Homer is gone

[MrFreeze]

Walt says little to no chance of a contract extension being reached

 

[TKOSpikes]

Hopefully he pitches well in the first half and we can get something for him.

 

[fordman84]

Hey MrFreeze, you a fan of Arrested Development?

 

[Redsfan1507]

I've always thought Homer wants to be a Ranger. He may get his chance. I think he has substantial upside, but has always been a little hard headed- he may be more apt to be mentored by Nolan Ryan & Co., so maybe that is best for all concerned. Typically,unless a trade to a team that is confident in signing the player long term, trade value is severely discounted. Anyone think Drew Stibbs and a minor league pitcher was equal value for Choo ? Maybe for one year-exactly what the Reds got. If the Rangers or other team that Bailey has mutual long term interest with can be found, it might be good for both teams. Otherwise, the Reds won't get anyone to be exited about, IMO.

 

[JohnU]

If I look at the pitching as it stands today, I would hate to lose Homer. But as the world turns, he's not going to stay in Cincy.

In 2010, if you'd told me the Reds were going to lose Aaron Harang, I'd have had the same feeling about it.

If the pitcher moves on, the team moves on. Homer isn't a franchise, he's a pitcher.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Teams are constantly evolving, never static.

On one hand, I wish for more loyalty from players to the team that made their dream come true. On the other, I also understand wanting to play for your hometown team...and to sign a contract that would make your great grandchildren privilidged. A million years ago, I got paid (very little) from the dastardly Cardinals organization (which also proves they haven't always been infallable), but dreamed of playing for the Reds. If God had given me the body my dreams wished for, I would probably have chosen to bail on my original team too.

Homer pitched well enough last year to win 15-16 games, IMO. TWO no-nos proves he's special. If he's worth $75M, then he's worth more than a couple of AA prospects in trade...but trading comes with liability for risk assessment attached, and a lame duck gets equal value as often as you get retail price for your trade-in at a car dealer. Another clue,IMO, to stop ignoring Chapman's Randy Johnson type potential as a LHSP....which by the way, the Reds, have none of, and 45 of the last 51 World Champions weren't missing.

 

[WvuDieHard]

Losing Homer will leave a mark on the pitching staff but with a good minor leaguer or 2 --we will survive. Go REDS!! I think I am getting spring fever. The downside is that with NO DUSTMOP, I wont be able to criticize anything. God am I so happy the lounge lizard and his $2.50 retard wristbands are gone from the Cincinnati Dugout.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Losing Dusty wont hurt them, but might not make them better, not right away, anyway. Anyone that thinks Billy Hamilton is going to hit like Choo is dilusional. He is a different kind of player that can have a positive impact, but he has to get on base- a total question mark. Tony Cingrani is lefthanded, but no one expects him to put up Bronson Arroyo innings, much less Arroyo stats.

So, this team did NOT get better on paper. Cueto could return healthy. Ludwick and Frazier could hit better without impressing much. Phillips could rebound from 4 consecutive years of offensive decline....or not. The Reds could start to learn to execute better fundamentals, steal some bases, and maybe even score some runs without multiple homers, only possible because of Dusty's demise, but there is no guarantee this will be successful with current roster anytime soon.

I'm dissapointed (so far) the Reds haven't signed an impact position player, no disrespect to Skip Schumaker intended. I have always felt signing Ludwick for the kind of money he will make this season will hold the lineup hostage trying to force playing time on a guy that pulled one out of his ass to get that contract to begin with. Heisey hasn't shown he's a better answer, and although Schumaker gets on base, he has neither power, speed or great D...he's a role player best suited to platooning or chipping in, not a key offensive cog. Hamilton will have a great deal of pressure on him, rarely a good thing for a rookie, especially on a team full of players as unfamiliar with Hamiltons style of offense, as was Dusty Baker.

I'm hopeful Price makes this team smarter, and allows them to expand on their individual strengths, to the benefit of the team, instead of being forced to play to the managers strengths, at the expense of the team. Great teams often make mediocre managers look great, but it doesn't usually work as well in reverse. I think the Reds have field talent, but less so than last year, when much of it was wasted. I hope the Reds do well, but there may still be lots to complain about, even if it isn't the dugout staff.

