Cactus schedule

[JohnU]

Lance McAlister followed the Reds Hot Stove show last night discussing whether the Reds had reached the point where there's fan apathy. (Lack of interest)

Any thoughts?

Fan apathy is basically people who have chosen to believe that going to see a ballgame is a waste of time because the team isn't going to win anything. Considering the Reds have 5 W.S. titles in the entire history of the franchise, it's somewhat odd that the Reds media experts have come to that.

I think there's less a sense of apathy than one of resignation that the Reds are going to suck a little more than we want, a little less maybe than we expect but, living here in the footprint of the Chicago teams, I have listened to louder whines for a longer time ... only now the Cubs fans are cockier than a barnyard full of roosters. I won't discuss the White Sox. It defies conversation.

McAlister probably would like to make us believe there is apathy because he has deemed it likely that there is some -- they were the ones selling the "rebuild story" and wondering a year ago why the fans were riled up because the team didn't play well. "Well," they said, "what do you EXPECT with a rebuild?"

This is probably a longer answer than is useful but the Reds have had a long history of finishing in the 2nd division. We love to recall the BRM years as if they were stuck to the wall forever. A very large percentage of fans weren't even born when those teams played and many who were aren't likely to remember much about it unless they keep getting it drilled into their heads.

So everyone who is over 50 loves to compare those guys with the team we see today. This is a standard Reds team from any year in the 21st century, 2010-12-13 aside ... and for most of my life, finishing 4th was always considered a moral victory. The 2012 story is probably the one that bites into our craw since it was clearly a serious contender. The window slammed on our fingers and we still have the bandages on. That's important to remember because the crash came quickly. Very quickly. Nobody was ready for the long fall, let alone the sudden thud.

Apathy? Nah ... that's what they do in Denver. Frustration? That's what they did in Cubs country for 108 years. Disappointment? That's what Nationals fans do.

Reds fans are just ... Reds fans. Not arrogant like the heathens in St. Louis or San Francisco. Just fans. It's our team. I don't think the core base will ever be apathetic. We will give a shit. We always have.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Great post John.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

If we use attendance as a measuring stick, then yeah, I'd say there's a degree of apathy when a team has a losing season.

The word fan encompasses a wild range of interest. But even as a true fan's level of interest may wane during tough times, it is easily reignited.

I'm a believer in:
Once a fan, Always a fan

 

[JohnU]

All real Reds fans know this, but:

Reds fan base stretches from Indianapolis east to Columbus, south to Wheeling, back southwest to Nashville and northwest to Terre Haute. That includes most of Kentucky, almost all of Indiana that counts as "civilized" and the parts of Ohio that aren't close to Detroit or Cleveland, or Pittsburgh. It's a very large footprint and it's been there for a very long time. That was achieved by radio. Waite Hoyt, Pat Moran, Jim Kennedy, Claude Sullivan, Al Michaels, Jim McIntrye, Marty and Joe ... others too numerous to mention.

Why attendance in the Reds ballparks is unpredictable and usually near the bottom of the standings is because getting to the QC for many years was the product of sheer determination. I grew up in Franklin County IN (Brookville) and it was literally a nightmare taking US 52 down Harrison Avenue, around wherever the ballpark was (I was a kid, so I can't recall much, other than Cleves) ... and after we got there, paying some kid 50 cents to "watch" our car. Usually a kid of color. We didn't have "those people" in our town. We gave the kid the 50 cents because, well ... that's how it was done.

The point is, the Reds have a very difficult time enticing people from Chillcothe or Lexington or Bluefish, or wherever, to drive 3 hours to see a ballgame on weeknights. It's been a challenge. Toss in the risk of weather and it's probably not a stretch to be glad 30,000 people show up for any game, period.

Attendance for a team like the Reds is a thin measure of success. The so-called "school nights" are not only about the kids, but about Mom and Dad who have to rise and shine at 7 a.m. to negotiate that god-awful traffic in the Q.C. I hate driving in Cincy, love the town.

In Chicago, 40,000 people walk past Wrigley Field off the CTA every day.

Anybody who lived in the Tri-State knows about this and it's probably unique among big league operations to have a fan base built so MANY years ago by the magic of radio. The Reds always were linked to those radio voices. Getting to Crosley was a rare event -- and attendance there was awful toward the end, as we all know why. Riverfront? Much better but I think a lot of fans disliked that plastic grass and really terrible seating. GABP is a very nice. The downtown is amazing. A lot of folks go to those trendy bars and burger joints, watch the Reds on the big screen. I think that's not about apathy. Baseball is just one of many things that people do these days. It's not THE reason to visit the Q.C. Many years ago, it was the ONLY reason and getting there was 2/3 of the battle.

