Clowney - yes or no?

[ATL96Steeler]

Hypothetical...the local sportstalk guys ran with this trade the other day.

HOU is holding the #1 overall pick open for discussion...that part is not hypothetical.

Stocked with 10 draft picks including 1.6, 2.37, 3.68, 4.103

Would you package 1.6, 3.68, and 4.103 to get Clowney?

On this team I would do it and use 2.37 to get an OT...the name starting to rise is Morgan Moses. Still would have a 4th round pick...4.139

IMO it makes the best sense for HOU unless they think Bortles is a truly a franchise QB. Including their picks they would have 6 slots within the 1st 102.


What say you?

 

[Demonjoe93]

Let's just not do what we did to get Julio. What's most important for us in this draft (and free-agency) is to improve on depth. In my opinion, the main reason we fell apart on O-line and pass rush last season was because of our lack of depth. When we lost Sam and others on O-line, it never got any better; same for pass rush. If we can get Clowney without giving up an arm and a leg, then do it; otherwise, just keep the picks.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I'm with that, but in this case you'd be giving up 3rd rounder #68, and a 4th rounder #102.

ATL has a 4th round comp pick #132 so only the 3rd round without a pick.

I would not give up my 2nd round pick, but I would do it for a 3rd & 4th.

OL depth, with the exception of C after McClure, they had depth, TD just has made some bad picks, and imo coach Smith made the camps/practice too easy for the OL/DL...because the DL was also weak, even in full out practice, they could not expose the OL before the season hit.

What bothers me more about the OL than anything was from day one (before Baker went down).

Smitty was going to trot out C Konz , RG Reynolds, RT Holmes (1st year starters in the NFL at their respective position)...to restate, 3 of the 5 starters had never started at that position in the NFL. Yet, TD is out spending money on a RB, and a DE just to replace the DE he chose not to resign. He didn't imporve the team, he just replaced parts.

Improving the team was keeping Abe, then getting Osi, now you've got some pass rush balance.

Sorry about the rant...depth...the JJ deal definitely hurt, but they've spent picks on OL and DL...I'm not against taking a stud OT @ 6...but this is one of the deepest OL drafts in a long time...I think you can get a player not as polished but should play some @ RT this season in the 2nd round and maybe '15 move to LT and swap Baker to RT.

 

[Demonjoe93]

For a third and fourth? Hell yeah, I'll take it!

 

[bravesfan]

Houston has him and they'll want too much for him so....no

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Houston has him and they'll want too much for him so....no

I don't think they have the upper hand.

1. Draft Clowney...they play a base 3-4, Clowney is a base 4-3 DE, if Watt wasn't there, you take this pick and build around him...with Watt, you stay the course making Clowney not as valuable to you. ATL & JAX know this as well.

2. Draft Bortles...most people are trying to manufacture reasons to make him the best of the top 4 QBs...he could be a franchise QB and he could be a 1 contract QB...imo he's not worth taking #1 overall when you have suitors that will give you 2 picks for the #1 slot. Mettenberger jumps out at me with #33...but from #3 or #6, there is a good chance that you can get one of the top 4 QBs if QB is that high on your radar.

3. Draft Mack...he better fits the 3-4 scheme as an OLB that can rush the QB. Again, is he worth 2 extra picks that you could obtain in a trade...@3 he could still be there...@ 6 he might be gone, but you also need a #2 WR with 2 high grade players, 1 will be on the board @ 6..

4. Trade the pick...JAX and ATL are really the best 2 options for HOU because they stay in the top 10...ATL might have to sweeten the pot slightly because they are in the 6 spot, but again, they have 10 picks. Compared to the other 3 options, long term trading the pick might the best option for HOU.

They don't have quite as much clout in this as you might think because both ATL and JAX are pretty much assured to get a starter at a need position in their respective spots...they don't have to give up the farm.

 

[Johnnydollaz89]

Hypothetical...the local sportstalk guys ran with this trade the other day.

HOU is holding the #1 overall pick open for discussion...that part is not hypothetical.

Stocked with 10 draft picks including 1.6, 2.37, 3.68, 4.103

Would you package 1.6, 3.68, and 4.103 to get Clowney?

On this team I would do it and use 2.37 to get an OT...the name starting to rise is Morgan Moses. Still would have a 4th round pick...4.139

IMO it makes the best sense for HOU unless they think Bortles is a truly a franchise QB. Including their picks they would have 6 slots within the 1st 102.


