garcon

[Darrell Green Fan]

What's the point in saying I told you so when I was right from the beginning? Hopefully, you're reading these posts and doing your own research in order to contribute to meaningful conversation instead of playing sophomoric bating games. Clearly there are some who insist upon defending earlier positions which have now been proven misguided at best, but honestly, isn't that in part, why we post here? It is a forum afterall.

Yeah, OK. That's it alright.

So according to you a total rebuild, which this team is in the process of doing, means everyone goes. ALL parts were your words. So I guess that applies to Trent, Kerrigan, Breeland, Keenan Robinson too huh? Or does a total rebuild only apply to the players you don't like? Can't have it both ways, back up your words.

 

[Stymietee]

Yeah, OK. That's it alright.

So according to you a total rebuild, which this team is in the process of doing, means everyone goes. ALL parts were your words. So I guess that applies to Trent, Kerrigan, Breeland, Keenan Robinson too huh? Or does a total rebuild only apply to the players you don't like? Can't have it both ways, back up your words.

No problem........I'll admit that it's going to take minimum 2 years, more likely 3 before this team becomes playoff competitive and that is if all goes well. The rebuild will take at least that long, if you couple that with the average life span of an NFL player ( 4-5 years) most of the current players on this team won't be around when this happens. Granted there's always the possibility that a very few will still be on the roster........let me reiterate. .....very few!

This is a very feeble attempt to steer away from the point of this thread. It is something that people do for lack of solid argumentative points. If you want to pick over what's written and use objection to slivers of the same as your contributions here, that's fine, but understand that on sites such as these there are some very heavy readers/ thinkers on board who just might call you out for that.

The facts are that something will have to be done about Garcon by June, because I saw it as a problem from the beginning doesn't make that go away nor does it mean that others who did not see it then don't realize it now. So if you have some meaniful contribution to this subject I am like others here open to your input. Thanks!

 

[skinsdad62]

I don't understand your reasoning here, there's nothing here that I've stated basically or otherwise. First to correct the record, in a total rebuild ALL parts are replaced, that's what makes it a TOTAL rebuild. Washington is in exactly the quandry that I objected to when they insisted that a career # 2 wideout was a # 1 wideout simply because they paid him money equal to that of a #1. Now they find themselves in a bind because they have finally decided to prpoerly rebuild the team with a real GM and mostly thru the draft. The bind? Spending too much money at one position (wr) because of needs at other spots and facing cap restrictions. Pierre Garcon alone will command just over 15 million dollars this year and next. So the question is what to do with him. Keep him, cut him or trade him. Keeping him might make some feel good but it certainly doesn't help the team cap wise even if they restructure his contract. Cutting him hurts less than keeping him but either way the team faces dead money in future years. The least painful option is to trade him. It is that because a trade minimizes the cap hit (dead money) to 4.4 million this year only. Plus the team gets something in return (draft pick).

The whole spiel about replacing parts and hauling away parts only to be replaced by new parts is something that you have to deal with, it makes no sense to me!

the lets cut kerrigan , robinson al the qbs , williams djax and the rest if we are going to dumbassville

if you want to split hairs on "total rebuilds " and what not then i dont have answers for you

this rebuild will take awhile . the money we get by cutting garcon isnt going to make any real impact on who we get in FA especially when our new GM doesnt really want to use FA as a building tool

 

[Stymietee]

WTUOTE="skinsdad62, post: 6271524, member: 1615"]the lets cut kerrigan , robinson al the qbs , williams djax and the rest if we are going to dumbassville

if you want to split hairs on "total rebuilds " and what not then i dont have answers for you

this rebuild will take awhile . the money we get by cutting garcon isnt going to make any real impact on who we get in FA especially when our new GM doesnt really want to use FA as a building tool[/QUOTE]

Waaaaaa?

