Favorite Reads

[ill]

so by Lynch, you mean Locke Lamora and how you are essentially rooting for a thief?

I need to go back and reread Chuck Klosterman's I Wear the Black Hat. I think that had a good thought process on rooting for the bad guy, but it was more in the context of Breaking Bad or Tony Soprano.

 

[chf]

hmm, you may have pin pointed for me where my issue was. Looking back the fantasy I tend to prefer has a more high magic element to it than more Military Fantasy. I have not read anything from Abercrombie or Lynch, however I did not love Miles Camerons series the Traitor Son. Same goes for Jeff Wheeler with the King Fountain series, although that one is probably lighter than most of that kind of genre.

I think it has more to do with amount of magic than gritty dark feel, as I like Robin Hobb and Fitz's life is about a depressing as can be.

It would also explain why I like Sanderson so much.

See now I get it 100%. Abercrombie is my favorite 'new' author, but his stuff is sometimes gritty to the point of ridiculousness. You've got one story where the band of heroes has a poisoner, and a torturer in it.

But I won't let myself get pigeonholed either. As I mentioned earlier, I loved Tolkien, still do. But one of my other favorite fantasy authors is Guy Gavriel Kay, (he finished the Silmarillion) and while he doesn't do traditional high fantasy in that his worlds are 'low' magic, the good guys are good, and sometimes painfully so. Awesome writer though.

Good writing is good writing.

Which is why I felt compelled to argue with you about GOT.

It's almost stupidly ambitious. He TOTALLY needs an editor. He admits he screwed up when he splits the POV characters in books 3 and 4 (4 and 5?). So he's not perfect. But what an ambitious reach. What a world built.

Again, he's arguably been the most influential writer in the fantasy genre of the last 20 years. I'd be hard pressed to think of one moreso.

Let me toss this pebble in the pond for you to think about. Tolkien was actually very low magic. Gandalf didn't go around tossing fireballs or lightning bolts. He tricked those trolls into waiting for the sun. He let gravity defeat the Balrog.

So even the High --------> Low fantasy slider gets a bit... grey.

Anyway, fun discussion. It's hardly AGREEMENT that spurs these, always DISAGREEMENT.

 

[chf]

so by Lynch, you mean Locke Lamora and how you are essentially rooting for a thief?

I need to go back and reread Chuck Klosterman's I Wear the Black Hat. I think that had a good thought process on rooting for the bad guy, but it was more in the context of Breaking Bad or Tony Soprano.

Sure, it's right in Lynch's title, 'The Gentlemen BASTARDS.'

At any rate, Lynch lists Martin as being hugely influential on his writing. And GRRM pumps Lynch constantly.

 

[ill]

Sure, it's right in Lynch's title, 'The Gentlemen BASTARDS.'

At any rate, Lynch lists Martin as being hugely influential on his writing. And GRRM pumps Lynch constantly.

Rothfuss does as well.

 

[Mebert]

See now I get it 100%. Abercrombie is my favorite 'new' author, but his stuff is sometimes gritty to the point of ridiculousness. You've got one story where the band of heroes has a poisoner, and a torturer in it.

But I won't let myself get pigeonholed either. As I mentioned earlier, I loved Tolkien, still do. But one of my other favorite fantasy authors is Guy Gavriel Kay, (he finished the Silmarillion) and while he doesn't do traditional high fantasy in that his worlds are 'low' magic, the good guys are good, and sometimes painfully so. Awesome writer though.

Good writing is good writing.

Which is why I felt compelled to argue with you about GOT.

It's almost stupidly ambitious. He TOTALLY needs an editor. He admits he screwed up when he splits the POV characters in books 3 and 4 (4 and 5?). So he's not perfect. But what an ambitious reach. What a world built.

Again, he's arguably been the most influential writer in the fantasy genre of the last 20 years. I'd be hard pressed to think of one moreso.

Let me toss this pebble in the pond for you to think about. Tolkien was actually very low magic. Gandalf didn't go around tossing fireballs or lightning bolts. He tricked those trolls into waiting for the sun. He let gravity defeat the Balrog.

So even the High --------> Low fantasy slider gets a bit... grey.

Anyway, fun discussion. It's hardly AGREEMENT that spurs these, always DISAGREEMENT.

I don't say this very often as the result is never "meh" for fantasy fans, but I don't care for Tolkien. I respect that he basically kicked off the entire genre, but the books I never cared for. In fact the book that had the most impact on my reading was The Book of Three by Lloyd Alexander. That was the book that turned me into an avid reader as a kid, I did not care for reading before then.

I don't mind an antihero though. I love the Sandman Slim series(Different Genre). I was going to use Zane Halloway as the example, but looking back even though his job was "assassin" he leaned heavily on good side of the spectrum.

Have you read The Traitor Son?

 

[chf]

Rothfuss does as well.