 

[JohnU]

I can abide complaining about bad players. They are bad because they either play bad or are bad.
In the majors, it's hard to find both.
The question is, beyond my belief that the hitting philosophy was awful, was how much the dugout staff can contribute. If this is indeed about accountability, then everyone is accountable.
Otherwise, it's a load of horse manure.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Homer submitted arbitration at $11.6 M. Reds about $3M less- chump change difference these days. Homers figure was about what Arroyo made per year-on a contract he earned after about 10 years of MLB experience. Homer has had 2 seasons he pitched a full SP season load...he DOES have 2 no hitters though. It's a lot of jack, and he's gonna win at either figure...but if his tactic is to always go for max buck he's probably gonna be gone sooner than later. I would worry less about that if Cingrani had a plan B if throwing a 95mph collarbone high fastball doesn't work out, or if the Reds had a clue how to tell Randy Johnson and Billy Wagner apart, and decided which one Aroldis Chapnan should spend his last 2 years in a Reds uni emulating.

 

[JohnU]

It's why we signed Jeff Francis.
In case
Homer
leaves
town.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Not so quick...rumor is the Reds and Bailey are in negotiations on an extension now.

On a not so optimistic note, also talking to walking wounded Grady Sizemore, who has been putting up little pieces of Corey Payterson-esc performances between years of DL stays the last half decade or so.

 

[JohnU]

The Sizemore thing puzzles me just a little but it makes sense on the cheap.
Alleging Hamilton starts the year in Cincy and struggles, Sizemore can be put in there until a decision is made.

This only makes sense IF they plan to start Sizemore in the minors. He hasn't hit a ball in earnest in 2 years. I hope Walt doesn't hamstring the new manager before spring training even starts. If that's the case, I lose a lot of respect for Price for allowing it to happen.

 

[Redsfan1507]

I'll defer til spring training, but I've seen several moves from Walt that don't appear to be part of a congruent plan.

I really believe he was all in last year, but extending Dusty for two seasons just didnt fit. I got Ludwick, like Gomes, Hairston, etc. as a low risk gamble, but never bought into signing Ludwick to serious money...it's one thing to bet $2 on a 15-1 horse, quite another to bet $200 to win on his next race just because he placed on the $2 race.

I completely got Walt's intention to make Chapman a starter, signing Broxton to a closers deal to mske intentions clear, and believing Dustys refusal to cooperate added to the numerous reasons to fire Dusty, but am at a loss after making Captain Blindman walk the plank, Walt suddenly decides Chapman should stay molding in the pen. If he pressures Price to hit Cozart in the 2 hole, and leadoff Grady Sizemore, and never let either steal a base, still refuses to put a lefty in the rotation, I'm gonna ask for a competency test for ol' Walt.

 

[JohnU]

I HAVE to believe Price is in on these discussions. If he isn't, then the manager ought to be one of us here on the Hoop.

 

[Redsfan1507]

I would have thought that Dusty was in on plans to make Broxton a closer before they gave him $21M too, but they broke ST with AC there. Moneyball gave a good representation of what happens sometimes when GM and manager aren't on the same page...it happens sometimes. Price is in a tough spot- he's less a couple of tools this year.

 

[chico ruiz]

forget about the organizational politics. forget about dusty. forget about price. forget about chapman as starter. just take a close look at broxton's history. evaluate based on that alone, and it is clear, without need of any debate, that the 3 year signing was ill advised.

 

[JohnU]

I think signing Broxton was a fair decision. I think signing ANY relief pitcher to a contract more than 180 days is folly. I still believe that teams will overpay for relief pitching because they are convinced that starters can't pitch more than once every 5 days, no more than 30 times a year and 100 pitches or less.

Until that changes, teams will keep fooling the fans by signing relievers and telling the fans they've upgraded the pitching -- when what they meant to say was they couldn't find any decent starters.

So middle relief is supposed to get you to the "closer" who is supposed to be Mariano-like.

If you are in the major leagues, you should be able to get 3 outs in the 9th inning (starters generally excluded from this) ... and if you can't, you should be pitching for the Gary RailCats.

So 3 years for Broxton is knee-jerk and part of the culture of baseball that needs to change -- soon.

Which is why we are going to keep wasting Chapman.

 

[WvuDieHard]

If Chad Rogers develops as expected, Homer will be a quick memory.

 

[JohnU]

I vote we ride Homer's horse until he decides to hit the FA market.