From Jason La Canfora today- JimmyG...thoughts?

[Payton]

No, the "good" QB's having "elite" seasons supports my argument. You need "elite" QB play to win the Super Bowl,close to 100% of the time. Meaning, you need a QB capable of doing that. Which is all I am saying. Then, we see from history... that without a true elite QB, you ALSO (like those teams) need a TOP defense. Half of those teams, had one of the top D's of all-time. Even if you completely take out those QB's elite seasons, It's still only 5 teams this side of the century who won without an quote; "Elite" QB. This isn't an argument. The VAST majority of the time you need an elite QB, and if you don't have that... you still need elite QB level play, unless you have Denver's D in 2015. What's the best way to get "elite" level QB play? Oh yeah... a fucking elite QB. lol

And YOU still miss the main point...

What in the HELL makes you think Garroppolo is going to be "elite"?

Your entire argument hinges on him becoming "elite". Where the fuck do you get that he is even CLOSE to this? 4 games with the Bellichick Pats and a busted shoulder?

Can I ask who is the last QB to start for Bellichick and the Pats who did NOT look good?

This entire paragraph is a contradiction. When Delhomme was young, even according to you; he "played out of his mind". He put up amazing passing numbers for those times, and that offense was definitely geared towards the passing game. With two pro bowl receivers, in Mushin and Steve Smith. So... how is that not building around a QB?

Actually I looked it up... He threw a nice amount of picks as well... I think to label his production as "elite" is WAY overstating it. The year they went to the Superbowl, Delhomme threw 19 TDs and 16 INTs... Hardly "Elite". I don't care WHAT era you played in...

He followed that up the next year with 29 TDs and 15 INTs... His Best year... The Panthers went 7-9 that year...

Does that sound like "Building around a QB to you?

And based on the way Delhomme tailed off, it seems more likely that the Panthers had an offense, with two pro bowl WRs (as you so astutely point out) that may have been a decent gig for ANY competent QB who stepped in there...

Also, Fox's team wasn't built around Peyton? What the fuck? Their D was horrendous his first year there in 2012, and he set the points for record. In 2013, when they went to the Super Bowl? They were the 23rd ranked defense. Without Peyton, they would have been a downright poor team. How is that not having a team that is built around your QB?

Peyton Manning is a set it and forget it QB... Are you suggesting that Fox formulated an offense for Manning?

Horseshit... We both know he came in and essentially ran the same offense that he did in Indy.

The team was there... They had just managed to make the playoffs and actually win a playoff game with Tim Fuckin' Tebow at the helm the previous season... THAT is a team that looks like its a QB away from going all the way, amiright?

I think its awesome that you believe a 3-13 Bears team with the 3rd overall pick is in a similar position, but I don't see it...

Not to mention, even if he didn't build around Delhomme in Carolina. Those were the early and mid-00's. Look at how much the game has changed now.

Okay, so now we backtrack and go back to the, "We can't go back that far.... Doesn't count."? Okay...

For the LAST time... a 2nd and 3rd for a franchise QB? That would be the #1 QB taken in this draft class? That' NOT overpaying. I cannot even comprehend how you think that.

Your way gets Fox fired and kickstarts another rebuild. Mine, makes us a possible playoff contender this season.

My way doesn't get Fox fired if ownership is onboard and understands what we're doing and sees progress...

And I guess I'll repeat myself that a 2nd and 3rd would be a lot for a QB that has started a couple of games in New England's offense... You keep bestowing this "elite" status on him. Where are you getting this from?

The Pats are selling that line... Again, I'm fine signing the guy, but don't want to be that team that buys this shit for a minute that the Ex-Patriots Backup is some sure thing.

You guys are delusional, and are still stuck in this mindset from 20 years ago. Where you think you can hide your QB. Give me a god damn break. What a complete and utter joke. Look around the league, for chrissake! Who has the most consistent success? Teams with great QB play.

No, I'm stuck in a mindset where I believe there are teams with offensive SYSTEMS that make a QB look good, and the Pats are most CERTAINLY one of them... Green Bay is another, if you need another example... (Not a diss on Brady or Rodgers, but this is a fact.). WE do NOT have a system like that...

Other teams that get consistently great QB play would include your "Chucker" teams like New Orleans... Or your teams that have a consistent system that has proven to work over time with STUDS at skill positions (Pittsburgh)...

I see us as more like MAYBE a Kansas City (Best case scenario)... Only they are also a team with a coach who has an offensive scheme that has stood the test of time and yes... Has done a good job of "hiding" a journeyman QB...

The offenses in the NFL have gotten prolific because of rules changes, not some sudden influx of "elite" quarterbacks...

A 2nd and a 3rd! My god... even for just a solid, consistent QB. That's utterly amazing.

Look, I wouldn't set torches and go burn down Halas Hall if we did this, but I still think its an overpay for a team that could very well be a year or so away from an ELITE DEFENSE under our coach who is a DEFENSIVE MINDED COACH if we just get a few more pieces...

I'd honestly LOVE to be Green Bay with that offense that is a well-oiled machine that Matt Flynn can run in a pinch, etc... I think we're much further from that than we are from going the "Build the defense and have a serviceable offense" route, which is more what Fox is about...

 

[Payton]

And here's the pre-draft write-up on your boy...

5th Quarterback taken that year.... Oooooooooooooooooooooooo

2014 NFL Draft Profile: Jimmy Garoppolo

Pay close attention to the Summary:

BOTTOM LINE
A decorated FCS passer, Garoppolo could excite quarterback coaches with his quick delivery, mental make-up and work habits, yet he still needs to prove he can fit the ball into tight windows and do more than carve up soft shells the way he regularly did on his way to a record-breaking performance in college. Possesses the physical tools to eventually earn an NFL starting job in a rhythm passing game with continued refinement but is more of a caretaker than a game changer and will require some patience adapting to the NFL game.

Hmmmm, rhythm passing game.... Doesn't sound like the Bears, but you know who it DOES sound like? (Hint... He's currently on this team who's asking for a lot to trade him.)

 

[Payton]

We have a top ten defense, right now. We're that one or two high level guys away from it really coming together We have an offensive line that REALLY started gelling last year. We have a young pro bowl RB. We lost our entire receiving corp and TE due to injuries. We were rolling out our entire practice squad the second half of the year. Get those guys healthy, bring back Jeffery along with Jimmy G, Kirk, McCarron... etc... Maybe another veteran WR that'll come cheap like Garcon, as an insurance policy for White. You cannot sit here and tell me we cannot compete with good QB play. It will elevate EVERYONE on that offense.

We are not that far man...

Guess I'm more pessimistic than you... LOL!!

Honestly, what I saw last year was a TON of effort and a team that couldn't stay healthy. I'll give you that. Would I like to settle the QB position? Most definitely.

I'll admit I have a serious hang up giving the effing Patriots anything but a swift kick in the ass for a guy who they already know they can't keep (unless strange circumstances dictate it)...

A 2nd and a 3rd isn't the end all be all, but more than I'd like to give.