I'm pretty sure that GRRM was one of the guys who formed the writers group that a lot of those dudes have belonged to. They all meet in the SW somewhere and talk writing.

One of the myriad side projects Martin has that prevent him from writing the last two fecking books.

 

[Mebert]

Rothfuss I don't mind, even if Kvothe came down with a serious case of "Too Good at Everything"

 

[chf]

I don't say this very often as the result is never "meh" for fantasy fans, but I don't care for Tolkien. I respect that he basically kicked off the entire genre, but the books I never cared for. In fact the book that had the most impact on my reading was The Book of Three by Lloyd Alexander. That was the book that turned me into an avid reader as a kid, I did not care for reading before then.

I don't mind an antihero though. I love the Sandman Slim series(Different Genre). I was going to use Zane Halloway as the example, but looking back even though his job was "assassin" he leaned heavily on good side of the spectrum.

Have you read The Traitor Son?

Heh, see I knew we'd agree more than we disagree.

I came to Tolkien late, I'd read Alexander's stuff years before.

And I believe I've read the first three of Cameron's books. Like them, don't love them. They're on my 'buy' list, but not my 'going to shell out for the hardcover' list.

But obviously there's a big reveal coming (a la Martin!) with the Red Knight.

 

[chf]

Rothfuss I don't mind, even if Kvothe came down with a serious case of "Too Good at Everything"

That's the biggest criticism of GG Kay. His heroes are Gary Stu/Mary Sues.

 

[ill]

Rothfuss I don't mind, even if Kvothe came down with a serious case of "Too Good at Everything"

at least in his youth. In his old age, he seems to suck at everything but storytelling.

 

[Edonidd]

Not to jump in the middle of an argument, but I hardly view Lynch or Rothfuss as part of the "Grey Fantasy" movement. Both Kvothe and Locke are about as morally ambiguous as fucking Robin Hood.

I think of "traditional fantasy" kind of like Micheal Keaton's Batman. He might be wearing all black, but there's sure a lot of color left around him, and he whispers to make sure it isn't too scary. While the grey fantasy thing is more like Christian Bale's Batman. The whole feeling is different, it's unrelenting and really over the top to make sure you realize how dark it is. He doesn't whisper at you anymore, he freaking growlscreams it. (I appologize that growlscream isn't a word, but I'm not a best selling author, I need to make up new words to get my point across.)

When I hear grey fantasy I think of Cook and the Black Company immediately. Erikson and Esslemont on their Malazan books. Maybe even Weeks and possibly Mistborn. And obviously Abercrombie, although I only read his first 3 or 4 books.

 

[chf]

Not to jump in the middle of an argument, but I hardly view Lynch or Rothfuss as part of the "Grey Fantasy" movement. Both Kvothe and Locke are about as morally ambiguous as fucking Robin Hood.

I think of "traditional fantasy" kind of like Micheal Keaton's Batman. He might be wearing all black, but there's sure a lot of color left around him, and he whispers to make sure it isn't too scary. While the grey fantasy thing is more like Christian Bale's Batman. The whole feeling is different, it's unrelenting and really over the top to make sure you realize how dark it is. He doesn't whisper at you anymore, he freaking growlscreams it. (I appologize that growlscream isn't a word, but I'm not a best selling author, I need to make up new words to get my point across.)

When I hear grey fantasy I think of Cook and the Black Company immediately. Erikson and Esslemont on their Malazan books. Maybe even Weeks and possibly Mistborn. And obviously Abercrombie, although I only read his first 3 or 4 books.

Just a question of degree I suppose. Even Abercrombie, his protagonists WANT to be good people, they just fail hard at it. The Gentlemen Bastards ain't Glenn Cook, no... but they're closer to that than they are to Eddings or Tolkien or any of other more 'traditional' fantasy writers.

Haven't re-read Rothfuss since my first time cracking the books, so my memory is a bit fuzzy.

 

[ill]

finally finished SevenEves and am looking forward to it adapting to the big screen.

The girlfriend grabbed a book called Infomacracy from the library that I am going to give a shot. It is some futuristic world when the entire world is under a number of what feels like corporate governments and you move to where the government suits you (I think). It's an interesting concept, but not sure I am liking the writing.

 

[ill]

there were rumors yesterday that the release date for the next Song of Ice and Fire book, The Winds of Winter, had been leaked as March 2017. Just looked it up again and that rumor has been squashed. Boooooooooo

 

[ill]

just got this in from the library. I liked his other two books (The Disappearing Sppon and The Violinists Thumb) and really looking forward to read more of his stuff.

 

[Omar 382]

My latest Audible review

"ACTUAL RATING: 3.5/5 stars
ROUNDED RATING: 4/5 stars

As I said in my previous review, I wish Audible allowed half star ratings. This book clocks in right between 3 and 4 stars at 3.5/5.