What say you?

I say, yes! We need a game changer on the defensive side of the ball, like Clowney!

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I say, yes! We need a game changer on the defensive side of the ball, like Clowney!

To me it seems like a no brainer yes, but the Julio trade still has some people gun shy about giving up picks...I forget the final poll number that came up with on the radio show, but it was closer than you would believe...about 60% would do it, roughly 40% would not.

The more I think about this, the more inclined I am to think HOU will trade with JAX or ATL.

 

[night]

I think we're in a position where we don't need to give up much (if anything) to find a guy who would make an instant impact on the field. If we could find a team desperate for a QB I'd almost want to trade down for more high quality picks so we have a little extra depth. After Clowney is off the board the next best DE probably isn't going off the board until the 2nd round anyways. Kouandjio will be hanging around late in the first to early second round too. Even if we traded down for someone else's first and their 2nd this year we could conceivably have 3 players who are top 3-4 at their position in the draft at some spots that need to be filled (like OT, LB, and TE) after the 1st and 2nd rounds were over.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I think we're in a position where we don't need to give up much (if anything) to find a guy who would make an instant impact on the field. If we could find a team desperate for a QB I'd almost want to trade down for more high quality picks so we have a little extra depth. After Clowney is off the board the next best DE probably isn't going off the board until the 2nd round anyways. Kouandjio will be hanging around late in the first to early second round too. Even if we traded down for someone else's first and their 2nd this year we could conceivably have 3 players who are top 3-4 at their position in the draft at some spots that need to be filled (like OT, LB, and TE) after the 1st and 2nd rounds were over.

I agree in part...imo 6 gets you in front MIN, but not high enough to get ensure a QB if HOU takes Bortles.

Trade down...I don't think anyone will swap picks in the 1st and give up a 2nd rounder this year...a 3rd maybe.
With 10 picks already in the fold, more picks doesn't really excite me...that many rookies should not make a playoff caliber team.

But, let's say a team like PIT really wants Evans and they know DET also wants him. They offer their 1st rd (15th) and a 3rd rounder. I would do that if Clowney is out of the mix because I do like your point about taking a Kouandjio later in the 1st.

DEs...yea, as far as traditional 4-3 guys go, the next guy probably does go late 1st early 2nd round, but Mack & Barr can work as hybrid rush DEs the way Nolan likes to use flexible players.

I still say, make the call to HOU, offer a 3rd & 4th (ATL has 2 4th rd) and see what happens...if they ask for more, you can pass.

 

[Johnnydollaz89]

To me it seems like a no brainer yes, but the Julio trade still has some people gun shy about giving up picks...I forget the final poll number that came up with on the radio show, but it was closer than you would believe...about 60% would do it, roughly 40% would not.

The more I think about this, the more inclined I am to think HOU will trade with JAX or ATL.

I'd do that JJ trade 10/10 times, every time. It may have been a lot, but he's a game-changer at the WR position. And I think Clowney may be the same on the defensive side, so it may be worth it.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I'd do that JJ trade 10/10 times, every time. It may have been a lot, but he's a game-changer at the WR position. And I think Clowney may be the same on the defensive side, so it may be worth it.

I'm with you on both accounts...JJ is truly a game changer...just needs to stay healthy...JC...if HOU wants my 2nd I wouldn't do it, but swapping 1st, plus a 3rd & 4th I do it.

Listening to these draftniks lately HOU may ask for too much, but they are playing the game stating in the media their choices are down to Clowney and your guy Manziel.

 

[Johnnydollaz89]

I'm with you on both accounts...JJ is truly a game changer...just needs to stay healthy...JC...if HOU wants my 2nd I wouldn't do it, but swapping 1st, plus a 3rd & 4th I do it.

Listening to these draftniks lately HOU may ask for too much, but they are playing the game stating in the media their choices are down to Clowney and your guy Manziel.

I don't even know who they want anymore. I still think they end up trading the pick.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I don't even know who they want anymore. I still think they end up trading the pick.

That means an effective smokescreen I guess.

I have no idea either, but my gut tells me they are not going to take Clowney. They could just use the pick on Manziel, but I don't think they will leave that many picks on the table for STL to trade down.

I will say...I've never been quite this connected to the NFL draft. I'll make some time next week to watch some of it....normally just follow it online.