Marty B is not a legend because he is truly unique. He is a legend because he is part of a very long line of people who pumped the blood through the Reds fans' veins. Those radio guys were always our link to the team. What's happened in the last 20 years is that a lot of pretenders have decided to weigh in on that.

There are too many metrics experts and too many McAlisters all trying to sell us on the critique of what's wrong with the Reds, ranging from Walt's front office ineptitude to Votto's unwillingness to swing at 3-1 pitches.

When i was growing up, those voices didn't exist, not really. Oh, there were scribes with the Inquirer and the Post-Times Star. There was "some" television (George Bryson and Hudepohl!) ... baseball was gentle. What was said in the lockerroom stayed there. Nobody was ratting on Phillips for calling the Cardinals "whiny little bitches." Nobody did that. Mat Latos would not have said what he said, because even saying it, we would never have heard that. Frank Robinson was a very angry man. We didn't learn that till many years after he left a racist town. We didn't know that stuff because we were not inclined to pay attention. Perhaps in a way, that was a REAL form of apathy. Just win the game and leave your problems at home.

I guess I just felt like rambling on about my memories, observations and opinions. I think it's just wrong to slap the word ""apathy"" on this franchise without context. If anything we are not apathetic. If we were, we would not be unhappy that the team is losing. We wouldn't care.

 

[JohnU]

Cingrani ... 1 inning today and 2 walks. I guess his "cutter" was just slicing.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

TC walks one per inning with primarily fastballs. Now he has two pitches, he walks two. Make sense to me.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Amir Garrett appears to be in the driver's seat for a rotation spot.

 

[JohnU]

Amir Garrett appears to be in the driver's seat for a rotation spot.

With Adleman and Feldman in the rotation, I don't see how we can go wrong. Finnegan is a lock. Reed, probably. Garrett should get a chance. I'd support that.

Disco will be on the DL, I'd bet pretty soon.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Even though I didn't renew my tickets this year, it's not apathy- it's protest. I'm pissed off, because I do NOT believe this is a "rebuild". I believe it's much simpler than that- it's simply a profit margin increase by decreasing payroll (while increasing prices). Since the Dusty Baker era, the Reds have consistently traded players substantially below market value, and it's gotten worse, not better, since. There are only about half a dozen position players in the entire Reds farm that have starting MLB potential, and pitching prospects above the MLB bullpen ceiling are as bleak. Hell, more than half the REDS rotation project as journeyman MLB relievers as their future.

Not blaming the Reds for the financial environment that makes it impossible to field a competitive MLB roster after paying Joey Votto and Homer Bailey, but I do blame them for (either) the APATHY or incompetence to actually fail again to at least attempt to assemble a farm system that can do better than produce ZERO homegrown OF that could even put two consecutive MLB seasons with BOTH 500 AB AND a minimum of .260 BA, more often in the last 30 years. THIS team hasn't had a clue how to "develop" talent for that long....and obviously they don't have a lot of recent evidence to suggest they even recognize it in trade while giving up talented players they can't afford to keep, or replace from any other source, especially their embarrassingly underperforming farm system.

If they can't spend and win, they sure can lose cheaper. It's easier than actually hiring smart people that know the secret to winning baseball organizations is not only finding talent, but actually insisting on execution of development of it to fill real needs at the big club, and not squandering it when you have some.

I see no evidence the Williams organization has learned anything except how to maximise profit in a declining revue environment. If anyone believes the Reds can win 90 games anytime in the effective playing lifetime of a current 25 man roster player, they see something I don't. Maybe the players drafted from 2017-2020 can make that difference by 2022 ? Not unless they are MLB ready when they sign.

 

[JohnU]

I see no evidence the Williams organization has learned anything except how to maximise profit in a declining revue environment. If anyone believes the Reds can win 90 games anytime in the effective playing lifetime of a current 25 man roster player, they see something I don't. Maybe the players drafted from 2017-2020 can make that difference by 2022 ? Not unless they are MLB ready when they sign.

IF I saw some hope that the current pitching staff was another year away from jelling into a decent 3-4 rotation, I'd be more optimistic. But until another Cueto steps up, that's a pitching staff that will keep this team in the bottom half of the league. There simply is not a pitcher who can be a streak stopper. Ah, we all know who the pitchers are and what they are capable of doing. Nothing new there to report.

Seeing the young guys who might have a bit of a future, it's kind of fun wondering which one of them will just "get it" and suddenly become another Sonny Gray or some such guy.

I do agree that I am not seeing a rebuild, as if there really IS such a thing. What has happened is that the best guy available has been given the job -- be that Herrera or Schebler or maybe even Peraza.

I am also still waiting for the 6 or so pitching coaches on this outfit to show somebody how to get past the 5th inning without throwing 100 pitches by the 4th.

 

[JohnU]

This has nothing to do with anything but

IT'S CORKY FUCKIN' MILLER.

