Butch Jones and Jim Harbaugh Are Both 6-5 in Their Last 11 Games

[Red_Alert]

Even one week might help but we have to wait until the last week for Rutgers. But it's only going to get worse with Penn State next week and Ohio State the week after that.

Has Rutgers finally turned the corner with back to back wins over Illinois and Purdue though?
Their next test is @ Michigan.

 

[7Samurai13]

Has Rutgers finally turned the corner with back to back wins over Illinois and Purdue though?
Their next test is @ Michigan.

I wouldn't say that yet. Let's see what they do this weekend and if they can keep it competitive.

 

[Red_Alert]

I wouldn't say that yet. Let's see what they do this weekend and if they can keep it competitive.

24 point dogs. hmmmmm

 

[7Samurai13]

24 point dogs. hmmmmm

Can O'Korn score 24 points? If Michigan isn't starting Peters against Rutgers it is a huge indictment on where Peters is at in his development process.

 

[Red_Alert]

Can O'Korn score 24 points? If Michigan isn't starting Peters against Rutgers it is a huge indictment on where Peters is at in his development process.

Rutgers offense has been turrible.

14 against Washington
13 against E. Michigan
17 against Nebraska
0 against Ohio St
14 against Purdue

They did score 35 against Illinois 2 weeks ago in Chris Ash's first Big 10 win. Nebraska only scored 28 against Illinois.

 

[umichgradfan]

So you fired Rich Rod too soon because there was left with a hell of a lot less than what Hoke left for Harbaugh. Michigan fans crying poor is like an NFL player complaining about tipping a pizza delivery guy.

Michigan did not fire Rich Rodriguez "too soon"--Michigan should have never hired him--just as Michigan State should not have hired John L. Smith or Bobby Williams. He was simply not a "fit" for the program in a number of ways. And, if RR was on the brink of success at Michigan, how is it that Hoke was left with such poor players?

The fact is that opposing fans just like to dig at Michigan fans in general and at Harbaugh in particular. Dantonio didn't win 10 games until his 4th year and then went 7-6 in his 6th year. My point is that CFB is an up-and-down business--ask Jimbo Fisher. Michigan is in the Harbaugh era for the long haul much as opposing fans dislike him and would like to see him go. I suggest they don't hold their collective breath.

 

[umichgradfan]

What coach was fired without serious holes on their team that was not fired for something that happened off the field? There is a reason why the previous was fired. No coach walks into a loaded at every position when the previous coach was fired. Most coaches aren't given a free pass on there third year because "there were serious holes". Michigan is not special.

Really? Urban Meyer.

 

[7Samurai13]

Really? Urban Meyer.

The previous coach was fired for reasons other than football results. That was we were talking about in the conversation.

 

[7Samurai13]

Michigan did not fire Rich Rodriguez "too soon"--Michigan should have never hired him--just as Michigan State should not have hired John L. Smith or Bobby Williams. He was simply not a "fit" for the program in a number of ways. And, if RR was on the brink of success at Michigan, how is it that Hoke was left with such poor players?

The fact is that opposing fans just like to dig at Michigan fans in general and at Harbaugh in particular. Dantonio didn't win 10 games until his 4th year and then went 7-6 in his 6th year. My point is that CFB is an up-and-down business--ask Jimbo Fisher. Michigan is in the Harbaugh era for the long haul much as opposing fans dislike him and would like to see him go. I suggest they don't hold their collective breath.

Such poor players? Hoke went 11-2 and won the Sugar Bowl year one. Hoke has one of only three seasons where Michigan has two or less losses for Michigan over the last twenty five years. Poor players?

Why do Michigan fans keep comparing Harbaugh to Dantonio considering the two were starting in two completely different places and Michigan State is not anywhere near the same branding as Michigan.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Such poor players? Hoke went 11-2 and won the Sugar Bowl year one. Hoke has one of only three seasons where Michigan has two or less losses for Michigan over the last twenty five years. Poor players?

Let's be fair, that 12 win season was a product of an easy schedule and Denard Robinson's ability to improvise.

 

[7Samurai13]

Let's be fair, that 12 win season was a product of an easy schedule and Denard Robinson's ability to improvise.

So it wasn't poor players, it was poor coaching. Michigan fans seem to just expect to be a top five recruiting every single season like it's some sort of birth right and if it's not it's a scape goat for the next coach because they can't possibly compete with only two top ten classes.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

So it wasn't poor players, it was poor coaching. Michigan fans seem to just expect to be a top five recruiting every single season like it's some sort of birth right and if it's not it's a scape goat for the next coach because they can't possibly compete with only two top ten classes.

It was 1 good player and bad coaching. There were also a lot of bad players on that team.

 

[umichgradfan]

Such poor players? Hoke went 11-2 and won the Sugar Bowl year one. Hoke has one of only three seasons where Michigan has two or less losses for Michigan over the last twenty five years. Poor players?

