If we lose the series.

[robhea67]

mike young has been very good at first this year. cj will stay in tx. pay him the money have we ever had a pitcher back to back 16 win seasons in the tx heat. cj is an athlete it takes that kind of conditioning to pitch here?

 

[Windingmywatch]

so replace a starter with 16 wins and only 2 years as a starter with a kid who hasn't faced ML hitters. Do you expect him to cover CJ's 16 wins? and he becomes the # 5 pitcher on the roster so who takes over as the #1? Ogando who ran out of gas 2/3rds of the way thru the season, Holland, who can throw a gem like last night and then give up 5 runs in the 1st inning the next, Harrison, who is barely more capable than Ogando or the homerun king, Colby Lewis.

the Rangers have to commit totally to resigning CJ or go after a top flight free agent starter to fill his spot. and then if you are set on bringing up 1 of the kids then the most logical pitcher to let walk is Colby.

I said ... "I'd try to resign CJ ... but if TEX doesn't it isn't like there aren't SP prospects in the pipeline to replace him."

I guess you could take from what I wrote that a prospect would move up to the #1 spot ... but that's not what I meant. In reality getting as many wins from the same 5-man rotation in 2012 would be a miracle so it wouldn't be just CJ's 16 that might have to be covered.

My first option to replace CJ as a SP if he doesn't return is Feldman before we get to the prospects. TEX will work to resign CJ ... but given his post season performance to date ... he looks more like the "closer" or "setup man" CJ lately than he does the SP CJ needs to be.

So before we apply all your labels to the other 4 guys in the rotation ... TEX needs to figure out whether CJ is able to win the big ones himself ... and what label he is most representative of.

Sabathia isn't leaving NYY ... nobody else can afford him. Doesn't mean that they don't go after CJ too ... but doubt CJ wants to be #2 in NYY or #3 in LAA either ... when he was #1 with the AL Champion Texas Rangers.

 

[robhea67]

Hamilton actually delivered the game-winning hit last night. Nap gets all the glory, but Josh came through with the biggest hit. He scorched 2 balls last night (the double and line out to CF). I think he's figuring out how to produce despite the injury. He's had some big hits this postseason, despite the injury. We might not be here without the 2-run single in game 4 of the ALDS. The beauty of the Rangers team is that they're deep and talented, which means one single guy won't make the difference every time (doesn't have to), but we rely on multiple guys - each to step up when others are unable. The dynamic of the line-up would be totally different without Josh Hamilton and even Michael Young (for all his postseason troubles). Injuries are a part of the game. If we don't sign Hamilton because of injuries, we should let Cruz go too (that would stupid). You don't let premium talent go, especially when premium talent meshes well with the rest of the team chemistry-wise.

I think we have to keep this whole team intact moving forward at least for 2 more years. Guys that will be replaceable in about 2 years would be Andrus (only because of Profar), MY (because there should be cheaper DH options), Torrealba (should be able to behind another solid back-up C), and CF since it's reserved for Martin. I love Murph, but he's probably gone for a much deserved starting spot somewhere else at some point.

if aint broke dont fix it!!!

 

[scotsman1948]

I said ... "I'd try to resign CJ ... but if TEX doesn't it isn't like there aren't SP prospects in the pipeline to replace him."

I guess you could take from what I wrote that a prospect would move up to the #1 spot ... but that's not what I meant. In reality getting as many wins from the same 5-man rotation in 2012 would be a miracle so it wouldn't be just CJ's 16 that might have to be covered.

My first option to replace CJ as a SP if he doesn't return is Feldman before we get to the prospects. TEX will work to resign CJ ... but given his post season performance to date ... he looks more like the "closer" or "setup man" CJ lately than he does the SP CJ needs to be.

So before we apply all your labels to the other 4 guys in the rotation ... TEX needs to figure out whether CJ is able to win the big ones himself ... and what label he is most representative of.

Sabathia isn't leaving NYY ... nobody else can afford him. Doesn't mean that they don't go after CJ too ... but doubt CJ wants to be #2 in NYY or #3 in LAA either ... when he was #1 with the AL Champion Texas Rangers.

why shouldn't we expect the same number or more? CJ, Holland, Alexi and Harrison are all capable of improving their records next year and depending on if we keep Colby or sign a free agent to replace him we could see improvement there too. we won 96 games and there is no reason why we shouldn't expect or achieve 96+ wins next year

 

[DallasMCRSdynasty]

why shouldn't we expect the same number or more? CJ, Holland, Alexi and Harrison are all capable of improving their records next year and depending on if we keep Colby or sign a free agent to replace him we could see improvement there too. we won 96 games and there is no reason why we shouldn't expect or achieve 96+ wins next year

I think it's a no-brainer that we pick up Colby's option after he's had another strong post season. This is assuming he'll be healthy after the offseason. And no doubt about it Ogando/Holland/Harrison should be better next season. I mentioned this already but I expect Holland to be the #1 next season (at some point), unless we sign CC (that would be awesome!). If CJ leaves, I'd be okay if we can sign a guy like Buehrle from CWS.