 

[skinsdad62]

WTUOTE="skinsdad62, post: 6271524, member: 1615"]the lets cut kerrigan , robinson al the qbs , williams djax and the rest if we are going to dumbassville

if you want to split hairs on "total rebuilds " and what not then i dont have answers for you

this rebuild will take awhile . the money we get by cutting garcon isnt going to make any real impact on who we get in FA especially when our new GM doesnt really want to use FA as a building tool

Waaaaaa?[/QUOTE]

"I don't understand your reasoning here, there's nothing here that I've stated basically or otherwise. First to correct the record, in a total rebuild ALL parts are replaced, that's what makes it a TOTAL rebuild."

your words not mine . so if the debate is , are we in a total rebuild and based on your definition we are NOT because we arent getting rid of all our "good players " no team would do that


" I believe that there is a misunderstanding of how the trade would work. I didn't want to make the point earlier because the visceral responses were too good to correct them. This is what happens with a trade. The new team would only be on the hook for 5.3 million while Washington pays out 4.4 million against their cap to move him. I'm willing to bet that they can find a willing trade partner under this scenario. So what's in it for ole' DC? They get a draft pick and rid themselves of a little over 15 million against their cap this year and next."

again your words and numbers not mine . the new team may take 5.3 mil on but for a 2nd rounder ? doubtful because with a deep draft at wr a second rounder is about 4 mil cheaper . now for us and what we do with a 5.3 mil . well you have the hole at wr or you have to add another draft need for wr because roberts and grant havent proven they can sniff garcon's production

so you have a choice of what to do with 5.3 mil we get . well you could get one good player or maybe 2 lesser talents who wont be much more then a 3rd rate guy and a special teams guy hence what i said above . you arent getting anyone who will make a big difference here

by keeping garcon you give our 2 young qbs a dependable veteran to work with and DJAX . perhaps the wrs can carry the qbs for awhile

and in 2017 you will have garcons contract off the books and you will be in position to fill some holes with 2 years of young talent being added

what we will get in FA this year will be some small term contracts to hold the fort until the young talent matures . i see no need to rush money to FA if you are committed to a proper rebuild

something will have to be done about garcon soon . and the choice should be keep him

Rg3 and KC need the best wr corp we can field in order to evaluate them

 

[Stymietee]

Waaaaaa?

"I don't understand your reasoning here, there's nothing here that I've stated basically or otherwise. First to correct the record, in a total rebuild ALL parts are replaced, that's what makes it a TOTAL rebuild."

your words not mine . so if the debate is , are we in a total rebuild and based on your definition we are NOT because we arent getting rid of all our "good players " no team would do that


" I believe that there is a misunderstanding of how the trade would work. I didn't want to make the point earlier because the visceral responses were too good to correct them. This is what happens with a trade. The new team would only be on the hook for 5.3 million while Washington pays out 4.4 million against their cap to move him. I'm willing to bet that they can find a willing trade partner under this scenario. So what's in it for ole' DC? They get a draft pick and rid themselves of a little over 15 million against their cap this year and next."

again your words and numbers not mine . the new team may take 5.3 mil on but for a 2nd rounder ? doubtful because with a deep draft at wr a second rounder is about 4 mil cheaper . now for us and what we do with a 5.3 mil . well you have the hole at wr or you have to add another draft need for wr because roberts and grant havent proven they can sniff garcon's production

so you have a choice of what to do with 5.3 mil we get . well you could get one good player or maybe 2 lesser talents who wont be much more then a 3rd rate guy and a special teams guy hence what i said above . you arent getting anyone who will make a big difference here

by keeping garcon you give our 2 young qbs a dependable veteran to work with and DJAX . perhaps the wrs can carry the qbs for awhile

and in 2017 you will have garcons contract off the books and you will be in position to fill some holes with 2 years of young talent being added

what we will get in FA this year will be some small term contracts to hold the fort until the young talent matures . i see no need to rush money to FA if you are committed to a proper rebuild

something will have to be done about garcon soon . and the choice should be keep him

Rg3 and KC need the best wr corp we can field in order to evaluate them[/QUOTE]

I see that I'm gonna have to walk you through this......so let's begin with two simple questions.....1. How long do you expect this change/rebuild/ reload to be complete? 2. How long is the average career of an NFL player? Yeah yeah it varies by position, just the average thank you.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

No problem........I'll admit that it's going to take minimum 2 years, more likely 3 before this team becomes playoff competitive and that is if all goes well. The rebuild will take at least that long, if you couple that with the average life span of an NFL player ( 4-5 years) most of the current players on this team won't be around when this happens. Granted there's always the possibility that a very few will still be on the roster........let me reiterate. .....very few!