Why do Michigan fans keep comparing Harbaugh to Dantonio considering the two were starting in two completely different places and Michigan State is not anywhere. Ear the same branding as Michigan.

You are the one who said RR left Hoke nothing--"a hell of a lot less than what Hoke left for Harbaugh."

So you fired Rich Rod too soon because there was left with a hell of a lot less than what Hoke left for Harbaugh. Michigan fans crying poor is like an NFL player complaining about tipping a pizza delivery guy.

 

[7Samurai13]

It was 1 good player and bad coaching. There were also a lot of bad players on that team.

Unless you are Alabama, you are going to have a lot of bad players on it. Again the entitlement of Michigan fans is through the roof. You fired the previous coach for a reason. In year three you shouldn't still be blaming the previous regime unless there was major NCAA sanctions from it.

 

[7Samurai13]

You are the one who said RR left Hoke nothing--"a hell of a lot less than what Hoke left for Harbaugh."

Yes Hoke left a hell of a lot more than Rich Rod left but it wasn't like Hoke was walking into Michigan State after JLS left.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Unless you are Alabama, you are going to have a lot of bad players on it. Again the entitlement of Michigan fans is through the roof. You fired the previous coach for a reason. In year three you shouldn't still be blaming the previous regime unless there was major NCAA sanctions from it.

I don't think we can blame the previous regime for many things. But just like Hoke's recruiting was one of the reasons we had two good seasons in a row, it's also partially to blame for some of our offensive woes this year; and in the first two seasons. Until the line develops from Harbaugh's first two full classes, we're going to struggle there. And that's the core to any offense.

Now, the QB, RB and WR struggles are on Harbaugh but made worse by not having a good line to put them behind.

 

[umichgradfan]

Yes Hoke left a hell of a lot more than Rich Rod left but it wasn't like Hoke was walking into Michigan State after JLS left.

So, you go with whatever fits the narrative you want to put forward for Michigan. Michigan fans DO expect their coaches to recruit well--it's not an "entitlement"--it's an imperative for future success. Michigan has had two excellent classes under Harbaugh. Also, Harbaugh did not have a 10+ win season until his 4th year at Stanford. The vast majority of Michigan fans are patient and are not likely to give up on Harbaugh this early in his tenure much as opposing fans would love that outcome.

 

[7Samurai13]

So, you go with whatever fits the narrative you want to put forward for Michigan. Michigan fans DO expect their coaches to recruit well--it's not an "entitlement"--it's an imperative for future success. Michigan has had two excellent classes under Harbaugh. Also, Harbaugh did not have a 10+ win season until his 4th year at Stanford. The vast majority of Michigan fans are patient and are not likely to give up on Harbaugh this early in his tenure much as opposing fans would love that outcome.

And it's fine that you are patient and absolutely they shouldn't be looking to fire him or anywhere close to it. But it seems all we see here from Michigan fans is blame Hoke for everything because he didn't have five star recruits sitting two deep at every position because that's why Harbaugh is allowed to have an 8-4 or 7-5 third season. No one could possibly compete without top ten classes every single year. There are going to be major holes in every single team when the previous coach was fired for lack of football results.

 

[umichgradfan]

And it's fine that you are patient and absolutely they shouldn't be looking to fire him or anywhere close to it. But it seems all we see here from Michigan fans is blame Hoke for everything because he didn't have five star recruits sitting two deep at every position because that's why Harbaugh is allowed to have an 8-4 or 7-5 third season. No one could possibly compete without top ten classes every single year. There are going to be major holes in every single team when the previous coach was fired for lack of football results.

You haven't seen me make that argument as I have said before. You probably need to stop obsessing over what some Michigan fans say about Hoke's lack of coaching prowess. You seem to think Hoke left Harbaugh a lot to work with. Well, Harbaugh "is allowed" to have less than ten wins because most fans understand that's the nature of CFB. As you note, "No one could possibly compete without top ten classes every single year. There are going to be major holes in every single team when the previous coach was fired for lack of football results." In Michigan's case, one of the "major holes" is a weak offensive line. So, Harbaugh has to deal with that situation.

 

[ericd7633]

Michigan did not fire Rich Rodriguez "too soon"--Michigan should have never hired him--just as Michigan State should not have hired John L. Smith or Bobby Williams. He was simply not a "fit" for the program in a number of ways. And, if RR was on the brink of success at Michigan, how is it that Hoke was left with such poor players?

The fact is that opposing fans just like to dig at Michigan fans in general and at Harbaugh in particular. Dantonio didn't win 10 games until his 4th year and then went 7-6 in his 6th year. My point is that CFB is an up-and-down business--ask Jimbo Fisher. Michigan is in the Harbaugh era for the long haul much as opposing fans dislike him and would like to see him go. I suggest they don't hold their collective breath.

Hoke's two best seasons were predominately with RR's players. Then Hoke tried to turn Gardner into something he wasn't and it went to shit. If RR was able to let it ride out into 2011, odds are he has the same success, and the transition going from Robinson to Gardner would have been easier, given the offense.