 

[Redsfan1507]

IF I saw some hope that the current pitching staff was another year away from jelling into a decent 3-4 rotation, I'd be more optimistic. But until another Cueto steps up, that's a pitching staff that will keep this team in the bottom half of the league. There simply is not a pitcher who can be a streak stopper. Ah, we all know who the pitchers are and what they are capable of doing. Nothing new there to report.

John- I think Iglesias could be the new Cueto....if he had a chance....kinda like Chapman was the new Randy Johnson, Lefty Grove, Grover Alexander, or who-ever, but once again, THAT guy is stuck in the Reds bullpen for some excuse about saving his arm, or something.

IMO, there is no "saving" an arm if you pitch for a living, so I haven't a clue what they are doing. As the great Yoda said " There is no try. Do or do not". You gotta pitch, to pitch. It would be different if the guy has only one pitch-like so many delegated to relief....I could argue til the cows come home over the merits of throwing 120 pitches at one time, once a week as a starter, vs. throwing 120 pitches a week tossing 1-3 innings (in Iglesias' proposed role) 3-4 different times a week. There are no metrics I've ever seen that suggests one is less likely to injure than the other. If this team could get 6 pitchers that could make 100 pitches last 6 innings, I would toss a 6 man rotation and kick 2 of them off in September at callup time to control innings before I would schedule 2 bullpenners for 2-3 innings twice a week each...especially in a rotation that you never know of the 5th day starter is going to need help in the 4th inning too. Sounds like a great way to make a bullshit rotation destroy your bullpen too....IMO, A bullpen assignment for the best SP on a dead to the neck loser is a waste of time, talent and money. If this were a tactic of the NBA 76'rs, I'd say they were trying to lose for the lottery pick.

 

[JohnU]

In a parallel universe, the Reds were by-god determined that Homer Bailey was gonna ace this staff. The guy has about 20 innings in 2 years.

I am fine with building a bullpen out of spring training as opposed to buying it or trading for it. So we shall see. I think adding Storen was probably a good idea but then again, Ohlendorf ....

Most useful guy on this team right now is Tim Adleman, who can basically stay with the big club because he is willing to throw the ball over the plate.

 

[JohnU]

One assumes that Jumbo is just sharpening up his game.
One hopes that, at least.

 

[eburg5000]

In all my years of being a Reds fan, I don't know if I've ever been as frustrated with them as I am now. What was the goal a few years back? To be competitive by 2018. Well they better work hard this year.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

The last I heard Jumbo was going to the WBC. I'm not sure he has a bullpen job locked up, but that's his choice. I think Jumbo would be on a short rope if he makes the OD roster.

Tim Adleman is helping himself. He had a nice outing yesterday stretching out to 3 innings.

Robert Stephenson stepped up his game yesterday striking out 4 in two scoreless innings. Hopefully he builds from there.

Within the next couple weeks we'll have more clarity in who Price likes for the rotation. They have to get them stretched out and there's only so many innings to go around. Garrett and Adleman are the first two to go 3 innings.

We'll see if Scott Feldman can make it three today. He got into a lot of full counts first time out and threw 40+ pitches in 1.2 innings.

Desclafani has began throwing and could be ready for OD..... maybe? I wouldn't put his name in stone just yet.

I like the way Brandon Finnegan finished last season off. He's only 23-24 and I think he's going to be a good one. Five years of team control left on the young man.

The Reds need a second lefty in the pen. Cody Reed threw the ball well last time out, but I don't know if he's destined for the pen. I like the kid. Wandy Peralta has pitched well after a poor first outing and could be the second lefty if he can continue to throw strikes.

Pitching well in ST doesn't guarantee a OD roster spot, but it put's you in position when there's a need.... and there's always an eventual need via injury or poor performance. Options and a guys current roster status always plays a role.

 

[JohnU]

Usually I have learned that if a guy isn't ready for OD, he doesn't show up until at least June 1.
So if Disco doesn't answer the bell, I'd say Adleman, Finny, Feldman, Reed and Garrett are the first five. I like lefties as much as anybody but having 3 in the rotation is a peculiar mix.

 

[JohnU]

Feldman stepping it up. So far, so good.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Word is Disco has a sore elbow. Reds propaganda is he'll be ready on day 2 though ;/

Tim Kremchek is probably licking his chops....has that guy ever had a patient he only worked on once ?

Reds join Rockies and Brewers for the bottom of the pitching staff barrell in the NL. These guys may have a 5.00 Ernie.

 

[JohnU]

Reds join Rockies and Brewers for the bottom of the pitching staff barrell in the NL. These guys may have a 5.00 Ernie.

Looking at how some pitching staffs are on a thin line between a bunch of No. 3 guys and calling RailCats manager Greg Tagert in Gary, I would guess that the tighter strike zone will be a real big deal this year.