If Brady makes the sb and loses

[Fencer]

To be honest, that'd probably be my reaction too if I were a Patriots' fan. But cheating is cheating, and Rice did it too; so his legacy & his 3 Super Bowls are tainted as well.

I'm sure there's more cheating than we'll ever know, but that doesn't make it ok for the ones who get busted.



..What does it all mean? It's a game. It's not life & death.

To this day, there isn't even strong evidence of Patriots "cheating" except that they continued to use certain camera angles for a few games after they were disallowed.

Well, except for the injury reports. The Patriots have long been liars about injuries.

 

[Fencer]

As for Montana vs. Brady -- pretty comparable. They excel(led) in similar ways.

The game has evolved, with modern players facing greater demands but also having better training both physically and mentally. E.g., guys are bigger (the physical part) and Brady's offense is much more complex than Montana's (the mental part). So while Brady is clearly better, that doesn't necessarily make him "greater", because he SHOULD be better given his greater opportunities to be so.

Similarly, because of rule changes Brady should have much better stats ... and he does.

 

[Jakology]

Tom Brady is the GOAT based on overall accomplishments. That's just one way of looking at it though.

 

[NinerSickness]

To this day, there isn't even strong evidence of Patriots "cheating" except that they continued to use certain camera angles for a few games after they were disallowed.

Well, except for the injury reports. The Patriots have long been liars about injuries.

Report: Patriots sent employees into locker rooms to steal play sheets

It's not just one thing; he's been CAUGHT cheating over and over and over again; and that's just the stuff he'd been caught doing. He's a disgrace. If Kraft had a shred of integrity, he'd fire the guy.

Once a guy's been caught multiple times, suspicions are enough to believe IMO (bugging locker rooms, jamming radio signals, and so on). Dude's dirtier than a $2 whore.

 

[Fencer]

He's been CAUGHT cheating over and over and over again.

If that were true, it would be public information by now.

In fact, however, there is no credible public information that supports your conclusion.

 

[Ricky Roma]

Similarly, because of rule changes Brady should have much better stats ... and he does.

Except in the playoffs.

The passing game in today's era is a joke compared to when Montana played, and yet Montana's playoff averages are somewhat better than Brady's. Given the differences in eras, he downright destroys him.

Put Montana in this era, where the game has never been more quarterback-oriented...where the position has never been more protected? Put him in an era where the salary cap and free agency limits the talent around everyone generally equally, with said passing rules? Put him in this era where the quarterback position itself determines wins and losses more than ever, given all the above?

Brady can win this years Super Bowl, earn the MVP in the regular season and the title game. He still won't be better than Montana. Brady is probably top 10 all time...not that I have some list...but there are a few guys I could certainly consider ahead of him.

 

[NEPatsfan]

Should Montana retain his status as GOAT?

He no longer has the status as GOAT, therefore he can not retain it, since he doesn't have it.

 

[NEhomer]

Should Montana retain his status as GOAT?

This thread is full of excellent points back and forth over Tom vs Joe that are based upon many factors. If you're going to factor in this current Superbowl win as the thread title suggests, then no. Three appearances beyond the 4 wins they share would be pretty hard to argue against. Certainly if Joe got to 7 while Tom only got to 4, Joe fans would use it.

I see them as about equal. Wanna say Joe's better? Ok, whatever. All stats aside both of those cats were tough motherfuckers to have to defend against multiple times year after year in big situations.

Of course Montana is the GOAT. He'd have about ten rings with the talent Brady has had surrounding him. The fact that Brady needed to be bailed out by his kickers and defense to even win one should be endlessly shameful to him.

That's pretty good stuff right there.

 

[NEPatsfan]

Except in the playoffs.

The passing game in today's era is a joke compared to when Montana played, and yet Montana's playoff averages are somewhat better than Brady's. Given the differences in eras, he downright destroys him.

Put Montana in this era, where the game has never been more quarterback-oriented...where the position has never been more protected? Put him in an era where the salary cap and free agency limits the talent around everyone generally equally, with said passing rules? Put him in this era where the quarterback position itself determines wins and losses more than ever, given all the above?

Brady can win this years Super Bowl, earn the MVP in the regular season and the title game. He still won't be better than Montana. Brady is probably top 10 all time...not that I have some list...but there are a few guys I could certainly consider ahead of him.

Truth has three phases.

1. Denial

2. Violent Resistance (Not litterally violent)

3. Self Evidence

You seem to be somewhere between 1 & 2.

In time you will reach 3 on the path to Truth, though you have a long road ahead.

 

[Jakology]

The era argument is bullshit. Truth is we can't really compare players from different eras. But in my mind, with the advancements we've made, technology, just more access to things to make athletes better, today's athletes are just better overall. I don't really see how you could argue against this. Especially with the advances in health, and treatment for injuries. You see longer careers, healthier players, etc.

 

[Ricky Roma]

Truth has three phases.

1. Denial

2. Violent Resistance (Not litterally violent)

3. Self Evidence

You seem to be somewhere between 1 & 2.

In time you will reach 3 on the path to Truth, though you have a long road ahead.

Translation: You can't address the points at hand, so you start chucking shit at the wall hoping something will stick....

Try again.

 

[TBBishop]

Should Montana retain his status as GOAT?

That ship has sailed. Losing in the SB would still give Brady as many rings as Montana and THREE more SB appearances. And this idea that it's better to be .1000 in championship games and have 4 rings than to have 4 rings and 6 (or 7) appearances is absurd.

 

[molsaniceman]

But But Joes an angel

SUMMARY: At a June 2015 charity event in Pittsburgh, former San Francisco 49ers quarterback Joe Montana confessed that, in the 80s, his "offensive lineman used to spray silicon on their shirts." Montana said they continued the practice "until they got caught."

[FONT=Bitter, serif]Your Team Cheats - The Definitive Guide to NFL Cheating[/FONT]

 

[NEPatsfan]

Translation: You can't address the points at hand, so you start chucking shit at the wall hoping something will stick....

Try again.

I was wrong, you are still stuck in phase one of Truth.

 

[TBBishop]

Of course Montana is the GOAT. He'd have about ten rings with the talent Brady has had surrounding him. The fact that Brady needed to be bailed out by his kickers and defense to even win one should be endlessly shameful to him.

Wow, so Montana didn't have great defenses? Montana didn't have the first great pass catching RB? Montana wasn't throwing to the consensus greatest player EVER? Thats some serious revisionist shit there.

 

[Ricky Roma]

I was wrong, you are still stuck in phase one of Truth.

Swing and a miss....

 

[NEPatsfan]

Swing and a miss....

No it's spot on, and this new comment by you confirms it. Denial.

 

[Ricky Roma]

No it's spot on, and this new comment by you confirms it. Denial.

Strike 3...you're out. Maybe someday you'll come with an actual argument.

 

[NEPatsfan]

Strike 3...you're out.

You aren't anywhere near phase 3 yet, where you come to realize Brady holds the top spot in nearly every post season category.

 

[Ricky Roma]

You aren't anywhere near phase 3 yet, where you come to realize Brady holds the top spot in nearly every post season category.

Figures....after given three shots (and failing) you 'attempt' to bring something to the table. Unfortunately, it's already been basically dismissed in my original post - which you didn't bother countering - and actually exposes you as quite ignorant on the subject.