Ben Simmons formally demands trade

[fightinfunbags]

Getting a couple of firsts so you have the ammo if dame or beal become available, plus some other pieces that fit embiid better is a decent result

The minute the Sixers move Simmons they are out on either a Dame or Beal move. They don’t have the assets after that to compete with other contenders that would be in on those guys. Simmons has a salary match and Sixers can bolster with young kids like Thybulle and Maxey. Once Simmons goes the salary match is Tobias Harris and if Wizards or Blazers are rebuilding after parting with a star, they aren’t going to have much value for a vet, 3rd option like Harris. Harris is like a final piece guy for a group that’s close but they need a third dude to get them over the top.

 

[flyerhawk]

Who closes on that team? That’s where Embiid needs help and what the Sixers lack. That’s why they need a Dame or Beal. They need a guy who can take control down the stretch and get buckets consistently when the defense knows it’s coming. At times, Embiid and Harris have been able to do this but not consistently. That’s why I don’t think the Sac deal makes them a true contender. Just my opinion.

But if they aren't available, then what? I would love to trade Simmons for either one and throw in just about anything else we need to but neither player is on the market.

Maybe if either team goes in the toilet early things change but that's a pretty big risk IF there is a deal along the lines of Hield/Halliburton available. Otherwise, the Sixers would be best served waiting until the market loosens up.

 

[fightinfunbags]

True to a point. They may see how Ben is acting, but they also won't forget that things started turning ugly when the organizations best player and head coach threw him under the bus and the FO never corrected them or tried to walk anything back.

But they definitely come off better than they would if Ben acted like an adult.

Things were trending ugly long before Doc spoke up. We just weren’t privy to it. Apparently, Simmons pouted when Brown gave Butler ball handling duties in the Kawhi Toronto year. Coddling Simmons is why Butler wasn’t brought back.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Rubio- perfect backup point guard for an playoff bound team. Can trust him to get Embiid the ball- something they simply dont have right now and have not had, maybe since Embiid has been there.

Markenen- another sharp shooter that can drain a 3- can play the 3 or the 4

Sexton- the guard that can easily give them 20 a game and can close.

1st round pick- top protected something like top 3 or top 5.

to me, it just makes too much sense considering what else is out there. But we shall see.

 

[flyerhawk]

Sexton can close on offense.

he really can. I think he would be the perfect fit if Beal or Dame are not available. The guy can get 22 points in his sleep while being efficient.

I would be open to a deal involving the Cavs but it couldn't just be Sexton. And from a cap perspective it would either need to be Sexton and Love, who has negative trade value, or a collection of other assets.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Rubio, Markenen, Sexton, 1st round pick.

get it done!

Meh on Rubio. I’d prefer Okoro. I’d also prefer Garland over Sexton personally but it seems like Garland instead of Sexton would be a deal breaker for the Cavs. I love Okoro’s upside though.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I would be open to a deal involving the Cavs but it couldn't just be Sexton. And from a cap perspective it would either need to be Sexton and Love, who has negative trade value, or a collection of other assets.

Markenen and Rubio get you there.

Osman is a useful salary piece to- and can play the wing and shoot a little which everyone needs and he is only signed for a year.

 

[flyerhawk]

Rubio- perfect backup point guard for an playoff bound team. Can trust him to get Embiid the ball- something they simply dont have right now and have not had, maybe since Embiid has been there.

Markenen- another sharp shooter that can drain a 3- can play the 3 or the 4

Sexton- the guard that can easily give them 20 a game and can close.

1st round pick- top protected something like top 3 or top 5.

to me, it just makes too much sense considering what else is out there. But we shall see.

Rubio doesn't make a lot of sense for the Sixers if they have Maxey and Sexton. Markenen can't be trade until whenever that first date in the season. Sexton and Markenen is a reasonable starting point.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Meh on Rubio. I’d prefer Okoro. I’d also prefer Garland over Sexton personally but it seems like Garland instead of Sexton would be a deal breaker for the Cavs. I love Okoro’s upside though.

I really like Okoro's upside too.

I am afraid if a deal does happen he would have to be in it.

 

[fightinfunbags]

PG: Garland
SG: Okoro
SF: Simmons
PF: Mobley
C: Allen

Why the fuck would you play a guy who doesn’t want to shoot at the 3? Sounds pretty dumb. If he’s not going to be a 1, he’s a 4 or 5. I think the Cavs are loaded at those positions. If it’s me and I’m the Cavs, he’s my 1 alongside Garland at the 2 and Okoro at the 3.

 

[fightinfunbags]

But if they aren't available, then what? I would love to trade Simmons for either one and throw in just about anything else we need to but neither player is on the market.

Maybe if either team goes in the toilet early things change but that's a pretty big risk IF there is a deal along the lines of Hield/Halliburton available. Otherwise, the Sixers would be best served waiting until the market loosens up.

It may be best available. I was pushing back on your projection that they’re a conference finals team. I disagree. They lose defense and they don’t pick up that closing piece they need. It’s essentially a net push in my eyes unless Halliburton can take his game next level.