 

[scotsman1948]

I think it's a no-brainer that we pick up Colby's option after he's had another strong post season. This is assuming he'll be healthy after the offseason. And no doubt about it Ogando/Holland/Harrison should be better next season. I mentioned this already but I expect Holland to be the #1 next season (at some point), unless we sign CC (that would be awesome!). If CJ leaves, I'd be okay if we can sign a guy like Buehrle from CWS.

maybe Holland could be our #1 but he is still too inconsistent to expect him to be our #1. if we don't sign CJ, then the 3 replacements in my book would be CC (if he opts out of NY), Buehrle or Oswalt (if he opts out of Philly).

they may pick up Colby's option or they may figure that he's expendable because of his homerun yielding knack

 

[Windingmywatch]

Really Scotty?

If TEX can't resign CJ ... how in the world would they even enter the conversation to sign CC? And then Buehrle or Oswalt? Wow ... now there are a couple of steps back down.

You think a 35-yo Oswalt has 10 wins in him next year ... let alone 16? You looking for a #5 via FA?

If 9 wins in a #5 spot is all you are looking for as one of the three arms to replace CJ ... then I'd rather use the spot for a Neil Ramirez or Martin Perez or Michael Kirkman or even Mark Hamburger to go after.

TEX doesn't need to waste time any more on guys like Rich Harden ... or Roy Oswalt.

 

[Windingmywatch]

Plus ... we keep forgetting to mention Scott Feldman.

 

[DallasMCRSdynasty]

I agree on Roy Oswalt. However, CC for 5 @ $110m > CJ for anything over 5 years @ $75-80M. I thought he was ready for the big time, but he's proven he's too erratic to get #1 money. Of course, a great start tonight gives him more bargaining power.

And yes, Scooter is a great fall back option, though I like him as a long reliever/spot starter (every team needs a guy like that).

 

[scotsman1948]

Really Scotty?

If TEX can't resign CJ ... how in the world would they even enter the conversation to sign CC? And then Buehrle or Oswalt? Wow ... now there are a couple of steps back down.

You think a 35-yo Oswalt has 10 wins in him next year ... let alone 16? You looking for a #5 via FA?

If 9 wins in a #5 spot is all you are looking for as one of the three arms to replace CJ ... then I'd rather use the spot for a Neil Ramirez or Martin Perez or Michael Kirkman or even Mark Hamburger to go after.

TEX doesn't need to waste time any more on guys like Rich Harden ... or Roy Oswalt.

i'm sorry but a step back is expecting a kid to step in and give you 9 wins when he has minimal or no experience facing ML talent. if you have 4 quality starters you might go with a kid at #5 but Holland, Ogando, Harrison & Colby are not those quality starters. in a year or 2 Holland, Ogando & Harrison may reach that level, Colby is always going to be what we're getting from him now. i would expect to see about what we got from these 4 again next year. that leaves approximately 34-35 starts that you would put into a kid's hands. if you are going to be satisfied with 9 wins during those starts then be prepared for a drop in wins to below 85-90 wins and probably a 2nd place finish in the west.

 

[scotsman1948]

it may have gotten a little easier keeping CJ because the Yankees are reportedly more interested in Darvish, who they could sign for a lot less than it might cost to get CJ. that still leaves several teams who are still interested in him including Washington who have stated that he was and still is their #1 target in the off-season.

 

[guitarmy21b]

I think we should go after Shields more than CC, CJ, or Yu.

 

[scotsman1948]

and for those who favor bring up one of the kids to fill CJ's spot, i'll point out these facts:

Holland has been up with the big team for 3 years: in 2009, he started 21 games and went 8-13. in 2010, he started 10 games and went 3-4. and then this year he finally started 32 games and went 16-5.

Harrison has been up for 4 years. in 2008, he started 15 games and went 9-3. in 2009, he stared 11 games and went 4-5. in 2010 he started 6 games and went 3-2. and this year he started 30 games and went 14-9.

it takes a kid at least 2-3 years at the MLB level to develop but if you're willing to wait for them then we might see a dip in our winning record for a couple of years while waiting. you have to have at least 3, preferably 4, quality starters and without CJ and with 3 young still developing starters in Holland, Harrison & Ogando and an adequate starter in Colby we aren't in a position to gamble. we need a CJ or someone comparable as the hinge pin to our rotation so as to allow Holland, Harrison & Ogando to continue development without the pressure of having the title "#1 starter" laid on them. i don't think that CJ is a legitimate #1 but he's the closest thing we have right now.

 

[scotsman1948]

I think we should go after Shields more than CC, CJ, or Yu.

how much are you willing to give up? Tampa will want at least 2 of our young minor league starters like Hamburger and something more.

 

[guitarmy21b]

how much are you willing to give up? Tampa will want at least 2 of our young minor league starters like Hamburger and something more.

I thought he could opt out of his contract? I dunno, I'm not the contract guru that some of yall are.

 

[romeo212000]

If we don't get CJ, I like the idea of going after Shields. Hell, I like the idea of going after him even if we do. But the point is we need to resign the same quality pitcher as CJ, whether that be CJ himself or not.