 

[night]

I agree in part...imo 6 gets you in front MIN, but not high enough to get ensure a QB if HOU takes Bortles.

Trade down...I don't think anyone will swap picks in the 1st and give up a 2nd rounder this year...a 3rd maybe.
With 10 picks already in the fold, more picks doesn't really excite me...that many rookies should not make a playoff caliber team.

But, let's say a team like PIT really wants Evans and they know DET also wants him. They offer their 1st rd (15th) and a 3rd rounder. I would do that if Clowney is out of the mix because I do like your point about taking a Kouandjio later in the 1st.

DEs...yea, as far as traditional 4-3 guys go, the next guy probably does go late 1st early 2nd round, but Mack & Barr can work as hybrid rush DEs the way Nolan likes to use flexible players.

I still say, make the call to HOU, offer a 3rd & 4th (ATL has 2 4th rd) and see what happens...if they ask for more, you can pass.

Do you think he is worth the picks? I just think we're better off going with max value from the draft whether we have to go 6 or later. Either way we have a blue chip player to select plus all of the later draft picks.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Do you think he is worth the picks? I just think we're better off going with max value from the draft whether we have to go 6 or later. Either way we have a blue chip player to select plus all of the later draft picks.

I wish I could say he was for certain, but idk.

Standing pat. My feeling here is this...we all know ATL needs DE/OLB, S, OT...you can put them in the order you like.

@ 6, they can cure any one of those spots with a starter level talent. But, taking a S that high is a reach, and both Pryor and Dix will be gone @ 37, so really OT/DE/OLB is the pick. For the sake of this exercise, lets say they get Matthews. OT solved, now DE/OLB/S remain as needs.

@37, DE...Ealy, Crichton, Ford, you're hoping one of them are on the board and there's a good chance one of them will be. Of the option at S, Ward, or Buchanon are probably your best bets....say Ford is the pick. 2 spots down, now S is your biggest need.

@68, this is where the wheels come off a tad because I think you're looking at maybe the 4th or 5th S off the board...they might be better off looking at a semi-need such as a RB to get a higher rated player.

@103, maybe a Dion Bailey, Ladler, or Reynolds

I could live with those 4 picks in lieu of trading for Clowney and giving up 68 and 103, but the way the talent is set up this year, I would prefer to have the pass rusher earlier. There are several OTs options @37 that might not be day one starters, but should play early and eventually start. Morgan Moses, Kouandjio, Lewan James, Richardson are some names..

Now...insert Clowney in there and take away 68 & 103...you get your OT @ 37, and you still have the 4th round comp pick (139 I think) to get a S and future RB, depth @ LB, etc with the other picks.

That's why I would do it for 6, 68, and 103, you're not really killing your draft.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Local sportstalk radio had Steve Maricucci (NFL network) on when I was out during lunch today.

Night...he seems to be on the same page with you.

#1 He feels it will take more than ATL's 3rd & 4th round pick...#2 He think Clowney is going to be a pro bowl player, but feels ATL is so deficient @ OT that he would just stay @ 6 and take either Robinson or Matthews...if Mack or Clowney are gone. Then take his chances on getting Ford, Ealy, etc. with #37.

If his #1 is right, then I agree..stay @ 6.

 

[Johnnydollaz89]

Agreed. Take Matthews or Robinson at that spot. I want Clowney, but I don't want to surrender many picks for him.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

The Texans GM has pretty much but an end to ATL moving up to #1...reportedly they want two #1 picks and Dimitroff didn't waste any time saying thanks, but no thanks.

Of course the draft is still ahead of us meaning things can change because imo no one is going to offer up two #1 picks for Clowney...I would be hardpressed to see anyone giving up a 1st & 2nd actually, but that's just me.

Agree on the guys you mentioned @ 6, and more than likely they will get a shot at Ford, Ealy, or Crichton in the 2nd. I could see him dealing to get back into the bottom of the 1st to get Ford if they really like him and I know Smitty remembers him well from the Sr. Bowl as he coached in the game.

 

[night]

Whoa, two number 1 picks? That almost just sounds like someone asking for too much just to see if the other party is willing to throw in something extra than they have previously offered.

What if Houston would settle for a 2nd, would you be happy with that deal? I still think that sounds pretty steep. I like the staying put approach. It's not sexy but we don't need to get cute in this draft.