Red Rising is Pierce Brown's bizzaro-world combination on The Hunger Games and Game of Thrones. Unfortunately, the "cool" action sequences, as penned by Brown, cannot hold a light to that of Suzanne Collin's writing (hopefully, it will play better on the big screen),and he also writes no character whose dialogue even approaches that of Tyrion in company in Game of Thrones. It was an interesting concept to mix the two, but I felt that in the hands of a better writer, we could have been left with a more interesting story.

The first 60 pages/2 hours of the book are spellbinding. We become encapsulated in the world of Darrow, a Red, the lowest-born color in society's rankings, as we watch him toil in the land of Mars. We sense the fury and rage he and his family feel towards those in power; a feeling of comradely building in them as peers; but yet hopelessness that they can do nothing about their situation. Yada yada event, yada yada turning point and Darrow is not a high-born Gold, enabled with the power to infiltrate the high society and put an end to the tyrannous (no, not Tyrion- sorry to get your hopes up) Arch-Governer.

But alas, that's not the direction Pierce Brown decided to take. Instead of an espionage thriller, or even a suspense novel, we're left with 200 pages of some BS game that the Arch-Governer orchestrated. Sound similar? Yeah, we got an excellent plot buildup, and then a complete remake of The Hunger Games with poorer and more diluted action scenes and less interesting characters. A lot could have been made with this premise- a sci-fi novel in outer space with a vengeful teenager whose wife has been killed, who hates the people he inhabits, and wants to kill those in power. Does the novel's love subplot sound interesting after what I just described?

But Red Rising isn't without its punches. Its main character, Darrow, is different than other recent main characters in these type of novels in that he isn't always good. He certainly isn't what you would consider a classic anti-hero, like Tony Soprano or Walter White, but he does have a strain of immorality and ruthlessness in him that intrigues the reader. His female running mate is loyal, and very witty to boot.

I enjoyed Red Rising. I highly enjoyed the first two hours, and then minorly enjoyed the middle part, and adequately enjoyed the final three chapters or so. I understand that much of it is likely a set-up for the subsequent novels, which I will probably get to in due time, but this first chapter did not grab me enough to read them before I start "The Shining." I recommend Red Rising, but do not be surprised if there are long "events" of action and fighting that have you struggling to stifle a yawn; nor if there are cliched supporting characters; nor if the villain is woefully underdeveloped. Just go in with the expectation that the novel will be a YA novel set in outer space ~700 years from now, and all that entails, and you should be fine."

 

[Cobrabit]

While there isn't a sub forum for books, I figured we could have a thread for some of the books that you've enjoyed, as many of these books have or will be made into a movie or TV series (ala The Song of Ice and Fire - Game of Thrones).

After reading all off the available SoIF books released thus far (come on Winds of Winter!) and pretty much anything related to the main storyline (Knight of the Seven Kingdoms and the World of Ice and Fire), I needed something to bide my time, as I listen to audiobooks often while taking the kiddos to daycare and when I'm working in my office. One series I'd recommend for those that enjoy George RR Martin would be the Kingkiller Cronicles by Patrick Rothfuss. Alas, he's only released the first two in the storyline of Kvothe, with the final third book being held up, as he's also working on a movie/TV series with Liongate, similar to GRRM. The first two books were amazing and I'm actually going back through them now.

Dawn of Wonder (The Wakening series) by Jonathon Renshaw is also similar and pretty good, but only the first book is out this far.

I also used to listen to many audiobooks by Clive Cussler and they were also interesting, although not in the same epic fantasy genre as those listed above.

If you've got some recommendations to speak of, feel free to post here. If there is enough interest, we could have some genre specific threads made to keep them separate, but didn't want to clog up this forum unless there was an interest to discuss the books in which many of today's movies and TV series are based.

 

[flyerhawk]

The Expanse novels are really enjoyable, although somewhat uneven.

 

[chf]

The Expanse novels are really enjoyable, although somewhat uneven.

Huh, I didn't see real differences in the novels.

At any rate, sci-fi and fantasy with multiple books offerings...

Joe Abercrombie (First Law and standalone follows)
Richard Morgan - Takeshi Kovaks series

Those might be a bit uh, violent for the car with the kids, but if you're listening to GRRM, then probably safe.

Just got finished with Ian Tregillis' 'Mechanical' series, which is kinda' steampunk, but imo, without the negative connotations of same.

Ian M. Banks died last year I think, maybe 2015... his 'Culture' novels are superb, but are a bit... uh... slow for some people. If you need page-turning action, maybe give a miss. 'Use of Weapons,' is superb.

 

[flyerhawk]

Huh, I didn't see real differences in the novels.

I loved the first book. Liked the 2nd book. Thought the 3rd and 4th book were ok. 5 and 6 were probably 2 and 3 on my favorite list.

At any rate, sci-fi and fantasy with multiple books offerings...

Joe Abercrombie (First Law and standalone follows)
Richard Morgan - Takeshi Kovaks series

Still don't get your love Abercrombie.