Baseball: Old Timey NL or the AL game?

[moxie]

At what point in the season do we first get to look at Pitchers OBPs? Or are you thinking of an AB minimum that needs to be reached?

I've been wondering, when was the last time a position other than P was DHd for? Has it ever happened? Can it even happen?

I don't think it's allowed. DH can only hit for the pitcher.

 

[broncosmitty]

I don't think it's allowed. DH can only hit for the pitcher.

I was wondering if it was a rule. (My brain is tuned to high school rules this time of year. Courtesy runners en sech. But e'rybody can be DH'd for there.)

 

[moxie]

I was wondering if it was a rule. (My brain is tuned to high school rules this time of year. Courtesy runners en sech. But e'rybody can be DH'd for there.)

Pinch running/hitting for the DH is allowed, but the initial line up card has to show the DH hitting for the pitcher. Of course, I could be reading it wrong
Rule 6.10
6.10
Any League may elect to use the Designated Hitter Rule.
(a) In the event of inter-league competition between clubs of Leagues using the Designated Hitter Rule and clubs of Leagues not using the Designated Hitter Rule, the rule will be used as follows:
1. In World Series or exhibition games, the rule will be used or not used as is the practice of the home team.
2. In All-Star games, the rule will only be used if both teams and both Leagues so agree.
(b) The Rule provides as follows:
A hitter may be designated to bat for the starting pitcher and all subsequent pitchers in any game without otherwise affecting the status of the pitcher(s) in the game. A Designated Hitter for the pitcher must be selected prior to the game and must be included in the lineup cards presented to the Umpire in Chief.
The designated hitter named in the starting lineup must come to bat at least one time, unless the opposing club changes pitchers.
It is not mandatory that a club designate a hitter for the pitcher, but failure to do so prior to the game precludes the use of a Designated Hitter for that game.
Pinch hitters for a Designated Hitter may be used. Any substitute hitter for a Designated Hitter becomes the Designated Hitter. A replaced Designated Hitter shall not re-enter the game in any capacity.
The Designated Hitter may be used defensively, continuing to bat in the same position in the batting order, but the pitcher must then bat in the place of the substituted defensive player, unless more than one substitution is made, and the manager then must designate their spots in the batting order.
A runner may be substituted for the Designated Hitter and the runner assumes the role of Designated Hitter. A Designated Hitter may not pinch run.
A Designated Hitter is “locked” into the batting order. No multiple substitutions may be made that will alter the batting rotation of the Designated Hitter.
Once the game pitcher is switched from the mound to a defensive position this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game.
Once a pinch hitter bats for any player in the batting order and then enters the game to pitch, this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game.
Once the game pitcher bats for the Designated Hitter this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game. (The game pitcher may only pinch-hit for the Designated Hitter.)
Once a Designated Hitter assumes a defensive position this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game. A substitute for the Designated Hitter need not be announced until it is the Designated Hitter’s turn to bat.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Pinch running/hitting for the DH is allowed, but the initial line up card has to show the DH hitting for the pitcher. Of course, I could be reading it wrong
Rule 6.10
6.10
Any League may elect to use the Designated Hitter Rule.
(a) In the event of inter-league competition between clubs of Leagues using the Designated Hitter Rule and clubs of Leagues not using the Designated Hitter Rule, the rule will be used as follows:
1. In World Series or exhibition games, the rule will be used or not used as is the practice of the home team.
2. In All-Star games, the rule will only be used if both teams and both Leagues so agree.
(b) The Rule provides as follows:
A hitter may be designated to bat for the starting pitcher and all subsequent pitchers in any game without otherwise affecting the status of the pitcher(s) in the game. A Designated Hitter for the pitcher must be selected prior to the game and must be included in the lineup cards presented to the Umpire in Chief.
The designated hitter named in the starting lineup must come to bat at least one time, unless the opposing club changes pitchers.
It is not mandatory that a club designate a hitter for the pitcher, but failure to do so prior to the game precludes the use of a Designated Hitter for that game.
Pinch hitters for a Designated Hitter may be used. Any substitute hitter for a Designated Hitter becomes the Designated Hitter. A replaced Designated Hitter shall not re-enter the game in any capacity.
The Designated Hitter may be used defensively, continuing to bat in the same position in the batting order, but the pitcher must then bat in the place of the substituted defensive player, unless more than one substitution is made, and the manager then must designate their spots in the batting order.
A runner may be substituted for the Designated Hitter and the runner assumes the role of Designated Hitter. A Designated Hitter may not pinch run.
A Designated Hitter is “locked” into the batting order. No multiple substitutions may be made that will alter the batting rotation of the Designated Hitter.
Once the game pitcher is switched from the mound to a defensive position this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game.
Once a pinch hitter bats for any player in the batting order and then enters the game to pitch, this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game.
Once the game pitcher bats for the Designated Hitter this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game. (The game pitcher may only pinch-hit for the Designated Hitter.)
Once a Designated Hitter assumes a defensive position this move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for the remainder of the game. A substitute for the Designated Hitter need not be announced until it is the Designated Hitter’s turn to bat.

i know ive seen a DH hit for a non pitcher...