Here's the thing. Everyone is bitching about CJ's postseason record, and rightfully so. I think we have a right to expect more of him. But, now a bunch of idiots are making knee-jerk reactions and saying let him walk. Here's the problem, you have to have someone who can step in and replace his regular season production. CJ has a very high likelyhood of replicating his production, and I expect improvement as this is only his second year as a starter.

I think Holland will be fine next year, as will Harrison. Ogando and Lewis are question marks. Ogando was unstoppable when no one knew anything about him. Then they caught on. If he learns to really pitch and develop at least one if not two secondary pitches he should be nails next season. However, no one really knows how next season will go for him. Lewis is nearing the end of his career. Will he be serviceable? I think so, but we could easily see him start trending downward. People want to compare CJ's "ace" status to Halladay, Verlander, Lee etc. His numbers we ver respectable in comparison, but for Christ's sake people. You are talking about a 2nd year starter with super low mileage on his arm in his early 30's. I really have a feeling if we let him walk we will be sorry. Should we pay him 22-25 mil a year on a 5-7 year deal? No, but I think the club would be smart to give him 15-19 mil a year with some extra incentives and options. Otherwise, you have to go after CC, Shields, or Buehrle and risk getting into a bidding war over someone who has not proven they can pitch at RBIA like CJ can.

 

[AGZBASEBALL]

If we don't get CJ, I like the idea of going after Shields. Hell, I like the idea of going after him even if we do. But the point is we need to resign the same quality pitcher as CJ, whether that be CJ himself or not.

Here's the thing. Everyone is bitching about CJ's postseason record, and rightfully so. I think we have a right to expect more of him. But, now a bunch of idiots are making knee-jerk reactions and saying let him walk. Here's the problem, you have to have someone who can step in and replace his regular season production. CJ has a very high likelyhood of replicating his production, and I expect improvement as this is only his second year as a starter.

I think Holland will be fine next year, as will Harrison. Ogando and Lewis are question marks. Ogando was unstoppable when no one knew anything about him. Then they caught on. If he learns to really pitch and develop at least one if not two secondary pitches he should be nails next season. However, no one really knows how next season will go for him. Lewis is nearing the end of his career. Will he be serviceable? I think so, but we could easily see him start trending downward. People want to compare CJ's "ace" status to Halladay, Verlander, Lee etc. His numbers we ver respectable in comparison, but for Christ's sake people. You are talking about a 2nd year starter with super low mileage on his arm in his early 30's. I really have a feeling if we let him walk we will be sorry. Should we pay him 22-25 mil a year on a 5-7 year deal? No, but I think the club would be smart to give him 15-19 mil a year with some extra incentives and options. Otherwise, you have to go after CC, Shields, or Buehrle and risk getting into a bidding war over someone who has not proven they can pitch at RBIA like CJ can.

I totally Agree. CJ has had a bad post season. But He has Two Good Seasons in a row as a starter. He would be very difficult to replace. CJ pitches 220 Innings and had a 2.94 ERA with a 16-7 Record. The real problem is that Wilson is a good pitcher. Just not a Ace. You like CJ in your Rotation but maybe as a Number 3 Starter. CJ was in a role He just isn't meant for. What I hear is that the Rangers aren't going to go past 75 Million on a 5 year Contract. Weaver got 85 Million 5 Year Deal from the Angels. Don't feel CJ is a Ace like Weaver is. Rangers will make a competetive offer to CJ but if the Yankees come around and give CJ 20 Million Plus, forget it. If Wilson walks the Rangers will need to be in the market for a good starting pitcher.

 

[scotsman1948]

I thought he could opt out of his contract? I dunno, I'm not the contract guru that some of yall are.

i'm not sure but i think he still has 2-4 years left on his contract.


Tampa has 3 club option years on him worth 28M.

 

[fordman84]

Shields has club options. 2012-2014 for 7/9/12 mill respectively. Pretty sure TPA picks those up each year.

 

[romeo212000]

I totally Agree. CJ has had a bad post season. But He has Two Good Seasons in a row as a starter. He would be very difficult to replace. CJ pitches 220 Innings and had a 2.94 ERA with a 16-7 Record. The real problem is that Wilson is a good pitcher. Just not a Ace. You like CJ in your Rotation but maybe as a Number 3 Starter. CJ was in a role He just isn't meant for. What I hear is that the Rangers aren't going to go past 75 Million on a 5 year Contract. Weaver got 85 Million 5 Year Deal from the Angels. Don't feel CJ is a Ace like Weaver is. Rangers will make a competetive offer to CJ but if the Yankees come around and give CJ 20 Million Plus, forget it. If Wilson walks the Rangers will need to be in the market for a good starting pitcher.

CJ is easily a number 2 in my opinion. Is he an ace? Not right now. They guy is still pretty green as a SP though. Tough to go off of Weaver's contract since he clearly gave LAA the hometown discount. Also, everyone else seems to be ingoring the possibility that pitching CJ every 5th day down the stretch may have just tired him out some. It is a possiblity worth considering. I didn't think he looked quite as sharp in his last 3 regular season starts or so.