Also on this Sac discussion…fuck Bagley. He has no role on a Sixers team with Harris.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Why the fuck would you play a guy who doesn’t want to shoot at the 3? Sounds pretty dumb. If he’s not going to be a 1, he’s a 4 or 5. I think the Cavs are loaded at those positions. If it’s me and I’m the Cavs, he’s my 1 alongside Garland at the 2 and Okoro at the 3.

yah thats fine- i was just kinda listing them by height to be honest and how they would kind of guard defensively- which lineup wise, is almost more relevant these days.

they would be a little lite on shooting until Okoro and Mobley developed more- but it has a lot of potential on defense.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Meh on Rubio. I’d prefer Okoro. I’d also prefer Garland over Sexton personally but it seems like Garland instead of Sexton would be a deal breaker for the Cavs. I love Okoro’s upside though.

being able to develop Okoro and Thybulle on the wing and having that defensive depth on the wing would be very interesting to watch. Okoro started to show he can do some things on offense too. Its gonna take him time- but i think he gets there.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Rubio- perfect backup point guard for an playoff bound team. Can trust him to get Embiid the ball- something they simply dont have right now and have not had, maybe since Embiid has been there.

Markenen- another sharp shooter that can drain a 3- can play the 3 or the 4

Sexton- the guard that can easily give them 20 a game and can close.

1st round pick- top protected something like top 3 or top 5.

to me, it just makes too much sense considering what else is out there. But we shall see.

The Sixers haven’t struggled to get Embiid the ball. He has more post up touches than any guy in the league by a wide margin. Also, Rubio is a seek and find player for opposing offenses in the playoffs. Been there done that in guys named JJ Redick, Marco Belinelli, Seth Curry and Furkan Korkmaz. He would have to play with Curry. That’s two seek and find defenders for an offense to exploit vs your closing group. Curry is worth it because he gives elite shooting. Can’t have two of those guys though. I like Markk and think he’s a fit that can stretch the floor. But he also creates a Harris problem. He’s best at the 4. If either guy has to play the 3, they’re getting cooked by athletic wings. I also like Sexton and his efficiency but would prefer Garland’s pure bad ass speed to the rim.

 

[flyerhawk]

It may be best available. I was pushing back on your projection that they’re a conference finals team. I disagree. They lose defense and they don’t pick up that closing piece they need. It’s essentially a net push in my eyes unless Halliburton can take his game next level.

Also on this Sac discussion…fuck Bagley. He has no role on a Sixers team with Harris.

The Sixers were a few free throws away from the conference finals last year so even if Hield/Halliburton are a push, that still puts them as a conference finals level team.

Truth be told, the Sixers with Simmons are a better regular season team. The Sixers with Hield/Halliburton are a better playoff team. Hield is a 3 point sniper. Curry and Hield on the court offers to lethal 3 point shooters. Maxey and Halliburton offer an on ball threat.

Our transition offense would certainly be worse but I think the half court offense would be significantly better. Thus being a worse regular season team and better playoff team.

 

[The Q]

I would be open to a deal involving the Cavs but it couldn't just be Sexton. And from a cap perspective it would either need to be Sexton and Love, who has negative trade value, or a collection of other assets.

But he’s a fine matching salary to still be in play for dame or beal

 

[trojanfan12]

The thing is, the entire world watched him refuse to dunk the ball from underneath the basket. They all saw him shoot 31% from the stripe. And to be honest, if I had to guess I would say that Ben's image across the league was not that great before these playoffs. He's a player with absurd God given abilities who is squandering it because whatever reason.

Ben is acting like he is the first player to ever be publicly criticized for shitting the bed. While I think that Doc screwed up and should have done more to walk back his statements, at the the same time, Ben needs to put his big boy pants on and take ownership ofhe reall his performance.

What has he done to show that he has learned and working to improve his game? Release another round of sizzle reels showing him take 3 pointers in an open gym?

Things were trending ugly long before Doc spoke up. We just weren’t privy to it. Apparently, Simmons pouted when Brown gave Butler ball handling duties in the Kawhi Toronto year. Coddling Simmons is why Butler wasn’t brought back.

That's kind of what I'm getting at. Both sides are providing ''unintentional cover'' for each other by their behavior. If Ben behaves like an adult and takes some ownership for his play, he makes the Sixers look worse than they already do.

And, if the Sixers had made a serious effort to walk back Doc's comments, they make Ben look worse than he already does.

Also, with few exceptions, when push comes to shove, players will typically back other players. So, even though they may think Ben is being a bitch, they're still more likely to put more of the blame on the Sixers.

 

[trojanfan12]

yah thats fine- i was just kinda listing them by height to be honest and how they would kind of guard defensively- which lineup wise, is almost more relevant these days.

they would be a little lite on shooting until Okoro and Mobley developed more- but it has a lot of potential on defense.

Offensively, you could have Mobley at the 3 and Simmons at the 4 and then switch them on defense.

 

[flyerhawk]

Also, with few exceptions, when push comes to shove, players will typically back other players. So, even though they may think Ben is being a bitch, they're still more likely to put more of the blame on the Sixers.

While I generally agree with this, I do think that this situation is one of those exceptions. Simmons is one of the highest paid players in the league. He is one of the most gifted players in the league. But his pouty attitude scuttled the Embiid/Butler era, got a coach fired, and is trying to get another coach fired.

Players back other players when it is a contract dispute. But players also have professional respect and don't respect softness.

 

[rmilia1]

I mean Simmons at this point is probably actually underrated for the first time in his life


He spent the rest of his career being dramatically overrated but after this last playoff tge narrative has flipped so far that the opposite is true now

That said just move him fir the most you can get and be done with it. No point in messing around