This is a very feeble attempt to steer away from the point of this thread. It is something that people do for lack of solid argumentative points. If you want to pick over what's written and use objection to slivers of the same as your contributions here, that's fine, but understand that on sites such as these there are some very heavy readers/ thinkers on board who just might call you out for that.

The facts are that something will have to be done about Garcon by June, because I saw it as a problem from the beginning doesn't make that go away nor does it mean that others who did not see it then don't realize it now. So if you have some meaniful contribution to this subject I am like others here open to your input. Thanks!

I already gave my thoughts about this thread's theme and your opinion on Garcon. I have now moved on to picking apart your dumb ass comments.

 

[Stymietee]

I already gave my thoughts about this thread's theme and your opinion on Garcon. I have now moved on to picking apart your dumb ass comments.

Good-luck with that!

 

[skinsdad62]

"I don't understand your reasoning here, there's nothing here that I've stated basically or otherwise. First to correct the record, in a total rebuild ALL parts are replaced, that's what makes it a TOTAL rebuild."

your words not mine . so if the debate is , are we in a total rebuild and based on your definition we are NOT because we arent getting rid of all our "good players " no team would do that


" I believe that there is a misunderstanding of how the trade would work. I didn't want to make the point earlier because the visceral responses were too good to correct them. This is what happens with a trade. The new team would only be on the hook for 5.3 million while Washington pays out 4.4 million against their cap to move him. I'm willing to bet that they can find a willing trade partner under this scenario. So what's in it for ole' DC? They get a draft pick and rid themselves of a little over 15 million against their cap this year and next."

again your words and numbers not mine . the new team may take 5.3 mil on but for a 2nd rounder ? doubtful because with a deep draft at wr a second rounder is about 4 mil cheaper . now for us and what we do with a 5.3 mil . well you have the hole at wr or you have to add another draft need for wr because roberts and grant havent proven they can sniff garcon's production

so you have a choice of what to do with 5.3 mil we get . well you could get one good player or maybe 2 lesser talents who wont be much more then a 3rd rate guy and a special teams guy hence what i said above . you arent getting anyone who will make a big difference here

by keeping garcon you give our 2 young qbs a dependable veteran to work with and DJAX . perhaps the wrs can carry the qbs for awhile

and in 2017 you will have garcons contract off the books and you will be in position to fill some holes with 2 years of young talent being added

what we will get in FA this year will be some small term contracts to hold the fort until the young talent matures . i see no need to rush money to FA if you are committed to a proper rebuild

something will have to be done about garcon soon . and the choice should be keep him

Rg3 and KC need the best wr corp we can field in order to evaluate them

I see that I'm gonna have to walk you through this......so let's begin with two simple questions.....1. How long do you expect this change/rebuild/ reload to be complete? 2. How long is the average career of an NFL player? Yeah yeah it varies by position, just the average thank you.[/QUOTE]

3-4 years is my guess because i am looking at being a perennial contender . the avg length of a football players career is of no consequence to me in this discussion so i am ok with garcon's contract being done in 2017 because the free agents we are looking at now should only be bridges to getting drafted players in position to make a run

for the record i dont need to be walked through anything . you said we should agree to disgree in another thread and that is probably where it should go. i wouldnt let garcon go . if we do then so be it but my position on garcon isnt going to change unless he is becoming a locker room cancer

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Good-luck with that!

Well let's start with your "average career" argument. You do realize that the "average career" takes into account every player, including special teams players who play for a game or 2 as well as guys like Even Royster who play for a few years right? Now let's review Ryan Kerrigan, Trent Williams and B. Breeeland. According to your argument we should cut them as our rebuild will take longer than their career, I mean seeing as the average career is only 4-5 years or whatever. The problem of course is Ryan Kerrigan and Trent Williams will probably play another 7-8 year and Breeland another 10.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

John Keim 2/25

FWIW: I've heard nothing (yet) to indicate the Redskins will be making any sort of move with Garcon. Zero talks about his contract...

 

[skinsdad62]

John Keim 2/25

FWIW: I've heard nothing (yet) to indicate the Redskins will be making any sort of move with Garcon. Zero talks about his contract...

i dont think you will either

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Yeah I was sorry to read Dad's thread showing how a renegotiated contract wouldn't really work for the team. Oh well, I still want the team to retain one of the few productive players they have.

Again in 2012 the team won when he was in the lineup and lost when he was not. Very few players have had the direct correlation.