 

[moxie]

i know ive seen a DH hit for a non pitcher...

Did I interpret Rule 6.10 wrong then?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

At what point in the season do we first get to look at Pitchers OBPs? Or are you thinking of an AB minimum that needs to be reached?

I've been wondering, when was the last time a position other than P was DHd for? Has it ever happened? Can it even happen?

I guess it would be previous season based or 20 AB...

They would never DH catcher, UNLESS a team carries 3 catchers...

 

[Rock Strongo]

Did I interpret Rule 6.10 wrong then?

no idea

but i could have SWORN id seen it before.

 

[broncosmitty]

no idea

but i could have SWORN id seen it before.

Me too.

But it looks like the rule states that we couldn't have. Maybe it's changed?

 

[moxie]

I'm thinking it was a situation where the DH was pinch ran/hit or played defense so then the pitcher had to hit, making it look like the DH was in for someone else?

 

[Rock Strongo]

Me too.

But it looks like the rule states that we couldn't have. Maybe it's changed?

this is bugging me now

i KNOW ive seen it

 

[moxie]

this is bugging me now

i KNOW ive seen it

Well, start clickety clacking away in the googly machine, but until you yourself can understand your venerated DH rule, you should go back to liking Old Timey NL rules.

 

[Tharvot]

I enjoy both. I like the fact that having a pitcher at the end of the lineup forces the manager to make a lot more strategic decisions throughout the game. But, I also like the AL lineups that don't have an automatic out in the 9-spot.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Well, start clickety clacking away in the googly machine, but until you yourself can understand your venerated DH rule, you should go back to liking Old Timey NL rules.

maybe this is what im thinking of?

The Phantom DH
The DH listed in the starting line-up must bat at least once before being substituted, unless there is an injury or the opposite team's starting pitcher has been changed. This rule was added after the 1980 season to close a loophole discovered by Oriolesmanager Earl Weaver: he would list one of his inactive starting pitchers in the starting line-up as a phantom DH, and then, when his first time to bat came up, Weaver could decide which of a number of players to use as a pinch hitter for his DH, depending on the situation (for example if there were men on base, if he needed a baserunner, etc). Pitchers Steve Stone and Dennis Martinezwere used most often in this capacity. Boxscores from that time would list the pitchers as having played a game at DH, but after the amendment to the rule was adopted, these "appearances" were erased from these pitchers' records.

 

[Rock Strongo]

i found this oddity:

What a team could do if they had a pitcher with sufficient value as a DH though is the have him DH and then allow him to pitch, perhaps in a closer type role. Though rule 15 indicate that he would not be allowed to warm up in the bullpen:

15 The Designated Hitter may not sit in the bullpen unless serving as a catcher in the bullpen

 

[podsox]

The DH is way better imo. The entire strategy stuff is overrated and who goes to games to watch the managers? Watching pitchers do something they absolutely suck at is the equivalent of forcing quarterbacks to be their teams field goal kicker.

 

[tducey]

Option 3 for me.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

I think there are pros and cons to both sides. Someone had a point about will another DH be introduced to hit for catchers? I thought that was interesting. At one time, football players played "both sides of the ball," now they don't. Could baseball end up the same way? I don't know, but the DH is certainly the first step in that direction.

On the other hand, watching pitchers hit bores the shit out of me and, generally speaking, I am a weak-minded person who can't grasp the beauty and intricacy of the game as it is meant to be played.

Ultimately, I really don't give a fuck either way.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

How about enforcing these 2 rules

ALL Hitters with an OPS of 800 or higher MUST play defense in 30% of their games

ALL pitchers who have an OBP of .300 or Higher MUST not be DH'd for

Numbers are based on previous season OR current statistics...

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

How about enforcing these 2 rules

ALL Hitters with an OPS of 800 or higher MUST play defense in 30% of their games

ALL pitchers who have an OBP of .300 or Higher MUST not be DH'd for

Numbers are based on previous season OR current statistics...

That's a great idea. Wouldn't be too complicated at all...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

That's a great idea. Wouldn't be too complicated at all...

I know it would be complicated, but I do think it would help fix some of the flaws of the DH, or lack of DH...