million - This is FACT
Jamal's AVERAGE per year value of said contract is 17.5 Million - this is FACT.

Or we could say Wilson's contract pays him WAY less than what he signed. - False

Contract-a written or spoken agreement, especially one concerning employment, sales, or tenancy, that is intended to be enforceable by law.